Improving Supercharger Availability $0.40 idle fee

[ohmman]

Yesterday, today and tomorrow, Tesla knew/knows/will know who is really abusing, and what waiting lines at Superchargers such abusers are really creating. Tesla can monitor all of that information: people who charge locally where they could very well charge at home; people who leave their car hours at a Supercharger, people who charge to 100% while a 60% charge would be sufficient to get them to their next destination ànd there are eight other Tesla's waiting to charge, etc. Tesla knows all of this already, always (including the waiting lines at Superchargers). So Tesla knows on which targets it should focus, in terms of abuse.

I would suggest that this "list" could be a fluctuating one, and maybe not quite as obvious as it seems at first glance. I have no way of knowing, but I can imagine someone who leaves their car at a charger all day, but only does it 3-4x a year. I can just as easily imagine someone who leaves their car there for 30 minutes after charging is complete, and does it once a week. Maybe they can set up a wide net, and it might not be that hard. But there are new owners constantly coming into the mix as well - CPOs, used vehicles on the private market, new sales, etc. I am not quick to assume that they can just dole out an easy list of perpetrators.

Then again, maybe they can..

 

[JRMW]

Cool. Thanks for clarification AnxietyRanger!

 

[msnow]

Yesterday, today and tomorrow, Tesla knew/knows/will know who is really abusing, and what waiting lines at Superchargers such abusers are really creating. Tesla can monitor all of that information: people who charge locally where they could very well charge at home; people who leave their car hours at a Supercharger, people who charge to 100% while a 60% charge would be sufficient to get them to their next destination ànd there are eight other Tesla's waiting to charge, etc. Tesla knows all of this already, always (including the waiting lines at Superchargers). So Tesla knows on which targets it should focus, in terms of abuse.

How would they know the waiting lines? Geolocating the car but it's not charging?

 

[4SUPER9]

I am wondering if Tesla thinks that selective targeting, while morally justified, could cause legal issues. Going after only people who park for extended periods, without having a written policy in place that effects everyone could be problematic. The idle charge equally hits everyone, and only those that idle get an actually fee charged to them. It was easily implemented without any significant expense.

Now, if they were to place official tow-away signs at selective SCs, that would effectively hit everyone there. But, apparently, they cannot do this for various reasons that need not be repeated.

 

[suraj1194]

A system that monitors usage pattern over time and punishes frequent wrongdoers, technically addresses a different problem - that of punitive punishment of repeat offenders based on historical data.

However, this idle fee does not, IMHO, deal with that. It deals with the more immediate need to just get the owner to get the car out of the way.

So far, the app notifications popping up on the smartphone screen was the approach used. it appears not to have worked. A mounting fine is their more direct way to push a person to get their car out of the way.

This isn't perfect of course, especially since a) superchargers are limited in number and b) the charging duration is non deterministic. Hopefully TSLA will use whatever fines they collect to build more SCs particularly at locations where they're collecting most fines.

 

[sorka]

Are you guys sure wishing for or salivating in customer shaming is really a good idea? I mean, I get it. One's worse angels at too long a queue might prompt such thinkings, but aren't most of us actually trying to increase EV acceptance and adoption? Some may even have TSLA long etc.?

The folks I'm thinking of are shameless. They get away with anything they think they can even if it means being caught once in a bluemoon. They're the type to drive in the carpool lane, try to prevent you from zipper merging, or rush in at the last second and cut you off in a lane that merged 5 minutes earlier. They're pathological cheaters on everything in life and feel no shame or guilt.

 

[sorka]

So far, the app notifications popping up on the smartphone screen was the approach used. it appears not to have worked. A mounting fine is their more direct way to push a person to get their car out of the way.

That's because half the time the notifications don't appear at all and when they do there is no audible notification.

 

[suraj1194]

That's because half the time the notifications don't appear at all and when they do there is no audible notification.

Yes, from what I read here, the app itself not functioning properly, is one reason why people don't see notifications. However, from what I've seen, it's a sporadic issue affecting some. It's worked flawlessly on my iPhone since the day I got the car, through several iOS and Tesla firmware updates, for example.

 

[mspohr]

That's because half the time the notifications don't appear at all and when they do there is no audible notification.

Some people may have issues but my Android phone has reliability delivered all notifications for the past two years.

 

[sorka]

Yes, from what I read here, the app itself not functioning properly, is one reason why people don't see notifications. However, from what I've seen, it's a sporadic issue affecting some. It's worked flawlessly on my iPhone since the day I got the car, through several iOS and Tesla firmware updates, for example.

That's nice. For us Android users, it still says beta.....after years.

 

[MP3Mike]

Thats why I own a Pebble. I can charge it for 15 minutes in the morning while I get ready and its good for two days.

Too bad they are being killed by fitbit

They aren't being killed by Fitbit.

They failed to make a go of it as a company and Fitbit wasn't willing to buy the whole company. If another company/person had been willing to invest more to keep Pebble going then they would have gone down that route instead of selling their IP to Fitbit and closing the company down themselves.

 

[FlatSix911]

So I was talking to my wife about this. She thinks the policy is nuts. I disagree and think it's way over due. She's already vetoed future Tesla purchases due to the nasty experience she had in Manteca where she could only charge 14KW on the stall 1 and 30KW on stall 3 (nobody else there at all). See: Wife just said she's never driving the Tesla again......for that fiasco.
She's totally not the type to watch the app. She's not the type to even run the app!!!!! Not even once. She'll plugin and go about her business and return when she's good and ready.The bottom line is, she shouldn't be let lose on the supercharger network. She would clog it up in high use areas. Then it hit me. She's the majority. She's the mainstream. Most of america is like her. I'm the odd one one. She thinks I have aspergers. I'm OCD about everything and micro manage everything. It drives her nuts that I look at the app every 5 minutes. She's like "it's just a car. Put the phone down already".

Well, if you have to ask ... your wife might be part of the problem

 

[sorka]

Well, if you have to ask ... your wife might be part of the problem

Keep reading and you'll see why being part of the problem *is* the problem

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The folks I'm thinking of are shameless. They get away with anything they think they can even if it means being caught once in a bluemoon. They're the type to drive in the carpool lane, try to prevent you from zipper merging, or rush in at the last second and cut you off in a lane that merged 5 minutes earlier. They're pathological cheaters on everything in life and feel no shame or guilt.

That's no way to talk of your wife!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That's because half the time the notifications don't appear at all and when they do there is no audible notification.

It is a blessing then that Tesla isn't asking us to depend on the app to avoid punitive charges!

 

[sorka]

It is a blessing then that Tesla isn't asking us to depend on the app to avoid punitive charges!

If they will do SMS, that would be cool too but Verizon is sometimes late on delivering me SMS messages. Up to 8 or 9 minutes late occasionally but that's not typical. They really just need to improve the android app so it's reliable and that it connects.

Unfortunately my car is not always connected to AT&T but I'm not popping $500 to upgrade to 4g on the off chance that it fixes it as Tesla claims it will.

 

[CuriousG]

This is exactly what my wife, who isn't going to pulling out her phone all the time to check said she'd be fine with.

People that refuse to use their phone can opt for the next best thing:

Tesla can later implement this as their HUD. Two birds one stone.

 

[JRMW]

If the predicted return time had been based on the initial starting charge, she would have gotten back and discovered she only had 20% of the charge she needed.

This is of course why I believe Anxiety Ranger's idea will not work.

The goal is to get people through the SC queue faster.

As we've discussed, estimates of timing can be off by a wide margin.

Tesla would this build any timing algorithm in such a way to get people back to their cars in time

If estimated charging time was 25 min to 55 minutes, it would tell the customer 25 minutes.

Then customer would be upset when they return to find their car only partially charged.

They certainly won't tell customer the 55 minute figure. This defeats the entire purpose, which is to get the queue moving faster.

In the end, this whole kerfuffle has never been about punishing anybody. It's been about trying to solve a major problem which is unreasonably long queues.

That some abusers might be "punished" is a nice side effect.

That some non abusers are inconvenienced is a negative side effect.

I personally think people are overreacting to the fine. It's an extremely minor nuisance. Yes, it is a nuisance. But getting a $6 fine once in a blue moon is hardly life changing.

If you're getting bigger fines, it means you left your car in a charging stall for a long time, which means you're an abuser... or you repeatedly leave your car in a charging stall while not charging, which means you are an abuser.

I think Elon's tweet solves the primary problem with the solution, which was being charged at empty SC sites.

IF Tesla wanted to be generous, they could also give everybody $24 (or $48 or whatever) credit per year to use towards fines. Then you'd be protected for that rare time where you had to walk 30 minutes each way while on crutches with dogs and kids to get to the only restaurant, and your car started charging way faster and 10 unexpected cars pull in after you left.

But I repeat:if you're getting more than a a few dollars of fines per year, then you are part of the problem and you need to change your behavior

 

[Xenius]

But I repeat:if you're getting more than a a few dollars of fines per year, then you are part of the problem and you need to change your behavior

This right here is the reality. I think the number of times I have let my car sit for longer than charging took is about two. And both times were later at night while we stopped and had dinner on a road trip. Both times we would have avoided the new charge as we were the only car in the location. (Pretty sure I saw EM say they would adjust this based on capacity of the location)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@JRMW:

It depends on what the goal really is. If the goal is to curb abuse - as they say - it does not make a difference if people come with a 5 minute or 35 minute grace. Some delay past the actual charging completion is a normal part pf EV charging due to the long and unpredictable nature of it. It is not abuse.

Now, if the real reason is Tesla has built too little capacity and thus needs to try and keep the line moving inhumanely fast, motivations may be different. But this has nothing to do with abuse and everything to do with insufficient capacity...