If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[Candleflame]

Be honest, are you actually happy with tesla removing the limit considering the downside, your battery pack will die faster? Esp with your travel usage.

I'm honestly conflicted

its a killer deal. A new battery is less worth than a battery with 10% degradation and unlimited warranty to <30% plus HV failure imho. The battery WILL fail, it is just a question of when. You know for sure that you are down a shiny new battery down the line. which will have warranty too.

 

[immolated]

Ok I tried at a V3 today can confirm my rate did go up with new software from a throttled 108kw .. I did Max to 120kw for all of 30seconds

According to tesla's page, the throttling only made about a < 5 minute difference. I guess this confirms it. You're really not hitting that peak for long.

 

[islandbayy]

According to tesla's page, the throttling only made about a < 5 minute difference. I guess this confirms it. You're really not hitting that peak for long.

Thats what they claim. My experience, a 0-100% Charge Pre-Throttle was 2 hrs or less. Post-Throttle 3-3 1/2 hrs. Before anyone says that 100% or near 100% (95%+)isn't necessary, I disagree, especially in winter, and/or towing a trailer. Even then, example, 25*F on Thursday, left home with 165 rated miles. Drove 78 miles to the supercharger. Heat set very low, range mode on so battery heater wouldn't suck the power. Arrived at the supercharger with 8 rated miles left. Average power consumption of the MX was 520-ish wh/mile. Which is crazy high. We had a tail wind, no head wind. In comparison, in summer, same vehicle gets about 360/mile, my MS gets 420/mile in winter and 220-290 summer with AC on (Aero RIms)

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Thats what they claim. My experience, a 0-100% Charge Pre-Throttle was 2 hrs or less. Post-Throttle 3-3 1/2 hrs. Before anyone says that 100% or near 100% (95%+)isn't necessary, I disagree, especially in winter, and/or towing a trailer. Even then, example, 25*F on Thursday, left home with 165 rated miles. Drove 78 miles to the supercharger. Heat set very low, range mode on so battery heater wouldn't suck the power. Arrived at the supercharger with 8 rated miles left. Average power consumption of the MX was 520-ish wh/mile. Which is crazy high. We had a tail wind, no head wind. In comparison, in summer, same vehicle gets about 360/mile, my MS gets 420/mile in winter and 220-290 summer with AC on (Aero RIms)

Sounds like you've left home with your battery cold-soaked? That would be normal, since part of the energy is spent warming up the battery. Perhaps plug it into a regular 110 outlet to prevent the cold-soaking?

 

[islandbayy]

Sounds like you've left home with your battery cold-soaked? That would be normal, since part of the energy is spent warming up the battery. Perhaps plug it into a regular 110 outlet to prevent the cold-soaking?

Again, Range Mode on, lowers the battery pack heater activation threshold. Instead of turning on at 32*F or 0*C, it will not activate at temperatures above -10*F-ish. As such, it is not heating the battery and not wasting power to do so. Further it reduces power output of the heat. Hence the name "Range Mode". It helps Increase Range. I've been running range mode on since 2013 and have over 250,000 miles of Tesla driving under my belt between 2 Model S's and a Model X.

 

[islandbayy]

Sounds like you've left home with your battery cold-soaked? That would be normal, since part of the energy is spent warming up the battery. Perhaps plug it into a regular 110 outlet to prevent the cold-soaking?

You have a Model 3 and Model Y. Those do not have the Range Mode option. Nor does the Model S and X Ravens. Not sure why. It's very useful and greatly extends winter range and somewhat summer range.
It lowers heat and AC power consumption, lowers battery pack heater activation temp, and for dual motor S and X vehicles it put the rear motor into torque sleep only using the forward motor for cruising, completely shutting off the rear motor (Which will activate automatically should torque demand require).

 

[PLUS EV]

According to tesla's page, the throttling only made about a < 5 minute difference. I guess this confirms it. You're really not hitting that peak for long.

It's probably more in the 5-15 minute range depending on the length of stop, but even if it's only 5 minute per stop, when you consider the people that it's affecting are the people who have made hundreds or even thousands of supercharger stops, you quickly realize that it adds up to lots and lots of hours.

 

[P85_DA]

According to tesla's page, the throttling only made about a < 5 minute difference. I guess this confirms it. You're really not hitting that peak for long.

I charged again at a real low SOC I did peak around ~160kw and it tapered fast ..normally I carried 100kw up to 50% but now it tapers at around 40%... I can confirm though now unthrottled from a very low SOC under 10% to a 90% charge I back in the 45 min range which is a improvement for me taking me back to pre throttle times

 

[Pruitt]

It's probably more in the 5-15 minute range depending on the length of stop, but even if it's only 5 minute per stop, when you consider the people that it's affecting are the people who have made hundreds or even thousands of supercharger stops, you quickly realize that it adds up to lots and lots of hours.

It damned near doubled the length of my charging stops. I went from about two hours charge time running between Charleston SC and Cherry Hill NJ to over four hours. All other long distance trips suffer similarly extended charge stops.

 

[speedy]

I am not throttled yet, but in my experience, the changes they made in the charging profile just reduced the maximum charge earlier in the cycle. So even though I can reach the maximum, it doesn't stay there long and quickly tapers to much lower rates. That's what is lengthening the overall charging times...

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Again, Range Mode on, lowers the battery pack heater activation threshold. Instead of turning on at 32*F or 0*C, it will not activate at temperatures above -10*F-ish. As such, it is not heating the battery and not wasting power to do so. Further it reduces power output of the heat. Hence the name "Range Mode". It helps Increase Range. I've been running range mode on since 2013 and have over 250,000 miles of Tesla driving under my belt between 2 Model S's and a Model X.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Range Mode for moderate temperature range improvements (reduces efficacy, and thus energy consumption, of the cabin HVAC)? One additional drawback of range mode in extreme cold would be reduced regen (little blue snowflake showing up), which means you're wasting kinetic energy. Batteries are chemistry in action. If the temperature is too low (25F is below the freezing point of H2O), the migrations of Li+ ions from the anode to the cathode are degraded, increasing internal resistance. The battery has to be warmed up for it to be discharged. I'm pretty sure plugging it into a 110v outlet should yield better results (even without range mode).

 

[islandbayy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Range Mode for moderate temperature range improvements (reduces efficacy, and thus energy consumption, of the cabin HVAC)? One additional drawback of range mode in extreme cold would be reduced regen (little blue snowflake showing up), which means you're wasting kinetic energy. Batteries are chemistry in action. If the temperature is too low (25F is below the freezing point of H2O), the migrations of Li+ ions from the anode to the cathode are degraded, increasing internal resistance. The battery has to be warmed up for it to be discharged. I'm pretty sure plugging it into a 110v outlet should yield better results (even without range mode).

Range mode increases range in any climate. I have seen only negligible decrease in heating performance, virtually no difference in AC performance.
If you are in the city, using a lot of stop and go, then range mode off may be better as it will give you your regen back. If you are going right on the Freeway, and cruising at a set speed, range mode off would use exponentially more energy than you'd gain from a warm pack. Further, the act of driving also warms the pack. Even at 0*F, I had full regen within 20 minutes.

Will repeat another section, that of my long Tesla ownership, and distance traveled and for those unaware, I'm also the original Tesla Tuber, it was just me then Bjorn back in the day. I have experimented with Range Mode on and off extensively. Even for city driving, the amount of energy used to warm the pack with range mode off almost always outweighs the savings by leaving it on and just using the friction brakes.

As for pre-heating the pack on a outlet, any outlet, yes, that would increase range with the warmer pack. However, also taking into consideration Time of Use (Peak/Off-Peak) electrical rates, for me, the cost outweighs the benefit in most cases if done regularly. I usually do pre-heat on grid the cabin and at the same time, the car preheats the pack a bit, when I know I'm going to be doing a long drive, especially when a great distance between superchargers.

 

[DarkMatter]

For short hops I really prefer the quicker heat from having Range Mode off. Honestly I don't see the use for it if you preheat before long trips, because on short trips it's nicer to have the heat, and longer trips I always make sure to start out with a warm pack. But then we don't have TOU rates here.

 

[doctorwho]

It damned near doubled the length of my charging stops. I went from about two hours charge time running between Charleston SC and Cherry Hill NJ to over four hours. All other long distance trips suffer similarly extended charge stops.

I've had the same experience. My 7 hour round trip between Melbourne and northeast Victoria (that I do at least weekly) has gone from 7.5 hours with a supercharge stop to 9 hours. Since the update, my max charge rate has increased from a max of 75kW/hr (for a minute at 20%) to around 95kW/hr for less than a minute (at 20%). Inconsequential

 

[Dublin 'Eer]

I've had the same experience. My 7 hour round trip between Melbourne and northeast Victoria (that I do at least weekly) has gone from 7.5 hours with a supercharge stop to 9 hours. Since the update, my max charge rate has increased from a max of 75kW/hr (for a minute at 20%) to around 95kW/hr for less than a minute (at 20%). Inconsequential

The increase should be higher throughout the entire charge curve not just at the peak. How is an additional 20 kW charge rate inconsequential? That should be an extra 70-80 MPH increase in charge speed. That’s a huge difference across several charges during a long. trip.

 

[islandbayy]

For short hops I really prefer the quicker heat from having Range Mode off. Honestly I don't see the use for it if you preheat before long trips, because on short trips it's nicer to have the heat, and longer trips I always make sure to start out with a warm pack. But then we don't have TOU rates here.

It's not just for the heat, it's also for pack heater and torque sleep. Disables the rear motor while cruiseing just using the front to reduce consumption further. Thats how I can beat epa by 75 Wh/mile in my Model S while still on the freeway doing 75mph w/AC on a low fan speed.

 

[doctorwho]

The increase should be higher throughout the entire charge curve not just at the peak. How is an additional 20 kW charge rate inconsequential? That should be an extra 70-80 MPH increase in charge speed. That’s a huge difference across several charges during a long. trip.

Sorry, i wasn't clear, before the update, I had a 'peak' charge rate of 70kW/hr before it settled to 50kW/hr. How I have a peak of 90kW/hr for a minute, before it settles to 50kW/hr.

 

[Rocky_H]

Sorry, i wasn't clear, before the update, I had a 'peak' charge rate of 70kW/hr before it settled to 50kW/hr. How I have a peak of 90kW/hr for a minute, before it settles to 50kW/hr.

It's driving me kind of batty here, so let's clarify the units--kW/hr isn't a thing.
kWh or kilowatts times hours is amounts of energy.
So a level of power, which would be amount of energy per time, would be kWh per hour.
So with kilowatt hours per hour, the unit of hours cancels out from the numerator and denominator, so you're left with just kilowatts as the power, which is your charging rate.

 

[doctorwho]

It's driving me kind of batty here, so let's clarify the units--kW/hr isn't a thing.
kWh or kilowatts times hours is amounts of energy.
So a level of power, which would be amount of energy per time, would be kWh per hour.
So with kilowatt hours per hour, the unit of hours cancels out from the numerator and denominator, so you're left with just kilowatts as the power, which is your charging rate.

Good grief, it takes about an hour (60 minutes) to add 40kW of power to my car. It took about an hour before the update, it still takes about an hour despite a brief increase in the maximum charging rate.

 

[Rocky_H]

Good grief, it takes about an hour (60 minutes) to add 40kW of power to my car.

*facepalm*
It's energy that gets added to the car, not power. Power is the speed at which the energy is being added. That would be 40 kWh of energy. If that took 1 hour, then that was at a power level of 40kW.