Are you an EAP user? If no and the monthly came down from $199 to $99 that is great news for you. I am an EAP user and had $99 per month for FSD so I would expect my cost to go down to $45 etc but it is still showing $99
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
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- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd hard and late braking fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
Are you an EAP user? If no and the monthly came down from $199 to $99 that is great news for you. I am an EAP user and had $99 per month for FSD so I would expect my cost to go down to $45 etc but it is still showing $99
I just let google maps navigate using iPhone, and the stop signs in question were not displayed. At the same time, Tesla's nav map showed the stop signs on the same route.
My understand, from posts here on TMC is that Tesla combines data from at least two map sources for their navigation. Rout planning, if I remember, is done by yet a third source.
Especially with end-to-end, there's plenty of signs and other visual cues that 11.x visualizations don't show. It's a separate issue of whether 12.x understands and controls appropriately, but that should continuously improve with more disengagements and training.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
He said that autonomous safety features would be free. Convenience features have to be paid for.
If safety became dramatically higher with FSD, as proven by billions of miles of safety data, then it would be a safety feature and would be included.
This is fairly standard industry practice.
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I think this is very difficult to solve unless the car somehow develops a memory OR our reports actually go and update a DB somewhere.
Sometimes it's not a super-obvious pothole, but a big dip in the road or crappy road engineering that you can't see from further away, or a sunken sewer plate. The second time you travel that way, you'll try to avoid it, but FSD doesn't "learn" in this way unless Tesla does the update in the nav DB somehow.
Still, tire-busting potholes would seem to be low-hanging fruit so hopefully they can sort that out. The other thing they could do is not lock down the steering wheel so much so you can manoeuvre around obstacles like that without disengaging.
Interesting. Still not available here in Canada, but if it's $139 CAD, that's almost 10 years of self driving at the current $16,000 price.
Sue,My sweet summer child.... if AVs were to rely on crowd sourced reported map corrections the results would be unreliable. There's a reason why wikipedia is mocked as a source, it can be excellent and it can vandalized.
A dark side of comedy: the impact of John Oliver's 'fowl' jokes on Wikipedia – Wikimedia Foundation
After John Oliver called on the Internet to vandalize the Wikipedia biographies of US congressional representatives, Wikipedia's volunteer editors cleaned up the vandalism.wikimediafoundation.org
Crowd-sourcing to train FSD is questionable in my mind (I note TMCers who think driving over 100mph could be important for 'safety' and routinely driving at 90mph is a god given and responsible right/action in the US) but at least it isn't as if tesla drivers made a point of driving badly in order to sabotage the NN training. If we ask AVs to rely more on mapping data that is crowd sourced, that crowd sourcing needs to be from disengagement triggered recorded driver reporting, with either AI or a human confirming the car's video aligns with the disengagement report from the driver and tesla making the report to the mapping software company.
I agree, reporting to Google Maps can work. In my neighbourhood, once realizing Google Maps routed beach traffic onto my no-exit street and through our apartment building's surface parking lot, our local traffic committee put in a successful concerted effort of reporting from committee members, and me asking the landlord, as property owner, to report the error to Google. Signs by the city and landlord were ignored but the volume of traffic on summer weekends on the no-exit part of the street has dropped considerably now that the route remains on city streets. I'm willing to bet, though, a concerted effort by bad-actors would reroute things back again.
Google maps are not crowd sourced. For example, they use commercial satellite data for their Sat views, and drive their own vehicles around to capture their street views. One would expect those cars also ground-truth their base maps as well. Much of the base maps is from publicly available sources, though I don't know the details of all of Google's map sources. Input from users mostly relates to businesses and landmarks, though they do accept and manually curate corrections, such as road closures and other map errors.
Google is not comparable to Wikipedia. Google is a very profitable company, based largely on advertising revenue. They source and own their own map data. Wikipedia, in contrast, is a non-profit, and all the content is sourced from volunteers. But even the Wiki is not completely mob ruled: Scientology, for example was banned from contributing after their content edits were found to be un reliable and propagandistic. In addition, volunteer editors generally police others' contributions, and insist that content be based on sources published elsewhere and explicitly referenced in the Wiki articles.
My understanding is that OpenStreetMap.org does have a large crowd-sourced input, but that Tesla does not use OSM in it's navigation maps. For example, a couple corrections I have posted to OSM did not propagate into Tesla's nav.
Fleet-sourcing map data from Tesla cars does seem like a good idea. For example, those two removed but still mapped stop signs I mentioned before caused FSD v11 to come to a stop in spite of the stop signs having been removed months earlier. V12.x on the other hand, slows but does not stop. This counts as a real improvement in V12 in my book, using the map to look ahead, but making decisions based on what is really there.
This also means that V12 could itself report the discrepancy between the map data and the reality. Perhaps this back-propagation should be human curated rather than leaving it to bot-crowd-sourcing, a sort of machine-network learning. (I am concerned that AI LLMs trained on the interweb are now publishing to the web, and next years AI will be trained, in part, on the BS generated by last year's AI's. Not a happy feedback loop, given the lies and hallucinations the AI's are know for.)
P.S. Summer is coming.
He also said FSD would increase in price as it got closer.
It's just Elon.
Remember last year when he said he could sell cars for nothing and make money on SaaS revenue too?
I dont think anyone should interpret that to be FSD will be free nor will it increase the cars value by 100k.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Like it matters.. burn
one in 3 weeks when they put you in the queue!!
.....but when does my car start appreciating like Elon said so I can sell it for more than I paid for it?
My Friend: Do you invest in stocks and bonds?
Me: No I'm buying Teslas to hold in my financial portfolio since they have a higher rate of return on my investment than any other investment.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
What the ??? Just checked mine... same thing... did they announce they were cutting price of fsd in half??
Today coming up to a HAWK and in right lane with a truck in the left lane. It was activated and Yellow and my car started slowing like it should. However when the double Red came on it stoped slowing down like it was going through it. I didn't look at screen but suspect the 2 Reds close to each other either looked like a Flasher or a RR crossing but not a Red Light. The pedestrian was hidden base of ornamental tress and then the truck on my left. So it appears it doesn't recognize a HAWK yet.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Good to know, never been a fan of Atlanta's Basketball
team.Guess FSD isn't either, and is programmed to mow them down.
Forget using the car's memory. Potholes come and go frequently with daily patching where I live. If I can avoid potholes then FSD should be able as well. The cameras are higher than my eyes which gives the camera an angle advantage. If FSD cannot solve potholes then there will be some section of roads in cold climates come the spring when FSD cannot be used. Sometimes that means crossing the center line to avoid potholes. That won't be acceptable to Elon. I have several road sections today that I simply disable FSD for a short stretch because of dangerous potholes. Cameras see better than I do, so hoping it's doable. Better be.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes. It just makes sense it will get cheaper over time.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Until it becomes FSD (unsupervised) later this year. Then it will become more expensive. It could even cost $100k!
The correct wording is FSD Unleashed
or FSD for Dummies
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mtndrew1
Active Member
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