HELP! I'm stuck in a snow storm

[MP3Mike]

@ELECTROMAN - glad you're home safe. If you don't mind a question or two... I am shocked by the pictures you shared! Does everyone in Oregon drive on summer tires?

Just how much snow was there, anyway?

Well some people put their studded tires on the first day they are legal, even if snow won't be coming for months. But most people just drive on their normal tires.

There was only 1-2" of snow, but I have to say the snow was different than what we normally get, it was way more slippery. It was more like powdered ice.

 

[ChrisPDX]

It took my wife 7 hours to get home that night because they kept closing Hwy 26. She took our MINI because it has snow tires, but of course she forgot to get gas before leaving that day. She normally drives our other EV which normally has a full charge each morning (how quickly she got spoiled by that). So her problem was running low on gas. While heat may be free on an ice car if moving, it's using energy when parked. So I had to constantly remind her to turn off the car when not moving. She made it back with about 1.5 gallons of gas left in the tank. If she idled the whole time, she would have run out before getting home. That snow was tricky stuff too. It may have only been a few inches, but even with snow tires, she did slide a bit going up that hill.

Now to the OP, I get to scold you like I scold my wife when it comes to using the heater in an EV. LOL The higher you sent the temperature, the more it uses battery power (to an almost exponential degree of increase). Making it a sauna in the car uses crazy amounts of power. Instead, use just the seat heater. If you can't do that, at least set the cabin heater to the mid 60s. Yes, it's not as toasty in the car, but it's not bitter cold and the seat heater can cover the rest. Just by setting the cabin heater to 10-15 degrees lower, saves a lot of power. I do this for regular driving too just because I don't like to waste so much electricity.

The good news is in the summer the AC is much more efficient. Combined with the warmer air being thinner and easier for the car to "push through", you get much better efficiency in 100 degree heat with AC blowing then you do with 32 degree weather with no heat at all. Crazy how it works.

 

[Rocky_H]

I got out the appropriate adapter and plugged it in. Didn't work, said I had a charging fault. I tried it a few more times and gave up. As I was hanging it up I spied a Tesla destination charger at the next parking spot over. I plugged it in and I was getting about 4 miles of charge per hour and I had some charging error message. So I got back out and shoved the connector in a little harder. Problem solved.

Yeah, that is something new owners may not be used to. Don't be gentle with it. Really use some authoritah when pushing that handle into the charging port. I've gotten that bad connection thing a couple of times when I didn't plug in with enough force.

Why doesn't regen work? My leaf regens just fine

This is probably for the same reason why early Leaf batteries were getting destroyed in Arizona summers. Leaf does not use any temperature control for their battery packs. So sure, they go ahead and let them regen and recharge the batteries when they are cold even though it is bad for them because they have no choice with no way to heat the pack. With the Tesla, it will keep regen at a reduced level, so it is recharging lightly while the pack is cold to avoid damaging the cells, and if it is really cold, it will have it all the way disabled until it gets a chance for the battery to get warmer.

This is not just a Tesla thing, either. I have a Zero electric motorcycle, and it does not have any temperature management for the battery, but it does have temperature sensors. If the bike has been out in below freezing temperatures and then you get home and plug it in, it will not start charging while the battery is cold to protect it. It just has to wait until the battery gets warmer before it will allow recharging to start.

 

[Villa-Lobos]

Wow lots of carnage! I also got down to single digits (3 miles)on my first trip last Janurary and was sweeting bullets. It is the best driving car in snow bar none. Glad you made it and wow what a response from this forum.

 

[Brass Guy]

...
Also, you should ensure you have range mode enabled, which descreases the energy usage of the heater but may still keep you warm enough.

... So unfortunately, on an 8 mile commute to work my car routinely uses 8 miles of range in the morning after being in a warm garage all night, but going home uses 15-16 miles of range after sitting outside in the cold all day...

IMO the big thing about range mode is the reduction (or elimination, still not sure) of battery heater usage. If you're driving 8 miles on a cold battery, you'll be using all that energy to heat up the battery but by the time you finish your drive it'll only be started warming. I always turn range mode on when driving a short distance in the cold, otherwise it is just a waste of energy.

 

[abasile]

Why doesn't regen work? My leaf regens just fine (it is very cold in Chicago right now (I mean we have 12" of snow and its like a relatively balmly 10F today)). I also was able to drive around 73 miles while it was 4F yesterday and seat warmers on (heat off)). I expect somewhat similar performance from my 60D (lets say 180 miles of range) but that's assuming regen works like it does on the leaf (and actually regens)). I have an attached 2.5 car garage so the car is about 27F when its this cold and begins its journey.

Wow, your LEAF battery must be newer and in better condition than ours, which has at least 25% capacity loss. The other day, with a battery temperature in roughly the 40s Fahrenheit (maybe 7C, or four battery temperature bars) and a relatively low battery (2-3 bars of charge remaining), my regen on the LEAF was maxing out at only 10-15 kW. Plus, the LEAF firmware has this really annoying "feature" that reduces available regen power (in kW) as the vehicle speed increases. This makes regen on our LEAF mostly useless for descending the mountain we live on, so nowadays we hardly ever use the LEAF when going "down the hill".

The regen on our 2012 Model S tends to be far more effective. While the Model S does limit regen when the battery is cold, preheating the car helps significantly, as this prompts the car to run its battery heater. It's also helpful, as with any EV, to finish charging shortly before driving because charging raises the battery temperature. While our "new to us" Model S hasn't yet experienced temperatures way below freezing, it's done great at regen so far. Even when charged as high as 80% or 85%, it's still able to regen all the way down our 4900' / 1500m mountain descent with scarcely a need to use the brake pedal.

 

[Mickie]

+1 for OP's music selection, post #38 . Glad you got home and dry, safe.

 

[Brass Guy]

Wow, your LEAF battery must be newer and in better condition than ours, which has at least 25% capacity loss. The other day, with a battery temperature in roughly the 40s Fahrenheit (maybe 7C, or four battery temperature bars) and a relatively low battery (2-3 bars of charge remaining), my regen on the LEAF was maxing out at only 10-15 kW. Plus, the LEAF firmware has this really annoying "feature" that reduces available regen power (in kW) as the vehicle speed increases. This makes regen on our LEAF mostly useless for descending the mountain we live on, so nowadays we hardly ever use the LEAF when going "down the hill".

The regen on our 2012 Model S tends to be far more effective. While the Model S does limit regen when the battery is cold, preheating the car helps significantly, as this prompts the car to run its battery heater. It's also helpful, as with any EV, to finish charging shortly before driving because charging raises the battery temperature. While our "new to us" Model S hasn't yet experienced temperatures way below freezing, it's done great at regen so far. Even when charged as high as 80% or 85%, it's still able to regen all the way down our 4900' / 1500m mountain descent with scarcely a need to use the brake pedal.

Actually I believe that's a result of the math involved. Speed is a factor in how much power there is, so the maximum amount of regen feels lesser at higher speeds. This effect is also noticeable in Model S, but with 60kW regen there's substantial braking happening. If you watch the energy display in Model S as you slow down, when you hit about 40mph or so you hit max deceleration; then you'll see the regen slowly decline though you decelerate at the same rate.
Math guys chime in here...

 

[abasile]

Actually I believe that's a result of the math involved. Speed is a factor in how much power there is, so the maximum amount of regen feels lesser at higher speeds. This effect is also noticeable in Model S, but with 60kW regen there's substantial braking happening. If you watch the energy display in Model S as you slow down, when you hit about 40mph or so you hit max deceleration; then you'll see the regen slowly decline though you decelerate at the same rate.
Math guys chime in here...

As a math guy myself, I understand what you are saying. However, the LEAF is actually decreasing the regen power at higher speeds. This is shown on the energy screen, in units of kW. So if it is allowing 10 kW at 20 mph, it may drop all the way to 0 kW at 50 mph. And that occurs even if I choose to run the heater; it will not increase the available regen in accordance with the power demands of the car! I am not the only person to report this behavior, via the MyNissanLeaf.com forum, by the way.

 

[artsci]

Thank you everyone for your advise. I hope it warms up soon.

Great account of your predicament. Thanks for posting it and keeping us informed. I laughed about your experience driving by all of the ICEs stuck in the snow. Several time when we've had major snow storms I'm the only one in my neighborhood (which is quite hilly) who manages to navigate the snow with relative ease. This car is amazing in the snow.

 

[croman]

I have a 2014 Leaf and I haven't lost any range that I can detect (I still get around 120 miles of range (mix local and highway)) in summer and around 70 in the winter depending on wind). I certainly haven't lost any bars. I haven't used LeafSpy or other tools through the ODBII port to check but I get full 40kwh regen after the battery SoC drops below 90%. I don't experience any reduction in regen power as the speed increases (its actually the opposite since more speed = greater regen for me). I don't have mountains around me but my particular corner of IL is actually very hilly but not enough to get any significant regen.

Longest IL drive I've done was in July 122 miles and I BARELY made it. It was so nerve wracking my wife and I stopped halfway on the way back to charge and drive stress free (and fast, I only averaged 64mph on the way there).

When I get my S I plan on figuring out how to delay its start of charging to match when I start driving. It will also start preheating the cabin based on my schedule (which is fairly regular due to work).

 

[jquint]

IMO the big thing about range mode is the reduction (or elimination, still not sure) of battery heater usage. If you're driving 8 miles on a cold battery, you'll be using all that energy to heat up the battery but by the time you finish your drive it'll only be started warming. I always turn range mode on when driving a short distance in the cold, otherwise it is just a waste of energy.

Can't do that with my wife in the car!

 

[Brass Guy]

Can't do that with my wife in the car!

You can still heat the cabin ok, but you'll use less than half the energy. IIRC, both the cabin and battery heaters are 6kW max. That is each.

 

[sdorn]

I have a 2014 Leaf and I haven't lost any range that I can detect (I still get around 120 miles of range (mix local and highway)) in summer and around 70 in the winter depending on wind). I certainly haven't lost any bars. I haven't used LeafSpy or other tools through the ODBII port to check but I get full 40kwh regen after the battery SoC drops below 90%. I don't experience any reduction in regen power as the speed increases (its actually the opposite since more speed = greater regen for me). I don't have mountains around me but my particular corner of IL is actually very hilly but not enough to get any significant regen.

Longest IL drive I've done was in July 122 miles and I BARELY made it. It was so nerve wracking my wife and I stopped halfway on the way back to charge and drive stress free (and fast, I only averaged 64mph on the way there).

When I get my S I plan on figuring out how to delay its start of charging to match when I start driving. It will also start preheating the cabin based on my schedule (which is fairly regular due to work).

That's impressive. My 2015 Leaf wouldn't get anywhere near 122 miles. It's usually on 70% in the summer after my 22 mile commute to work, and then at 40% by the time I get back home. That comes out to about 74 miles of range. In the winter it is usually on about 65% after the commute in and 30% by the time I get back home, depending on how cold it is. It's always been that way though. I haven't noticed any degradation.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

so glad you made it home ELECTROMAN! it took me 6 + hours to get from beaverton to portland in that snow. l'm currently driving a jeep wrangler which was a total nightmare l have to say. Heat wouldn't work so l sat there freezing my ass off in gridlock traffic.
Roll on Feb! can't wait for my MX90D with winter package to arrive... ( not that we ever need it in Oregon) but times such as these really do make the difference

What?? You most certainly need the winter package.

It comes with the Steering wheel heater.

 

[artsci]

Good grief. In this area we deal with worse every other morning.

I was in Seattle for one winter years ago. I was astounded by how people living within spitting distance of the mountains could have so little understanding of how to drive in the snow. Two inches of snow and the city declares an emergency.

This is a problem everywhere. Most people are totally clueless about the technicalities of driving in the snow. How many time do you see people spinning their wheels furiously thinking that's the way to get traction? If a driver has finesse in the snow he or she will almost never get stuck.

 

[Aieukl378]

Thank you everyone for your advise. I hope it warms up soon.

Wow! Great story with a happy ending(for you anyway lol).

 

[jbcarioca]

This is a problem everywhere. Most people are totally clueless about the technicalities of driving in the snow. How many time do you see people spinning their wheels furiously thinking that's the way to get traction? If a driver has finesse in the snow he or she will almost never get stuck.

OT, I used to live in Tehran, and often went to the mountains in the winter. I agree, the same problem is everywhere. Still, nowhere have I felt less comfortable in snow than in Nepal. Ending my travelogue, in Moscow everyone knows and is prepared for snowy weather. Zero issue there. Of course none of those places have many EV's although the Moscow Tesla Club is very active, has a Supercharger and their own service center. Sorry for the digressions.

 

[croman]

That's impressive. My 2015 Leaf wouldn't get anywhere near 122 miles. It's usually on 70% in the summer after my 22 mile commute to work, and then at 40% by the time I get back home. That comes out to about 74 miles of range. In the winter it is usually on about 65% after the commute in and 30% by the time I get back home, depending on how cold it is. It's always been that way though. I haven't noticed any degradation.

My brother has a 2014 Leaf as well and his car also doesn't go quite as far on 100% charge as mine. I guess I am lucky. I also drive a lot more carefully if I know I HAVE to go longer distance. No jackrabbit starts (I love the leaf acceleration and I know its nothing compared to Tesla), no traveling above 70mph, no heat, no a/c, etc.). If I can travel at 50mph, the leaf will go over 110 miles on a single charge if ambient temp is above 50F (stop and go traffic actually means I could probably go even farther but that takes forever and sucks without TACC).

My wife and I are going to upstate NY in February and I'll be able to experience my first true long distance EV drive. I'll let everyone know how that goes and what I discovered about extending range (though ample information exists).

 

[Pollux]

OT, I used to live in Tehran, and often went to the mountains in the winter. I agree, the same problem is everywhere. Still, nowhere have I felt less comfortable in snow than in Nepal. Ending my travelogue, in Moscow everyone knows and is prepared for snowy weather. Zero issue there. Of course none of those places have many EV's although the Moscow Tesla Club is very active, has a Supercharger and their own service center. Sorry for the digressions.

Nepal? Do tell. I'd've imagined Nepal as a place where everyone had considerable experience with snow driving, if they drove at all.

Alan