ArtC
Member
If you live in an apartment and don't have access to an outlet where you park, using the network is not an abuse.
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How much would you pay for Supercharging on Model 3?
- Thread starter Haxster
- Start date
If you live in an apartment and don't have access to an outlet where you park, using the network is not an abuse.
deonb
Active Member
A difference price per Supercharger, with $1 more each time than the previous time you used that particular Supercharger, capped at $50.
So first time you're pay $0
Next time you pay $1
Next time you pay $2
Next time you pay $3
etc.
This is per Supercharger, so if you go to another Supercharger, that one will start at $0.
This allows pretty much free long distance, but will discourage local charging.
If you want local charging because you live in an Apartment etc. you can buy a timeshare on a specific local supercharger which gives you free charging for specific hours of the week, and only those hours. As a plus, nobody else can use your Supercharger during those hours - so it's always available for you. And like a timeshare, premium hours have different prices than non-premium hours.
So first time you're pay $0
Next time you pay $1
Next time you pay $2
Next time you pay $3
etc.
This is per Supercharger, so if you go to another Supercharger, that one will start at $0.
This allows pretty much free long distance, but will discourage local charging.
If you want local charging because you live in an Apartment etc. you can buy a timeshare on a specific local supercharger which gives you free charging for specific hours of the week, and only those hours. As a plus, nobody else can use your Supercharger during those hours - so it's always available for you. And like a timeshare, premium hours have different prices than non-premium hours.
souslik
Member
I see nothing wrong with pay per use but it's shouldn't be a fixed fee unrelated to the amount of energy pulled. That would encourage people to top up their battery even if not needed and thus block the stall for too long.
How your model work in case you need to use the same supercharger going both ways? Assuming you don't need/can use any other SpC in between? And is it ever reset to $0?
Dogwhistle
Member
How about an option for per kWh? I'd be happy to do it that way, just charge me 20 cents per kWh and I'm good. Flat fee per charge just means people will sit there hogging the station to get their $$ worth. Give folks an incentive to charge up just what you need, and then get out of the way fr the next guy. Then Tesla can just send me a bill every month or quarter for what I actually used.
BravoSarah
Member
Pay-per-use SC's would be a huge blow to the EV market. ICE drivers would point and shout "See I told you it couldn't be done!"
Newspapers would throw out articles explaining how EV's will drive up the cost of electricity and that it will become the new oil. Just look at the crap that's out there now.
Big oil is just waiting for something like that to exploit.
I would have no issue buying a larger battery with lifetime SCing, but only if free forEVer, as promised.
Newspapers would throw out articles explaining how EV's will drive up the cost of electricity and that it will become the new oil. Just look at the crap that's out there now.
Big oil is just waiting for something like that to exploit.
I would have no issue buying a larger battery with lifetime SCing, but only if free forEVer, as promised.
SebastianR
Active Member
I would like to see a model that says "first 20 minutes are free" then you pay USD 25 (= significantly cheaper than gas) up to 2 hours. Beyond that it is 150 USD/hour
This will make sure you "always get home for free". The ones that either block the SC or use it more than for the occasional road trip pay quite a bit. I think something like this would be great for those who the SC network was intended for and discourage abuse.
This will make sure you "always get home for free". The ones that either block the SC or use it more than for the occasional road trip pay quite a bit. I think something like this would be great for those who the SC network was intended for and discourage abuse.
So can I just unplug and replug back in to start the 20 minutes over? Do I have to wait 10 minutes? 2 hours?
Also, I don't think 20 minutes will be enough to "always get home for free".
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
While there are some locations where commercial is the main problem (like San Mateo), there are also plenty of examples where garaged locals are the clear problem. I don't think they should get a free pass (since that will leave the problem unsolved). The California ones are the most common with locals (Gilroy first, but then same issues with Vacaville).
Supercharger Crowding?
[Rant] locals clogging the Highland Park, IL supercharger
I think the main reason why locals tend to be more of a problem is because they tend to be the main ones doing longer shopping (while those on a long trip or even commercial drivers need to leave for their trips, so wouldn't be as likely to overstay).
And general, no one should get a free pass (commercial, local, or long distance drivers) for overstaying at superchargers. Tesla needs to reinforce the idea that this is charging station, not a parking spot.
SebastianR
Active Member
I was considering to add the "fine print" i.e. recharging for less than 150 USD / hour less than 3x per day; 10x per month; at least 50 miles driven between charging events or so... I would need access to today's typical super charger times / the model 3 charging characteristics etc. to give you a more definitive answer.
The key point of my post was: I think it would be great if there is a "free but very time-limited" option to help in the "top-up a little" cases for driving less than 400 miles one way. Then I think there should be a very reasonably priced "road trip" option and a "don't block superchargers with your car" disincentive.
Dogwhistle
Member
I don't think so. There's nothing mind-blowing about paying for your own "fuel". I do it now with my i3 when I hit certain DCFCs. What couldn't be done? I don't think it will be nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. Not to mention, a buyer can save a $2k built in upfront charge for use, like the S and X have now, which would be great for those of us that would never get that much use out of them.
BravoSarah
Member
My point is (and I may not have made it very well), that it was said by Elon himself, it will be free forever. Basically making it a promise.
Breaking promises will have consequences.
CarlitoDoc
Member
The options on the poll are biased towards folks that will use the SC quite a bit. For some of us it will be only a "convenience" for long trips.
Bimbels
GoldMember
Since I rely on superchargers for my commute (I'm supercharging right now while I have my dinner!) I'd pay whatever they wanted. And I am confident whatever it is, it will be fair.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
If it's not just "included" I'd prefer some sort of pay per use philosophy as opposed to a large up-front sum. I'd only use them here and there regardless, so while the capability to use them is paramount, I'd rather pay based on actual usage.
Someone pointed out an interesting fact to me. With the amount of kWh Tesla would use, they should qualify for massive discounts, bringing the cost price of their electricity further down.
Google search on High Volume Electricity Cost:
http://www.ecofys.com/files/files/e...city-costs-of-energy-intensive-industries.pdf
Note: these prices don't include expanding and maintaining the SuC network.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem like it would apply to Tesla very much. Only their factory in Fremont might qualify, but their supercharger stations are spread across different states in the US (and different countries) and different power suppliers. As a unit, a supercharge station isn't necessarily that large a consumer of power (and in many cases there are extra demand charges for high power demands measured in kW).
Dogwhistle
Member
I don't think he's ever said this about the Model 3. Really, a pay-per-use model will be the only realistic way of managing the 100s of thousands of Teslas in the wild in a few years. The all-you-can eat smorgasbord was a great PR tool when you were selling mere thousands of $100k+ cars that are sharing a system that is scoped out for far more. Yes, THEY (grandfathered) will probably have free (prepaid) use forever, but we're about to start playing a whole different game here. Elon wants people to charge at home, this is how you encourage them to do it. Can you imagine what the line at a gas station in town would look like, if it was just offering gas for half price, let alone free? That's what Supercharger stations will look like in 2020 if the model doesn't change. I don't want that, so please charge me for my use!
Dogwhistle
Member
And by pay-per-use I mean pay per kWh or by the minute. Any flat-fee plan will only encourage folks to spend as much time as possible plugged in at the SC, instead of the minimum time needed, which is what we really want!
Pricing
I'm not sure why. Obviously there will be users that travel more than others, and obviously there will be those who can't charge at home. However, this doesn't change the average mileage of the entire fleet. After buying your EV, you won't suddenly see a massive increase in the average mileage.
Therefore, I would think that providing unlimited* charging isn't that impossible nor expensive to offer.
* fair use policy / within reason
# charging points:
I'm also a firm believer that general demand will create an oppurtunity for companies/(and government) to fill in the gaps.
Some growth numbers for The Netherlands (you may need to Google Translate it - it's in Dutch):
Cijfers elektrisch vervoer | RVO.nl
From that URL, the growth of charging point over the last 5 years (please keep in mind NL is a small country).
Also note the 2016 numbers are year-to-date (end of year might be leaning towards 15,000-16,000)
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