Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

[TomServo]

This is an open and generic question directed towards ALL OTHER EV's. How do their built-in Nav systems route them to the 20+ independent charging networks? If you enter a destination what chargers will it select along the route? Do you need a separate account for each of them? Do they display info i.e. dining, bathrooms # of stalls available, site status i.e. INOP for some reason?

 

[voxel]

According to recent leaks, it looks like the supercharging network will be opened up to non Tesla’s soon. So that specific advantage when comparing the 2 might not exist for much longer.

I have a model Y on order and the supercharging network was a big selling point. If open to everyone then that expands my options and will have to reconsider and look into non Tesla’s a bit deeper.

Every time I hear the Supercharger network opening up to non-Teslas in the US (Europe - sure... there are regulations) rumor... I realize folks believe in Bigfoot and that there was a Pterodactyl shot and killed during the Civil War. I guess this is how dealerships make money... swindling suckers.

There are numerous issues... for example the ID.4 that I owned before the Model Y had the port on the passenger side. Most Superchargers are setup for driver side rear and the cable is not long enough to reach the other side unless you park on the other slot and even then I have no clue if it would reach.

Once there are billions of US charging subsidies (like in Europe?) then I can imagine Superchargers with both Tesla and CCS1 connectors.

 

[voxel]

This is an open and generic question directed towards ALL OTHER EV's. How do their built-in Nav systems route them to the 20+ independent charging networks? If you enter a destination what chargers will it select along the route? Do you need a separate account for each of them? Do they display info i.e. dining, bathrooms # of stalls available, site status i.e. INOP for some reason?

The EVs don't show availability data of the chargers because the charging networks don't publicly exposed the data. My ID.4 had a terrible nav system so I just used Google and ABRP but neither of those had access to live charging network data. I test rode a Mach-E twice and that didn't have live charger data either... just locations.

In another forum, I argue for some government mandate to expose this data and for carmakers to unify and create a common navigation system if they want to compete with Tesla.

 

[patmurphey]

...If cost is the primary consideration then the Mach E wins out there. Even currently they have an $7,500 advantage from the federal tax credit (may increase to $12,500?). This is enough money to make one think about accepting any shortcomings in order to save a significant amount of money.

No Mach E stays at $7,500 and the Tesla Model Y goes to $8,000.

 

[laservet]

Thanks for the feedback. I generally agree with the points you’ve made. From my research, the Mach-E thermal management system has a ways to catch up to where Tesla is at. As a first generation system, there will be shortcomings. As far as the nav system, I’m not sure it bothers me as long as I have my phone and CarPlay. But I do agree, the software has a ways to go.

I do disagree with your dismissal of Ford as a competitor. In my view, there are a number of areas where they have the advantage (see my original post) and while you may disagree with my opinions, I am not alone. Ford is currently taking orders away from Tesla, and that will only grow over the next few years. Do I think they will overtake Tesla in EV production any time soon? No, of course not. But Ford is a much bigger company than Tesla and has made a serious entry into EVs with the Mach-E and F150. Not everyone will want a Tesla.

I think not. The Mach E is designed for people who want an EV that still looks and acts like their old ICE car. And Ford's small drop in the bucket projected production numbers on both the Mach E and the F150 Lightning make them a non threat, showing that Ford isn't really serious yet about EVs. The real threat to Tesla as far as real competition will come from the Chinese.

Personally, I'd find the Ioniq 5 more competition for Tesla, but there are zero Hyundai dealers in the state in which I live that even carry one of their EVs. I would have to have it trucked in from a neighboring state. As the Hyundai sales person said, "We can put one in your driveway, but after that you're on your own." Their stated reason? No service income.

 

[sleepydoc]

"We can put one in your driveway, but after that you're on your own." Their stated reason? No service income.

And that right there is a perfect example of why the dealer model needs to change.

 

[Ezmendriz]

With the coming ccs1 adapter for Tesla's more options to charge them. In all fairness, for this EV to work you must charge mostly @home. I have traveled a lot on mine around VA area. Even a 2 day trip to Chicago. Must of the time the Supercharger sessions were convenient only using tesla network. I got problems around Richmond and Blacksburg. Those locations does not have a lot of Superchargers nearby. Once I have to go 30 min for the nearest one from where I was staying. I recently discovered a level2 charger in Blacksburg, is not fast bu it was cheap. In Chicago I got to an EA station that couldn't use. It only has chademo and ccs. But there were a tesla one nearby (15 min away though).

The networks only is a factor if you do a lot of road trips or if you cannot charge @home.

 

[JimmySure]

I think not. The Mach E is designed for people who want an EV that still looks and acts like their old ICE car. And Ford's small drop in the bucket projected production numbers on both the Mach E and the F150 Lightning make them a non threat, showing that Ford isn't really serious yet about EVs. The real threat to Tesla as far as real competition will come from the Chinese.

Personally, I'd find the Ioniq 5 more competition for Tesla, but there are zero Hyundai dealers in the state in which I live that even carry one of their EVs. I would have to have it trucked in from a neighboring state. As the Hyundai sales person said, "We can put one in your driveway, but after that you're on your own." Their stated reason? No service income.

Ford not serious about EVs? Not sure I agree. Earlier this year they upped their investment to $29B and then pledged another $11B for car and battery plants in Tennessee and Kentucky. For sure they are playing catch up and are supply constrained, but $40B sounds pretty serious to me. Once they are able to unlock Lightning production, that will quickly become the best selling EV. Had the Mach E GT been available, I would have strongly considered vs. the Model Y.

 

[gt2690b]

The hideous volume knob in the middle of the touchscreen was a deal breaker for my wife and I... couldn't stand staring at that thing for the life of the car

 

[mrwug]

Personally, I'd find the Ioniq 5 more competition for Tesla, but there are zero Hyundai dealers in the state in which I live that even carry one of their EVs. I would have to have it trucked in from a neighboring state. As the Hyundai sales person said, "We can put one in your driveway, but after that you're on your own." Their stated reason? No service income.

From a customer standpoint, service would be a nightmare with zero local dealers to support any issues / recalls.

 

[WADan]

Different strokes for different folks. It seems the Mach-E is a worthy competition for model Y, and the forum members have brought up pretty much all the relevant issues. I think both are EVs, so the OP would probably be happy with either one. Just get one and be happy with the choice you make!

 

[alexgr]

This is an open and generic question directed towards ALL OTHER EV's. How do their built-in Nav systems route them to the 20+ independent charging networks? If you enter a destination what chargers will it select along the route? Do you need a separate account for each of them? Do they display info i.e. dining, bathrooms # of stalls available, site status i.e. INOP for some reason?

As far as I can infer from multiple reviews and discussions, this is the situation where Android Auto and Car Play come in handy. People install something like Plugshare app and use it to find chargers and then use Google maps on their phone to navigate.

 

[alexgr]

No Mach E stays at $7,500 and the Tesla Model Y goes to $8,000.

This, unfortunately, sounds as a death sentence to the Mach-E.

 

[USCGDAV]

In late September, I placed a deposit on the the Model Y ($53,990 for Long Range, Pearl White, 19" Gemini, Black Interior) and the Mach-E ($53,100 for Premium, Extended Range, RWD, Grabber Blue). Both were originally scheduled to be delivered in April, though the MY is now showing a Feb 19 - March 19 delivery. I can only buy one. There are still many months before I need to decide. As of today, I am exactly 50/50 on which I will pick. Some of this decision will depend on the available tax credit at the time of purchase. Hopefully congress gets its act together and both get a credit next year. If one is substantially cheaper due to a tax credit I will likely go that way (though hard to say if the MY shows up without a credit and the Mach-E still has one but is still months away from delivery).

Anyway, I need your help! I've put together a list of pros and cons in the fine tradition of Benjamin Franklin and Walter White. These lists are specific to my own decision, as I see it. Please let me know if any of these considerations are off base, or if there is anything else I should be considering. I will post the two lists in subsequent posts.

And full disclosure... I also cross-posted the same lists on a Tesla forum. It will be interesting to see the differences in replies... Here are the lists:

Advantage Tesla Model Y

• Known reliability. Tesla has been making EVs for a while now, and has straightened out a lot of early production issues. Ford is just getting started, so there are likely to be a lot more issues for the first few years. Will a 2022 Mach-E be as reliable as a 2022 Model Y? What will the difference in cost of ownership be in 10 years?
• Polished UI. The touchscreen is really snappy, whereas the Mach-E touchscreen is sluggish. The Tesla software seems a little more refined too.
• Supercharger network. I have a lot more confidence that I won’t get stranded on long trips.
• Joy of driving. I’ve seen plenty of YouTube videos of people testing these two cars side by side and stating they enjoy driving the Tesla more, especially comparing the one pedal driving. Granted most of these people are Tesla owners, but not all. I have taken a test drive in both, and Tesla even gave me an overnight test drive. I will admit, the Tesla did feel a bit more responsive on the pedal, though it wasn't a huge difference.
• Performance. The Model Y base model does 0-60 mph in 4.8 seconds, and comes with AWD standard. The Mach-E RWD model I ordered does it in 6.1. Yes, I could upgrade to the AWD model and achieve 4.8, but this is an extra $2.7K. (Aside, I actually prefer the longer range and cheaper price which is why I’m not upgrading the Mach-E.)
• Cargo capacity. 68 cu ft vs 60 doesn’t seem like much, but it could make the difference. I am choosing a hatchback for a reason: I want to carry things.
• Autopilot. As of today, Tesla’s autopilot is more capable than Ford’s version. Ford is still developing theirs, so this could change. I have no interest in FSD.

Advantage Ford Mach-E

• Body Style. The Mach-E looks great. The body looks muscular. The LED projector headlights on the Premium look amazing, as do the taillights. I also like the futuristic look of the Model Y, but not as much.
• Paint and color. I ordered the Grabber Blue and love this color! I would almost buy the car just for the color. The Tesla looks good in white, but I don’t think is as much a head turner. Also, I’ve heard credible stories of lower paint quality control on the Tesla, including orange peeling, dust nibs, swirl marks, and more susceptibility to chipping. That last one is a particular concern, as a good paint job shouldn’t easily chip.
• Build quality. The Mach-E feels solid, and well built. Tesla is known for its inconsistent build quality, including panel gaps, loose parts, and water leaks.
• Novelty. There are Teslas everywhere. I don’t need to be the only one owning my car, but I’m not sure if it would feel as special if every parking lot I pull into has 10 other cars identical to mine.
• Dashboard screen behind steering wheel. I just want to see an instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. I don’t like that I have to look to the side to see my speed and range on the Model Y. Plus, the upper left of the Model Y screen just looks unpolished to me. The Mach-E does this much better.
• Physical controls. The Mach-E has physical controls for adjusting the side mirrors, direction of the climate control, a latch to open the glove box, turn on/off interior lights, and operate the windshield wipers. The Model Y does these through the touchscreen. Who wants to adjust their wipers through a touchscreen.
• Garage door opener. The Mach-E has a real garage door opener in the visor. I have to pay $350 to get this feature in the Model Y touchscreen, which I’m not about to do. I prefer a real button anyway.
• Apple CarPlay. Why doesn’t the Tesla have this? It’s just stupid.
• Long company track record. Ford has been here from the start. Tesla is a newcomer, run by a a guy who seems slightly crazy. Will they be around in 10 years?

Just an observation. I know you put a deposit and ordered two cars but this is one reason car manufacturers get themselves into trouble down the road. This is isn't a shirt you order and then return to Amazon, it's an expensive car and each unit depends on those who order the car to actually but the car. Those who sell their reservations on eBay should be outlawed as well. So, quite frankly, these boards are all about Tesla not Ford.

 

[Double-O]

This, unfortunately, sounds as a death sentence to the Mach-E.

Hardly. Cost or net cost isn't always the determining factor in a depreciating asset. This may come as a shock but there are plenty of potential buyers who would pay more for a car that is more visually appealing (to said potential buyer). Cars are mostly an emotional purchase. Making financial sense typically isn't a priority with cars, gas or EV.

 

[alexgr]

Hardly. Cost or net cost isn't always the determining factor in a depreciating asset. This may come as a shock but there are plenty of potential buyers who would pay more for a car that is more visually appealing (to said potential buyer). Cars are mostly an emotional purchase. Making financial sense typically isn't a priority with cars, gas or EV.

I agree. But if Ford dreamed of expanding production of Mach-E, that may become much harder without $7.5k advantage of Tesla. Reading some Mach-E forums, I've got impression that people who consider both Mach-E and Model Y often make their final decision based precisely on this $7.5k advantage.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

We have both standard Mach-E and LR MY. If you care about trunk space the difference is pretty huge. Make sure you actually see both cars in person, not just reading online and watching YouTube, before making decision.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hardly. Cost or net cost isn't always the determining factor in a depreciating asset. This may come as a shock but there are plenty of potential buyers who would pay more for a car that is more visually appealing (to said potential buyer). Cars are mostly an emotional purchase. Making financial sense typically isn't a priority with cars, gas or EV.

Agreed- different buyers have different priorities. That’s why you have people buying Corvettes and people buying Priuses. Different people put different values on things like cost, utility, looks, image, brand and performance. If that wasn’t the case everyone would be buying a Camry.

We have both standard Mach-E and LR MY. If you care about trunk space the difference is pretty huge. Make sure you actually see both cars in person, not just reading online and watching YouTube, before making decision.

It’s hard to get a good feel for things like trunk space from pictures but from what I’ve seen the Y has significantly more. My wife and I have been very pleased and impressed with the amount of cargo space in our Y.

As someone who owns both I’m interested to hear your impressions and comparisons. You have a perspective very few on this forum have (and are also probably less biased)

 

[JohnnyEV]

Tesla in CA = You see them all day everyday. Mach E in CA = I have seen 3 and I remember each one because it's still like a unicorn.

 

[cusetownusa]

We have both standard Mach-E and LR MY. If you care about trunk space the difference is pretty huge. Make sure you actually see both cars in person, not just reading online and watching YouTube, before making decision.

As in the MY is noticeably bigger?