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HW4 and Center Horn on 2023 Model S?

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I’m on my second MSP. Living in the desert near Palm Springs. If I need to honk the horn, I clearly know where the button is. No secret, no problem. At 69, I don’t recall when I used the horn to save the day or avoid a crash. I’m just fine with the yoke, turn signals and horn button locations. It’s not like there are too many buttons or switches to learn in these sterile, simplistic Tesla cabins.
 
I’m on my second MSP. Living in the desert near Palm Springs. If I need to honk the horn, I clearly know where the button is. No secret, no problem. At 69, I don’t recall when I used the horn to save the day or avoid a crash. I’m just fine with the yoke, turn signals and horn button locations. It’s not like there are too many buttons or switches to learn in these sterile, simplistic Tesla cabins.

It's like a different aircraft. Would you refuse to fly it and whine on the forums just because the flap switch or gear switch was in a non standard position?

What if it was a P-51 or Spitfire? I'd bet you would just spend the effort to learn it
 
It's like a different aircraft. Would you refuse to fly it and whine on the forums just because the flap switch or gear switch was in a non standard position?

What if it was a P-51 or Spitfire? I'd bet you would just spend the effort to learn it
Different aircraft require additional training and mandatory training on top of that. If I understand it correctly, if enough of the plane configuration has changed, even the updated version of the same plane requires additional training. This played a significant role in Boeing’s recent history.
 
I’m on my second MSP. Living in the desert near Palm Springs. If I need to honk the horn, I clearly know where the button is. No secret, no problem. At 69, I don’t recall when I used the horn to save the day or avoid a crash. I’m just fine with the yoke, turn signals and horn button locations. It’s not like there are too many buttons or switches to learn in these sterile, simplistic Tesla cabins.

It seems not everyone agrees with you. I guess I’m not sure who to believe. You or someone respected like Marques Brownlee with 18 million followers.

Who apparently after a year of owning the car still hates the capacitive buttons and the horn placement. I’m sure your opinion reaches far more people so Tesla should just keep doing what they are doing here. You mean so much to the Tesla community.
 
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It seems not everyone agrees with you. I guess I’m not sure who to believe. You or someone respected like Marques Brownlee with 18 million followers.

Who apparently after a year of owning the car still hates the capacitive buttons and the horn placement. I’m sure your opinion reaches far more people so Tesla should just keep doing what they are doing here. You mean so much to the Tesla community.
Number of followers is really meaningful here, way to bring out the big guns.
 
Number of followers is really meaningful here, way to bring out the big guns.
Number of followers doesn't mean much or that someone is right. But it does show if someone with that following is making it known they think it's a stupid design decision, potential buyers are seeing this far more than someone like Capt telling people to get used to it and get off his lawn. The point is not everyone agrees with him. But maybe a lot of people will see this thread and understand that anyone who dislikes the new setup is just wrong.
 
It seems not everyone agrees with you. I guess I’m not sure who to believe. You or someone respected like Marques Brownlee with 18 million followers.

Who apparently after a year of owning the car still hates the capacitive buttons and the horn placement. I’m sure your opinion reaches far more people so Tesla should just keep doing what they are doing here. You mean so much to the Tesla community.

How about just figure it out for yourself and believe your real world experience instead of strangers on the internet. Brownlee is a good guy and very entertaining but he is not an expert in what works for all - especially me and Mrs. Hayseed. Almost 100K miles on this yoke and still loving it and issue free.
 
How about just figure it out for yourself and believe your real world experience instead of strangers on the internet. Brownlee is a good guy and very entertaining but he is not an expert in what works for all - especially me and Mrs. Hayseed. Almost 100K miles on this yoke and still loving it and issue free.
How about believing others might not have the same experience as you? No one said he is the expert for what works for everyone. And I'm pretty sure you and Capt are random strangers on the internet offering their non-expert opinion too. Marques Brownlee has owned the car for a year as well so this isn't his 5 min test drive review. We can also safely assume he likely has more followers than both of us combined so when he says there is something he hates about the interface, people will hear it. Expert or not.

And many others have posted here they prefer a standard layout. Just that our resident expert here seems to think this is the perfect setup for everyone. When clearly it is not. But I probably haven't owned a Tesla as long as you have.

I have driven it and am ordering one. But the issue isn't the yoke by itself. If you watched the video, he actually likes that. It's the capacitive buttons that don't always work. No one also said one setup is right for everyone. Which is why they brought back the round steering wheel after all after saying they never would. They could easily have kept the yoke as is since you and Capt seem to love it which is great. Those that prefer the standard layout could have gotten that as well in the round steering wheel. But no normal person believes the small touch horn button is faster to find than the center of the wheel when the wheel is turned all the way. And if it's the perfect setup, why did the CEO feel the need to tweet that the hardware was there for the center horn and it was just a software update away? He probably lied about that but it's still out there.
 
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How about just figure it out for yourself and believe your real world experience instead of strangers on the internet. Brownlee is a good guy and very entertaining but he is not an expert in what works for all - especially me and Mrs. Hayseed. Almost 100K miles on this yoke and still loving it and issue free.
I mean say what you want, but there's a reason Tesla abandoned the Yolk and moved the horn back to the center on the Highland and Cybertruck.

They haven't relented on the signals yet, and I do find that the least objectionable part of the unnecessary changes they made. But clearly they have some internal data saying people weren't happy with the initial offering.

Having driven an X with a yolk extensively and now owning an S with the wheel - I can say the wheel is 1000x better and what the car should have come with from day 1. I'm not a fan of the turn signal buttons and lack of stalks in general, but can live with it (but if I lived somewhere where parallel parking was much more frequent, I'd probably be more than annoyed by the shifting). The horn is still amongst the stupidest things that I've seen come out of this company. And that's saying a lot since these are the same idiots who make FSD, removed radar, removed USS. And let's not forget the entirety of the cybertruck itself.
 
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How about just figure it out for yourself and believe your real world experience instead of strangers on the internet. Brownlee is a good guy and very entertaining but he is not an expert in what works for all - especially me and Mrs. Hayseed. Almost 100K miles on this yoke and still loving it and issue free.
We do need to tell all these TMC members in this prior thread they are wrong though. And as terranx pointed out, why did they add the horn back to the center on the Model 3 and Cybertruck if they had perfected the steering wheel design?


Are you suggesting Tesla had the perfect design and somehow went to a more expensive design for their cheapest car the Model 3? Horn is back in center.
Makes no sense. Their current design I assume is cheaper and beloved by almost all according to you so not sure why they would backtrack on this.
 
I mean say what you want, but there's a reason Tesla abandoned the Yolk and moved the horn back to the center on the Highland and Cybertruck.

They haven't relented on the signals yet, and I do find that the least objectionable part of the unnecessary changes they made. But clearly they have some internal data saying people weren't happy with the initial offering.

Having driven an X with a yolk extensively and now owning an S with the wheel - I can say the wheel is 1000x better and what the car should have come with from day 1. I'm not a fan of the turn signal buttons and lack of stalks in general, but can live with it (but if I lived somewhere where parallel parking was much more frequent, I'd probably be more than annoyed by the shifting). The horn is still amongst the stupidest things that I've seen come out of this company. And that's saying a lot since these are the same idiots who make FSD, removed radar, removed USS. And let's not forget the entirety of the cybertruck itself.
Exactly. Tesla backtracked on a major feature (round steering wheel) after Elon said that would never happen. So there is a sizable number of people who were refusing to even order the car it sounds like. They only went half way and have this odd hybrid with round steering wheel and capacitive buttons and horn placement so maybe they'll finish the job and offer both options.

But during my test drive, the turn signals are still pretty dumb design but I can get used to that. But yeah, the horn is a really stupid design decision. There is no way what they did was an improvement. I'm sure some here will argue it's no worse but that's a hard position to justify. At the very least, it was not an improvement. And as you pointed out, they brought it back on the Model 3. Which they never would have done if the off center capacitive horn button was so popular (it's cheaper I assume with no center horn part).
 
Exactly. Tesla backtracked on a major feature (round steering wheel) after Elon said that would never happen. So there is a sizable number of people who were refusing to even order the car it sounds like. They only went half way and have this odd hybrid with round steering wheel and capacitive buttons and horn placement so maybe they'll finish the job and offer both options.

But during my test drive, the turn signals are still pretty dumb design but I can get used to that. But yeah, the horn is a really stupid design decision. There is no way what they did was an improvement. I'm sure some here will argue it's no worse but that's a hard position to justify. At the very least, it was not an improvement. And as you pointed out, they brought it back on the Model 3. Which they never would have done if the off center capacitive horn button was so popular (it's cheaper I assume with no center horn part).
Yeah I imagine it’s cheaper to have capacitive only. Though I can’t imagine we’re talking more than a few cents per vehicle.

People also often bring up older poverty spec Hondas as justification… but those at least had the button on both sides. Even that would be a major improvement over what we have. Not to mention it was at least still a physical button you could feel without looking.

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Yeah I imagine it’s cheaper to have capacitive only. Though I can’t imagine we’re talking more than a few cents per vehicle.

People also often bring up older poverty spec Hondas as justification… but those at least had the button on both sides. Even that would be a major improvement over what we have. Not to mention it was at least still a physical button you could feel without looking.

View attachment 996017
Exactly. Two large physical buttons on each side there.

As further evidence they realize they messed up (in part) is they brought back center horn on the high volume Model 3 as you pointed out. So that cost them at least a few hundred thousand to a million+. Not much in grad scheme of things but they wouldn't do it unless necessary.
 
I got used to and even preferred the yoke on my MXP as it allowed me to do what I already do which is using a single finger to turn the wheel in parking lot maneuvers. The yoke made it even easier. What I never got used to, though, was the stupid tiny non physical horn button on the right.

As such, this is the one thing I'm waiting to get back before ordering an MSP. As soon as Tesla adds it back, I'll place an order...provided the Plaid price is still $90 and Ultra Red is still free. If the center horn button doesn't come until after the price goes back up, then that's it for me.
 
I got used to and even preferred the yoke on my MXP as it allowed me to do what I already do which is using a single finger to turn the wheel in parking lot maneuvers. The yoke made it even easier. What I never got used to, though, was the stupid tiny non physical horn button on the right.

As such, this is the one thing I'm waiting to get back before ordering an MSP. As soon as Tesla adds it back, I'll place an order...provided the Plaid price is still $90 and Ultra Red is still free. If the center horn button doesn't come until after the price goes back up, then that's it for me.
Make sure you let someone at Tesla know. They need to hear they are losing out on ~$20,000 in margin over a $10 part for the horn. I probably should have waited too but wanted to take advantage of free Supercharging transfer offer and Tesla refused to extend it even for Signature customers. You'd think they could have thrown a bone to people who put down almost half the cost of the car and waited 3.5 years but no.

I hope they at least offer a paid swap out on new steering wheel with center horn (it was promised as a free software update although that was I guess a lie or 'misstatement' that was never corrected).
 
I was in the market for a while and evaluated I5, MSP/MSLR, Lucid, and EQS. I narrowed down to I5 and MSLR. On my wife's final test drive she had 2 separate situations where I needed my horn to prevent an accident potentially and I hit the middle of the wheel instead of that button.

That was a dealbreaker for us, and we went with the I5.

Not judging anyone for their decisions, but this stupid little thing turned out to be a key differentiator for us.