If you won't pay markup no test drive? Include me out. Waiting for my Model 3 delivery.
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Ioniq 5 vs Model Y
- Thread starter WADan
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- tall driver comfort
I have an Ioniq 5 and I didn’t even know about this one. Darn this is bad and unexpected.
Everyone here needs a little reality check: EV's are not as inexpensive to own as an equivalent gasoline car over their lifetime. Just like how my diesel truck doesn't really cost less to own than the gas version. I bought the diesel because I like it. I also really like driving EVs. It's a luxury item, not a money saver. Someday EVs will certainly be cheaper to operate as oil rises further, less expensive options become available & reliability improves. But they are not now.
Some of this fact has been obscured lately because Tesla resale has been very high as the prices have continued to rise.
Option #1: Buy a loaded $40K efficient car & put the $30K in savings in the stock market at an average return. Just the average 10% annual returns alone pays for your annual fuel and you'll still have your $30K.
Option #2: Or buy a $70K EV with higher real world lifetime maintenance costs as they age (possibly much higher), real recharging costs, higher insurance rates, wiring your garage costs, etc.
If you are here to purchase a new Tesla (or any EV) to save money, stop right here and go buy a 35 mpg getting GM or Toyota ICE. Seriously.
Some of this fact has been obscured lately because Tesla resale has been very high as the prices have continued to rise.
Option #1: Buy a loaded $40K efficient car & put the $30K in savings in the stock market at an average return. Just the average 10% annual returns alone pays for your annual fuel and you'll still have your $30K.
Option #2: Or buy a $70K EV with higher real world lifetime maintenance costs as they age (possibly much higher), real recharging costs, higher insurance rates, wiring your garage costs, etc.
If you are here to purchase a new Tesla (or any EV) to save money, stop right here and go buy a 35 mpg getting GM or Toyota ICE. Seriously.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
In 2 years of owning a Model Y:
17,000 miles x 278 wH/mi average efficiency * $0.10/kwh = $472
For an Audi Q5
17,000 miles ÷ 26 MPG * $4.90/gallon = $3,203
The delta for Fuel alone is $2,700 for a low milage car. That ignores transmission fluid, brake fluid, oil changes the time and environmental costs of these. Ignoring all other maintenance costs you're at $27,000 in 10 years. Of course that also ignores the environmental benefits of EVs as well (beyond waste oil, etc)
Comparing prices and costs is very difficult in the current market. Everything more expensive than it should be under normal circumstances and EVs are especially so because of consumer demand, but even now the economics are not what you make them out to be.
Uh, not exactly what this thread is about and probably not the only reason most would buy an EV anyway but thanks for playing….
Just FYI, I had 2016 Q5 PP for 4 years, and never had 26 mpg. It was always around 20-22 mpg.
mangrove79
Member
Nothing wrong with that, but I am curious as to whether you still like diesel as much as when you bought it now that you've driven EVs. I know the natural reflex psychologically is to blur out "Yes" without thinking. If the answer is really yes, what is still attractive about diesel? If it's about towing power, I can understand and I would categorize it under utility. For me, after I got my Tesla, I would never buy another ICE. I feel repelled by the concept. My dream car used to be Porsche Macan Turbo for many years (in the category of affordable dream cars, that is). But now, if you give me one for free and I'll have to drive it every day, I would say no to that.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I got an email today from Kia America with their definitive comparison of the EV6 vs. the Model Y...
Thanks for the detailed analysis Kia!
Thanks for the detailed analysis Kia!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Wow! It looks like Kia totally has Tesla beat in every category!I got an email today from Kia America with their definitive comparison of the EV6 vs. the Model Y...
View attachment 809190
Thanks for the detailed analysis Kia!
someone had better send that to Elon pronto!
I like these threads because you'll get extremes on both sides but the reality is there is this huge middle ground where everyone can play.
Been driving a PHEV for 4 years and decided I don't use enough gas so I could go straight EV. At the time, Model Y was the only real game in town because Kona and Niro EVs were too small. Once I got it, it was so awesome... until we added a 22 Leaf. That just made stuff that I missed (mainly out of convenience) more apparent... softer ride (yes I know, subjective), driver display, physical controls for climate and sound system. It sort of sullied my Tesla experience but I can appreciate both executions of an EV. I recently got an ICE (full sized truck)... and that was a shocker... esp how it drives. But then that also allowed me to understand the pros/cons of EV and ICE. I still prefer EV but once there are larger EVs (SUVs not Trucks). we are definitely getting one (as long as it cost less than an X).
I really like the Ioniq5, more so than the EV6... but just small things like almost non-existent frunk, less back storage etc gives Tesla the edge. But at today's prices, I think I would end up with an Ioniq5 (or even a Mach-E) and not really regret it ($7500 credit helps with that).
At current MY prices, an R1S is probably a better choice... but you would have to wait 2-3 years. I'm actually hoping the VinFast VF9 comes out first... or maybe a Fisker Ocean.
At any rate, choice is good... Tesla will continue to lead... but going either way is great for EVs as a whole.
Been driving a PHEV for 4 years and decided I don't use enough gas so I could go straight EV. At the time, Model Y was the only real game in town because Kona and Niro EVs were too small. Once I got it, it was so awesome... until we added a 22 Leaf. That just made stuff that I missed (mainly out of convenience) more apparent... softer ride (yes I know, subjective), driver display, physical controls for climate and sound system. It sort of sullied my Tesla experience but I can appreciate both executions of an EV. I recently got an ICE (full sized truck)... and that was a shocker... esp how it drives. But then that also allowed me to understand the pros/cons of EV and ICE. I still prefer EV but once there are larger EVs (SUVs not Trucks). we are definitely getting one (as long as it cost less than an X).
I really like the Ioniq5, more so than the EV6... but just small things like almost non-existent frunk, less back storage etc gives Tesla the edge. But at today's prices, I think I would end up with an Ioniq5 (or even a Mach-E) and not really regret it ($7500 credit helps with that).
At current MY prices, an R1S is probably a better choice... but you would have to wait 2-3 years. I'm actually hoping the VinFast VF9 comes out first... or maybe a Fisker Ocean.
At any rate, choice is good... Tesla will continue to lead... but going either way is great for EVs as a whole.
Nyc_rock
Member
Two very different points. While I don’t like not having car play I understand that tesla doesn’t want to offer it. Hyundai offers it but does it half assed. If you’re going to offer car play with a wireless phone charger then make car play wireless. Seems pretty simple to me. Especially considering Hyundai offers it on their other cars.
LOL at AR HUDI got an email today from Kia America with their definitive comparison of the EV6 vs. the Model Y...
View attachment 809190
Thanks for the detailed analysis Kia!
Not sure why people want Apple car play. I always had it with the previous vehicles but never used once. Wireless car play is the worst with delay and sync issues.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Still miss it for multiple reasons that I won’t go into here.
As far as wireless car play goes, I’d rather have an old fashioned cable. Wireless charging is intrinsically slower, less efficient and therefore more wasteful. Even Apple’s mag safe system which is about the best on the market is only 75% efficient. If you multiply that by all the phones in the US you end up with a ton of wasted energy - kind of the antithesis of why we drive an EV.
Beyond that, most wireless Charging systems are much less reliable, especially in a moving vehicle. I have troubles using the wireless charging pad in my model Y because it will quit charging if my phone is not perfectly positioned. My phone will routinely slide a bit when I take a turn and then stop charging without me noticing. Even when it does charge it charges quite slowly so I really can’t rely on it to do much for me.
I recently got to try out wireless Android Auto in a Kia K5 rental while our Tesla MYP was in the shop getting a bumper ding fixed. I hadn't previously had much experience with Apple Car Play or Android Auto, but I've got to say I wasn't impressed at all. The Display was Awful, reminded me of a cheap 90's type of look and the icons were huge and resolution was just terrible. The music would constantly cut out, I would assume due to buffering the wireless connectivity. I know some of this can be attributed to the vehicle, but I was so glad to get back into our MYP with the nice resolution and good connectivity and system that doesn't look like an old cell phone.
gx9901
Active Member
I've actually never owned a car with CarPlay, but now have plenty of experience using it since most other cars I've driven (rentals, wife's old car, mom's cars, etc) all have it. I certainly wouldn't mind having CarPlay in the Tesla, but at this point when I see CarPlay, it sort of screams "rental car" to me. It's probably still the best way to access your cellphone compared to most OEM Bluetooth software though, but I don't find myself yearning for it at all. In fact, when I do use CarPlay, I find myself missing the Tesla interface.
My experience with CarPlay in our Telluride has been ok and definitely better than the built in infotainment system of any car I have owned. It's annoying to have to plug in the phone every time but worth it for Nav. I tried an aftermarket wireless dongle thing but that has been completely unreliable and not even worth using anymore.
However, now that I have the MY, I very much prefer the built in infotainment system over CarPlay. I feel like CarPlay is a good solution for crappy OEM infotainment systems but not needed with the MY. Love spotify, nav works great, great resolution, very snappy, etc.
However, now that I have the MY, I very much prefer the built in infotainment system over CarPlay. I feel like CarPlay is a good solution for crappy OEM infotainment systems but not needed with the MY. Love spotify, nav works great, great resolution, very snappy, etc.
CarPlay for Nav is much better than built-in Tomtom based maps that never get updated. I’ve had 2 vehicles now with CarPlay (both Honda Odysseys) and it just works. It’s not that it’s that great, it’s just much better than OEM infotainment including the ones on high end cars like Mercedes, and Audis. The bar is just set incredibly low for cars which is why it took forever to get CarPlay and Android Auto. Tesla at least updates their OS relatively often over the air and uses online current sources for data. I just wish I could use Apple Music with the vehicle natively and also Waze for map data. If Tesla wants to integrate their mapping system with Waze data, that would also be better. I kind of wish that Tesla would take visual data (like where speed traps and cameras are) and allow users to update the data like Waze so we get aggregated data across the system.
Yeah the only thing I miss on CarPlay is Waze. There’s nothing else on the market that is faster than Tesla nav from entering input to start driving. Its POI autocomplete is just miles better any other built in infotainment system. Get in the car, type 1-2 letters in nav and one click off I go. Truly impressive, and I prefer this over waiting for CarPlay to connect, get in CarPlay menu, open google map, type in destination…etc.
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