FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[AlanSubie4Life]

Adjusting it manually as I did in V11 works fine for me and better than Auto.

To be clear, it does not work like it worked in v11.

I totally believe it could be better than ASSO/Auto though. (Specifically because manual allows limiting max speed.)

 

[TK211X]

There's not much to talk about really until the next version pops.

 

[lzolman]

Used FSD all the way from work to home today 33 miles no disengagements, I like it

Took me awhile to get to the point of trusting it, maybe 3 weeks of using it short distances

I don't believe it ever even occurred to me that I'd ever be able to trust FSD, at least while it's an L2 system. I'm wondering if I've ever used that term. I don't even ask to be able to trust it, I just ask to be able to somewhat relax. I can remain fully attentive of course (I'm a motorcycle rider) but not if I'm constantly tense. No thanks. I'm not risking anyone else's life or limb, or property damage, unless FSDS's rate of failure improves a lot in New England. I would not at all be surprised that a training regimen to address N.E. would need to be a targeted effort, and it hasn't happened yet.

That, at least, is my hope.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Stopped for rabbits on my street for me today. I think @sleepydoc harbors animus to the Lagomorph order.

Admittedly they were right there in broad daylight in the road scampering about in an obvious fashion. Less challenging than the famous inaugural opossum.

 

[gottagofast]

I don't believe it ever even occurred to me that I'd ever be able to trust FSD, at least while it's an L2 system. I'm wondering if I've ever used that term. I don't even ask to be able to trust it, I just ask to be able to somewhat relax. I can remain fully attentive of course (I'm a motorcycle rider) but not if I'm constantly tense. No thanks. I'm not risking anyone else's life or limb, or property damage, unless FSDS's rate of failure improves a lot in New England. I would not at all be surprised that a training regimen to address N.E. would need to be a targeted effort, and it hasn't happened yet.

That, at least, is my hope.

I just have to remind myself that i can turn it off anytime i want to, that helped me get more comfortable

 

[TK211X]

Stopped for rabbits on my street for me today. I think @sleepydoc harbors animus to the Lagomorph order.

Admittedly they were right there in broad daylight in the road scampering about in an obvious fashion. Less challenging than the famous inaugural opossum.

Sesquipedalian fetishist.

 

[Ben W]

I asked @elon for these two a few years back, Hypermiler just as a drive mode.. haven’t heard back. ;-0

Several times I've requested a related feature, which is for the car to track Watt-Hours per Passenger Mile as a metric, using the seat sensors to detect occupancy. (And relatedly, to have an "Adaptive" HOV-lane-usage setting which auto-detects the number of passengers.) Maybe one of these years!

 

[Ben W]

How long before I can complain about being stuck on 12.3.3?

*Waits for 12.4*

It is the year 2060. Tesla Model 47 owners with FSD-Really-Not-Beta-Anymore-We-Mean-It are complaining about being stuck on v77.4.8, because of its tendency to curb its hypersonic actuators. Elon's head-in-a-jar claims emphatically that Robotaxi will seriously absolutely be ready any day now.

 

[bdwalters]

Does anybody think the quality of FSD varies by location? There are a ton of Teslas in Austin, for example, so a bunch of the training data invariably came from here. California in general would be a similar story. Does it work better in Tesla heavy areas than less Tesla heavy ones? I’ve been shocked at how well it works. I wonder if someone in west Texas would have the same experience.

 

[Todd Burch]

Does anybody think the quality of FSD varies by location? There are a ton of Teslas in Austin, for example, so a bunch of the training data invariably came from here. California in general would be a similar story. Does it work better in Tesla heavy areas than less Tesla heavy ones? I’ve been shocked at how well it works. I wonder if someone in west Texas would have the same experience.

Currently, yes. I think it boils a lot down to mapping quality and of course video training. Currently I think FSD12 is overfit to California data, likely due to the fact that the engineers were trying to prove out the concept as they worked on it locally in California. The rollout clearly significantly preferred California drivers.

But I think now that it’s proven out so well, more data from other locales will eliminate the overfitting. I also think that Tesla may now get some more bandwidth to start working on some of the mapping issues.

 

[Ben W]

To be clear, I do think that a major next step for FSD can and should include a much greater capability to recognize and respond to signs.

As well as road markings. One of the most common failures of FSD (including v12.3.3, happened to me today) is poor lane selection; e.g. getting in a clearly-marked left-turn-only lane when the nav says go straight. Even the visualizer shows the left-turn-only marking, yet the car persists. It's really surprising to me that they haven't fixed this; seems like low-hanging fruit.

 

[bhakan]

Stopped for rabbits on my street for me today. I think @sleepydoc harbors animus to the Lagomorph order.

Admittedly they were right there in broad daylight in the road scampering about in an obvious fashion. Less challenging than the famous inaugural opossum.

I have to check that out as there are too many crossing the road looking for the best gourmet salad. Wonder if it will stop for the squirrels next.

 

[AudreyHTX1]

Does anybody think the quality of FSD varies by location? There are a ton of Teslas in Austin, for example, so a bunch of the training data invariably came from here. California in general would be a similar story. Does it work better in Tesla heavy areas than less Tesla heavy ones? I’ve been shocked at how well it works. I wonder if someone in west Texas would have the same experience.

Down here in way south Texas FSDS did very well in spite of not having that many Teslas compared to some other parts of the state.

 

[Peter N]

Is FSD capable of honking to alert another car that drifts too close or tries to change lanes without looking?

I don't think so. I wish it were.

 

[swedge]

As better as it is, and that’s BETTER not perfect… the wife meter still says “please, turn it off and just YOU drive”..

Highway 17 today was a nail biter today.. I’m still surprised I still have two functioning LEFT wheels.

Better, is not NEAR perfect, and certainly no RT.

My question or litmus test for ppls REAL impression of FSD is going to be this:

Would you put yourself and your six year old child in the BACKSEAT at 07:30 local time, strapped in and let this drive you from HOME to a major metro airport, with streets, on-ramps, highways, off ramps and congestion traveling ~ 20-30 miles in total without concern.

Of COURSE this is not now, but that would be my real test.. this would of course be something L3+, which we don’t have, but frankly this is the type of thing that RT is going to REQUIRE - and we’re still a long way from that.

Back before they merged freeways into FSD, on CA 17 between Santa Cruz and San Jose, it would switch between FSD and standard AutoPilot. As we understand it, V12 switches to th V11 stack on freeways. If the same map data is still used, this would suggest that Hwy 17 uses V11 or 12 at various points along the way. The curvy stretch has some crossings at grade, hence the non-freeway designation. That curvy section may well have V12 active now, but I have yet to verify that. (Auto speed setting has a different annotation when V12 is active which changes when V11 kicks in.)

I was pretty amazed at how well V11 did on Hwy 17. Two lanes each way, twisty, hilly, 50 mph speed limit, but locals drive much of it at 65. Concrete divider 'cause folks used to drift into oncoming lanes with regular fatal results. And then there are the trucks doing 45 uphill messing up the flow, argh.... And then it is a dead stop and go drag on Sunday evenings when the beach traffic all heads home at sunset.

AP was not good at the turns, V11 much better. But it is a nail biter at the best of times.

 

[Ben W]

There's not much to talk about really until the next version pops.

Evergreen sentiment, apart from talking about the state of FSD in general. I haven't yet had a "Version XYZ completely solves the ABC issue" epiphany; the closest would probably be v12's lack of steering-wheel jerkiness during turns, though I still see it a little bit from time to time. My own experience with v12.3.3 is that it's perhaps marginally better than earlier v12 versions, but subtle enough that it could just be placebo effect. It still makes a lot of the same mistakes; it's exceptionally timid at times (like getting to an empty intersection and waiting for 20 seconds before making a turn), still wants to drive painfully slowly (even though I have it on manual-speed mode with the Assertive setting), still gets into the wrong lane a lot (today it tried to turn left from a clearly marked go-straight-only lane), and yesterday got into a no-mans-land diagonally-striped not-a-lane while approaching a road split (not a freeway, so I think still on v12), heading straight for the gore point, though it braked in time and merged itself back into a proper lane. It also still sometimes thinks shoulders are real lanes. And today it completely botched a perfectly ordinary parallel-parking job, though the car does have USS (2022 MY, HW3), so perhaps pure vision would have done it better. It also still often complains about camera occlusions in poor lighting, even though I've ensured that the cameras are not dirty. (This happens on both my cars, so I don't think it's a bad camera issue.) All that said, I do think that the end-to-end neural network is the "right" approach, and will eventually hit a far higher local maximum than the v11 approach, perhaps even to the point where it's limited more by hardware than by software.

Still, in my opinion, Tesla is wildly jumping the gun to be pushing FSD so hard at this point. It still needs a couple orders of magnitude improvement (one necessary intervention per hundred or thousand miles, instead of every 1-5 miles) before I'd call it ready for that. I could see the current hardware perhaps reaching L3 on the highway, but zero chance of L4 or L5 or Robotaxi. I'd still like to upgrade my 2017 M3 to a new MS at some point, but will probably wait for HW5, whenever that happens. Bidirectional charging and faster-charging structural pack would be nice, too. What's on your wishlist?

 

[JHCCAZ]

Is FSD capable of honking to alert another car that drifts too close or tries to change lanes without looking?

I don't think so. I wish it were.

So, it can Fart for funnies, but cannot Toot for traffic.

Something for the Tesla engineers to ponder.

 

[lb92677]

I got 12.3.3 on my Model S. Very smooth overall, handles speed bumps and a roundabout with ease. The new end to end AI release is amazing. I intervened at stop signs ( to accelerate quicker due to NHTSA complete stop requirement). There was an ambulance and I wanted to make sure it stayed stopped so I disengaged. I also parked in the parking lot myself. For supervised FSD, it is already really good on HW3. I am feeling good about including FSD in my car loan. Driiving the car is tranformed. I can drive it myself or relax and let the FSD drive , all I have to do is manage it. No other car sold in the US has anything like this, where it drives anywhere on both streets. roads and the freeway.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Still, in my opinion, Tesla is wildly jumping the gun to be pushing FSD so hard at this point.

I think a key motivation for the free trial isn't widely appreciated:

...Elon wanted to push it [wide] using the free trial program. Far too many people on TMC have missed this point, thinking that it's all about a revenue pump, and that Elon expects the take rate will skyrocket overnight. This timing is all about getting disengagement data and real world video plus telemetry.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In ASSO mode: (You can dial the invisible offset furiously too but that is not practical.)

I swear I have seen this work before but tonight I tried it in a few places and even though I dialed the offset down to 0mph it did nothing. I have seen others claim this too.

Anyway, fact check: FALSE (sometimes at least)

Anyway a side issue since it was totally impractical anyway. Use manual mode. It’s just like ASSO but better. Which is not to say good.

Freeways the adjustment probably works in ASSO mode.