House Breaker Box Maxed Out

[BrokerDon]

I will still plan on a big circuit breaker box to handle whatever comes.

I totally agree. Our 200A 240V main service panel ("MSP") in our 3,300 sq. ft. single family home is completely full with a 100A subpanel and load calc'd to the max since we added a 30A 120V RV outlet and 100A 240V Tesla HPWC. If we can ever figure out how to install solar in Sunny SoCal cost effectively on our Spanish tile roof, we'll upgrade to a 225A or 400A "solar ready" MSP and include it in the 30% Federal Tax Credit to offset a good chunk of the cost. Hoping the Tesla / Solar City solar roof pricing comes out soon.

 

[Rocky_H]

Quite true, the amount of power required for a car will (probably) remain in the 3-4 kWh/mile range for now. But the battery capacity will increase from today's puny 20-50 kWh to something more like 500-1,000 kWh. And its going to be a challenge to refill it overnight using a J1772 240V/50A line. Even more challenging if you have two cars.

You still seem to be not seeing or not understanding my point. You don't drive any different amount, whether the car has a capacity of 50kwh or 500kwh. You don't NEEEED to have the car refill 500-1,000kwh in a single night, when your daily driving is only 40 or 50 miles. If it takes you two or three nights to refill those hundreds of kwh, you won't even be aware of it.

And whenever did we like waiting for more than 5 minutes at a drive-thru window for fast food? the future "we" will want them to recharge in minutes, not hours.

This is the "filling station" mindset of someone who doesn't drive an electric car. Charging overnight is not "waiting". You don't sit there bored out of your mind while you count off the thousands of seconds "waiting" for your sleeping to be over with. That time just disappears like it doesn't exist because you aren't conscious.

 

[TJtv]

Rocky_H,

Quite true, the amount of power required for a car will (probably) remain in the 3-4 kWh/mile range for now. But the battery capacity will increase from today's puny 20-50 kWh to something more like 500-1,000 kWh. And its going to be a challenge to refill it overnight using a J1772 240V/50A line. Even more challenging if you have two cars.

What a strange post. Pretty much nothing in it regarding EVs is true.
1)Electric cars today do NOT use 3-4kWh/mile. They use 300-400Wh/mile. So you are off by a factor of 10.
2)Future electric cars will almost certainly not have 500-1000kWh batterys. That is WAY overkill. There's no reason to carry around the extra weight of all that battery when it will be used RARELY if ever.

 

[LoL Rick]

Our house has a 150A breakerbox and it is completely maxed out. My question is how an electrician will get 100A to the garage? Will the main breakerbox have to be upgraded to 250A-300A (in order to install a 100A breaker for the garage) or can the original 150A breakerbox be kept and a second 100A breakerbox be installed in the garage? I'm just curious if I "HAVE" to route the power through the main breakerbox due to some code or something. I know this can vary from state-to-state (I'm in VA).

Will you have to replace your main panel? Not necessarily. Of course the answer varies by jurisdiction, but I did not. My 200A panel was full, both by breaker count and load calculation. So my electrician upgraded the house to 300A service by replacing the meter box outside. He maintained the existing feed to the 200A panel, and added a second feed into the house to a separate 100A panel which feeds the HPWC.

 

[Lysol]

The house is actually 200A (sorry about that). The electrician noticed that the master bedroom is on 2 separate circuits and can combine them with a larger circuit to free up a spot. He said he can put in a 60A breaker which would give me 48A (31 miles/hour) of continuous charging for the HPWC charger and also put in an outlet on the same circuit for other uses. I'm just going to do this route as since I started this thread, the wife and I have decided that since I don't plan on getting rid of my Wrangler (still under warranty), we'll just keep that and have the Model X. I'm going to cancel my Model 3 reservation once we take delivery of the X. I don't see the costs for the electrician to exceed $1k (not including the cost of the HPWC), but I'll have to wait for a quote.

Plus, I can just set the charging to take place at like 1AM and not have to worry about overloading the house.

 

[Rocky_H]

What a strange post. Pretty much nothing in it regarding EVs is true.
1)Electric cars today do NOT use 3-4kWh/mile. They use 300-400Wh/mile. So you are off by a factor of 10.

I get what he did there, and it's just an honest mistake. People screw up units on here all the time. Most other electric cars other than Tesla state their efficiency number in the distance per energy format, to keep similar to gas car mileage miles per gallon terminology. So most of them have numbers in the 3 to 4 miles per kwh range, which is what he was trying to refer to.

 

[davewill]

There's no reason to combine the circuits, he should be able to use half height breakers to make room in the panel instead. Combining the circuits doesn't help the load calc at all.

 

[Ardie]

You still seem to be not seeing or not understanding my point. You don't drive any different amount, whether the car has a capacity of 50kwh or 500kwh. You don't NEEEED to have the car refill 500-1,000kwh in a single night, when your daily driving is only 40 or 50 miles. If it takes you two or three nights to refill those hundreds of kwh, you won't even be aware of it.

This is the "filling station" mindset of someone who doesn't drive an electric car. Charging overnight is not "waiting". You don't sit there bored out of your mind while you count off the thousands of seconds "waiting" for your sleeping to be over with. That time just disappears like it doesn't exist because you aren't conscious.

(Sigh.). Driving electric since March 2011. There was a time where I have had to sit in that damned car for an hour and a half waiting for the charging station to free up. And I had to wait another hour to get enough juice to get home.
Nearly every day I get home with about 9 miles left. Most of the time I have all night to recharge. But on Friday, I would like to go out with my better half, get dinner and catch a movie. NOPE. Not without a 1-1/2 to 2 hour intermission. "Get a car with more range," you say? If I (or anybody for that matter) gets a car with more range, then my wife or kid will invariably nab it, drive it, and return it with an empty tank, so to speak. And I don't think I'm the only one that faces this problem, electric or not. So I want want what I believe others will want. High speed charging -- at home. Today it's one car. Tomorrow, maybe there may be more than one family member that wants to go out on a Friday night. Am I the only one that will ever have this situation?

 

[Ardie]

What a strange post. Pretty much nothing in it regarding EVs is true.
1)Electric cars today do NOT use 3-4kWh/mile. They use 300-400Wh/mile. So you are off by a factor of 10.
2)Future electric cars will almost certainly not have 500-1000kWh batterys. That is WAY overkill. There's no reason to carry around the extra weight of all that battery when it will be used RARELY if ever.

Oops, Sorry for the typo. You are, of course, correct with 300-400 Watt-hours per mile.
But I'll stick with my prediction that battery capacities will continue to increase to satisfy customer desires (not needs). After all we only "need" cars with a 2 gallon gas tank to go that 40 miles a day that everyone is using as some kind of benchmark.

 

[Lysol]

There's no reason to combine the circuits, he should be able to use half height breakers to make room in the panel instead. Combining the circuits doesn't help the load calc at all.

My entire breaker box is full of 40 half height breakers (except one for a jet bathtub).

 

[BerTX]

My entire breaker box is full of 40 half height breakers (except one for a jet bathtub).

Sounds like a reason!

 

[Rocky_H]

(Sigh.). Driving electric since March 2011. There was a time where I have had to sit in that damned car for an hour and a half waiting for the charging station to free up. And I had to wait another hour to get enough juice to get home.
Nearly every day I get home with about 9 miles left. Most of the time I have all night to recharge. But on Friday, I would like to go out with my better half, get dinner and catch a movie. NOPE. Not without a 1-1/2 to 2 hour intermission. "Get a car with more range," you say? If I (or anybody for that matter) gets a car with more range, then my wife or kid will invariably nab it, drive it, and return it with an empty tank, so to speak. And I don't think I'm the only one that faces this problem, electric or not. So I want want what I believe others will want. High speed charging -- at home. Today it's one car. Tomorrow, maybe there may be more than one family member that wants to go out on a Friday night. Am I the only one that will ever have this situation?

But talking the least bit rationally will help your case and your credibility. You do say it's a want, not a need to refill 500 to 1,000 kwh overnight. But that is 1,500 to 3,000 miles (!!!) for your daily commute. Most people work on the same side of the continent as they live.

 

[jerry33]

I totally agree. Our 200A 240V main service panel ("MSP") in our 3,300 sq. ft. single family home is completely full with a 100A subpanel and load calc'd to the max since we added a 30A 120V RV outlet and 100A 240V Tesla HPWC.

For me 200 amps is plenty. I also have a 100 amp subpanel, Texas sized air conditioner, a 6 KVA UPS, a Tesla, and a Leaf. (14-50 for the Model S and Clipper Creek for the Leaf). No problems over the last four years (the Leaf has only been around for 1.5 years). My house is smaller than yours though 1800 sq. ft. vs 3300. Both EVs are set to finish about the time we normally start driving.

 

[davewill]

Sounds like a reason!

Indeed it does! That is a LOT of circuits in one box (or it's a very small box). I'd be tempted to add a subpanel just to cut down on the number of breakers. Each one is a source of heat. However, it should be fine this way.

 

[tga]

There's no reason to combine the circuits, he should be able to use half height breakers to make room in the panel instead. Combining the circuits doesn't help the load calc at all.

Half heights aren't always an option. Some panels aren't rated for them, and some have a max number of allowed circuits, regardless of full/half height breakers (IE, 12 slots with a 20 circuit limit - you can't install 12 half heights for 24 circuits).

 

[Rocky_H]

Half heights aren't always an option. Some panels aren't rated for them, and some have a max number of allowed circuits, regardless of full/half height breakers (IE, 12 slots with a 20 circuit limit - you can't install 12 half heights for 24 circuits).

Yep, I couldn't use any of those with my panel. I have a pretty decent modern SquareD panel from 1996, but I could not use any of that stuff to free up space in my panel. The half-height ones and the nested breakers (to combine two 240V circuits) from SquareD are only made for their panels that have a split bus bar, and mine isn't.