Yes, pressing the accelerator will override all braking, phantom or otherwise - you don’t even need to mash it. The only time this isn’t the case is if the car detects an imminent collision and engages emergency braking.
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How to deal with phantom braking?
- Thread starter techno
- Start date
Yes, pressing the accelerator will override all braking, phantom or otherwise - you don’t even need to mash it. The only time this isn’t the case is if the car detects an imminent collision and engages emergency braking.
So… the inattentive driver is trying to shift blame onto FSD.
This is why I hate FSD… BMWs, AUDIs and Hyundai to name a few… not because of the product itself, but the crap drivers pull.
I thought so. It looked like FSDb to me from the tell-tale way the Tesla lined up on the right dashed line ready for an apparent left turn. Mine does that too when setting up for the left turn into my neighborhood. From my experience, here's the poorly implemented left lane turn feature (it happens all the time!):There's a lot of forum discussion about this under the term "phantom braking" for "FSD", TACC, and Autopilot.
Yes, it's dangerous. Drivers need to watch it like a hawk.
Government investigation finds Tesla FSD was indeed engaged during the Bay Bridge pileup
The US Department of Transportation has released the NHTSA agency's special crash investigation findings of the Model S-caused pileup in San Francisco on Thanksgiving Day. The accident in the Bay Bridge tunnel has occurred with Tesla's Full Self-Driving Beta mode active indeed, just as the...www.notebookcheck.net
1) carry excess speed until last sec,
2) brake hard
3) dash into the turn lane (disregarding solid white lines as needed),
4) stop as close to the lane's right side as possible (essentially straddling it).
5) add a little right turn flair into traffic before turning left.
It's a dangerous implemented and sad it apparently was a contributor to this accident. Of course the driver should have sensed FSDb was failing and disengaged. But in general there could always be unforeseen issues like driver health (stroke, heart attack seizure, ,...), eyes adjusting from daylight to tunnel (acknowledge this tunnel was lit), driver actually saw something, unexperienced FSDb driver, etc.
And we can't forget the GSP issue's potential contribution. The numerous FSDb issues enable a swiss cheese model with holes lined-up for bad things to happen. There's no excuse for these problematic FSDb feature implementations to age.
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Ok, as long as you can anticipate a phantom brake. I get a few known locations but too many surprise phantom brake sources. It feels like the throttle is fully lifted for a fraction of a second as I can see the display's brake bar move about half way to full braking. Much better idea is for Tesla to fix this longstanding issue.
I'll add a grass is greener comment:
At a company event on Friday, a coworker asked me about my Tesla. We discussed the self driving, and he asked about "scary braking" as he called it. I told him it's called phantom braking. He said he just purchased a new Audi Q8 at Christmas, and it has the equivalent of Teslas Autopilot on the freeway. Lane keeping and adaptive cruise control. He said in the month and a half he's owned it, it's slammed on the brakes twice while using the feature, "scaring the crap out of me and my wife".
At a company event on Friday, a coworker asked me about my Tesla. We discussed the self driving, and he asked about "scary braking" as he called it. I told him it's called phantom braking. He said he just purchased a new Audi Q8 at Christmas, and it has the equivalent of Teslas Autopilot on the freeway. Lane keeping and adaptive cruise control. He said in the month and a half he's owned it, it's slammed on the brakes twice while using the feature, "scaring the crap out of me and my wife".
Hi all, just got a beautiful blue Model Y long range a week ago. Everything is awesome, truly a dream car for me, but I did notice a few hiccups w Autodrive. Quite a few times it suddenly slowed down by itself on the freeway... Like from from 70 mph to 50 mph. I noticed one of the times was when it drove under a bridge & might have mistaken the shadow for a car. A few other times were in semi-busy traffic on the freeway again, perhaps shadows of passing cars? Is this a known issue? I've been in & driven my friend's M3 for long trips & his FSD was awesome. Is the vision only update the culprit?
Thanks b4hand.
Thanks b4hand.
Welcome to the club! A new car needs to go through a calibration, and some software updates. If you purchased FSD, I recommend holding off on software updates until the latest Beta is out and the version is higher than your factory version. If you do not have FSD, then make sure your software is up to date, which may take 1-4 weeks to update. Once you have the latest software update, I recommend re-calibrating your cameras, and then setting up your settings (which are reset by the calibration). Then give the AP another go and see if it improves.
Thank you very much. My friend also told me to hold off using Autopilot for at least 100 miles (I've got round 300 miles on it now) - I'm guessing this is to let it calibrate? As for re-calibrating, do you mean: "Controls > Service > Camera Calibration > Clear Calibration."? Btw, I just have the basic Autopilot atm. Was planning on purchasing EAP, but I'm hearing it's not worth it atm while Tesla transitions to vision-based AP.
Ok, just caught up on this thread. I quickly learned to keep my feet near the accelerator when on AP. It freaked me out the first time, but now, when it happens, I just press on the accelerator, turn off AP, then turn it back on. I will definitely try the car wash/re-calibration. Today PB happened twice during a 40 min drive on a somewhat busy freeway. Until it gets better, I wouldn't feel safe letting anyone else use AP on my MY, definitely not my parents. Even with PBs, AP is still pretty cool and makes driving less tiresome.
Correct. Make sure the cameras are clean, drive to a freeway, and just before entering the freeway, put it in park, and clear calibration. Then drive in the freeway until it's calibrated. Try to stay in the middle lane. Once fully calibrated, pull off the freeway and put back in park. Go into settings and Autopilot. Set up your settings there.
My friend thinks it's a specific section of the I-4 (in Orlando) as it always happens to him in his M3 at the same area when he visits me, the PB from 70 to 50 mph.
Today, on a small winding road, AP nearly swerved into a driveway outa nowhere. I've gone on 4-6 hr trips in my friend's M3 LR & he's got it on AP 90% of the time. At most, I've only seen it get confused when lanes merge a few times. Never any AP or swerving. He's got FSD, but not a beta tester. My friend insists that I shouldn't use AP for at least a few more weeks to let the car learn my driving habits. Is this true?
Anyhow, I'm enjoying the handling of the MY a lot & don't mind driving the old-fashioned way. Hands down the best care I've ever driven.
I just washed my car today, so will try to recalibrate the cameras when I get a chance.
Today, on a small winding road, AP nearly swerved into a driveway outa nowhere. I've gone on 4-6 hr trips in my friend's M3 LR & he's got it on AP 90% of the time. At most, I've only seen it get confused when lanes merge a few times. Never any AP or swerving. He's got FSD, but not a beta tester. My friend insists that I shouldn't use AP for at least a few more weeks to let the car learn my driving habits. Is this true?
Anyhow, I'm enjoying the handling of the MY a lot & don't mind driving the old-fashioned way. Hands down the best care I've ever driven.
I just washed my car today, so will try to recalibrate the cameras when I get a chance.
KArnold
Active Member
No. The cars do not "learn" local roads, routes, habits, or anything else specific to you. Might be nice as maybe 95% of what I drive has been seen before.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I know they do kinda learn w/ hive mentality from our driving data, but isn't that mostly from FSD Beta drivers? Or do they also use regular driver data too?
KArnold
Active Member
We can only speculate. Chances are high they can get any data they choose for further dissection or simulation. But it makes as much sense they don't grab everything but have some flexibility to pick and choose.
Honestly the part that bothers me are major fails in v11, at least early on - i.e. I think Chuck had a turn from the wrong lane. Seems that should be, and was, a showstopper. You would think they would do major simulations of Chuck's UPL and his routes (plus 100k's of others) simulated up front before even initial distribution. Maybe NN's are somehow different when it comes to regression testing but they seem to do a real lousy job in this area.
Yes it really seems to be this stupid, still.
I had this happen repeatedly 2020-2022 on a highway going 65mph where it suddenly thought I was on the local road 20 feet below and cut my speed to 30mph.
I think there are 2 issues with speed limit.
1. Map data is out of date.
2. FSD software algorithm is wrong. For example: when exiting freeway with 65 mph, speed limit is still 65 mph on the exiting lane (speed posted on the lane is 45 mph, sometimes 20 mph if it's a sharp turn). Turning from a street with speed limit 20 mph to a street with speed limit 50 mph, the speed limit is still 20 mph after the turn for about 1/8 mile. I just had that yesterday.
Furthermore if speed limit is dropped, FSD should gradually decrease the speed, not abruptly decrease. If speed limit is increased, FSD should speed up ASAP.
1. Map data is out of date.
2. FSD software algorithm is wrong. For example: when exiting freeway with 65 mph, speed limit is still 65 mph on the exiting lane (speed posted on the lane is 45 mph, sometimes 20 mph if it's a sharp turn). Turning from a street with speed limit 20 mph to a street with speed limit 50 mph, the speed limit is still 20 mph after the turn for about 1/8 mile. I just had that yesterday.
Furthermore if speed limit is dropped, FSD should gradually decrease the speed, not abruptly decrease. If speed limit is increased, FSD should speed up ASAP.
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