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Is Autopilot at fault in this accident?
- Thread starter DanCar
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
"Fault" is the wrong word. It's just like when the baby is falling down from the table, is that the baby's fault or babysitter's?
It's true that the baby should know better not to fall but at that age, it's expected.
It's the same with autopilot, it could do better but since it's beta, accidents can be expected.
Legally, the one in the existing lane has the right of way. The truck in this scenario has to make sure the destination lane is clear before finishing the lane change.
So legally, the truck is at fault but technologically, the automation system is to prevent accidents as much as possible even when it has the right of way. So, yes, Autopilot could do better but it cannot at current and that is expected until this scenario is coded.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Legally, I don't think AP is at fault because AP is not fully autonomous. AP is a driver assist that is not designed to handle this situation. You can't fault a system for not doing something that it is not designed to do. Also, the driver of the semi truck initiated the lane change so they would be at fault for not checking to make the lane was clear. However, it is possible that the small Model 3 was in the semi truck's blind spot. The driver of the semi truck did turn on the turn signal well in advanced and might have assumed that the Model 3 would see it.
But we can see why AP might fail to prevent the accident. I don't think AP is able to read turn signals so it could not detect when the truck turned it's turn signal on to indicate a lane change. Also, once the semi started to make the lane change, I don't think the Tesla sensors are capable of reliably detecting the truck because the ultrasonic sensor would pass under the truck and at such close range, I am not sure the cameras would reliably recognize the side of a white trailer. Basically, at close range, the B pillar would just see a white side. It would not be able to reliably detect distance and velocity of the entire truck just from that.
But that is the whole point of a driver assist. It is only designed to do certain tasks like lane keeping to assist the driver. It is not designed to handle all of the driving. The human driver should have noticed the truck's turn signal and intervened.
The car isn't obligated to yield to the truck, the truck is obligated to yield to traffic already in the lane.
Absolutely avoidable, but ultimately the truck driver's fault.
Absolutely avoidable, but ultimately the truck driver's fault.
In some parts, a turn signal is a request, in other parts, it's a warning. I see this every damn day in NJ. Truck (or car) sees a gap -- even one too small to fit them -- and it's expected the other driver will yield. Truck was at fault in this one.
What is the car driver saying? Was he using Autopilot with the expectation that it would prevent this kind of accident?
To say, and I agree, that the truck driver is at fault, and the car driver should be paying attention is correct. But people who use AP and similar driver assist systems must see merging traffic like this constantly. Are driver's expectations too high if the systems can't avoid crashing?
To say, and I agree, that the truck driver is at fault, and the car driver should be paying attention is correct. But people who use AP and similar driver assist systems must see merging traffic like this constantly. Are driver's expectations too high if the systems can't avoid crashing?
FloridaJohn
Member
Yes, expectations are too high. This is a driver assist system, not an autonomous driver system. Driver should be paying attention and prepared to take over at any time for any reason. There should be no expectation of the car doing the right thing.
Dan203
Active Member
Absolutely this. Not only was their not enough room between the cars for the truck to get over, but his lane change was very sudden and abrupt. Even if the driver wasn't using autopilot I'm not sure he could have avoided this. Maybe he would have been more inclined to slow down and let the truck over when he saw the blinker, but that's not a reason to blame autopilot for the truckers bad driving.
Agree. The truck driver’s move was incredibly unsafe, and they should and do know better. Didn’t watch the entire video to hear any aftermath, but truck driver should be cited for sure.
Jjmboni
Member
From the video: "When it hit Aaron's Tesla, the glass from the passenger side exploded throughout the cabin and all over Aaron" ... causing him to wake up.
Clearly the truck driver's fault, but there were so many signs the truck was changing lanes. Any attentive driver would've been able to avoid that accident entirely.
Clearly the truck driver's fault, but there were so many signs the truck was changing lanes. Any attentive driver would've been able to avoid that accident entirely.
OP, you seem to have attracted the attention of some Tesla fanboys. My take: Autopilot knows to brake if there is a car ahead of you that needs to be avoided; the same happens to me when a car/truck is coming onto the highway from a ramp. More than once, my Model 3 has braked rapidly because it thought the car on the ramp was too close, even when I was 1 lane over. Of course, in your case, the truck was at fault but I'm surprised that the Autopilot didn't notice and react.
This didnt happen to the OP, the OP simply "sharing a story they found online" and "generating discussion around autopilot failures or supposed failures".
Laguna M3
Member
Well, except a BMW driver...
Seriously, that is exactly what I was thinking when I watched the video the first time - if I was driving, I would have absolutely slowed down to let the truck in, which would have avoided the accident.
teslcls
Member
Truck driver deserves ticket for failing to yield right of way. Tesla driver deserves ticket for failing to avoid an avoidable accident. Drivers are in charge, not equipment. Insurance "fault" is a matter of law in each state.
My first thought was, autopilot was not active. I experience situations like this fairly often. When a truck, or any other car, makes even the slightest incursion into my lane, autopilot always, invariably, brakes to avoid a collision.
I am under the impression that many people, after an accident, state that it was the autopilot's fault. Meanwhile I tend towards not believing this.
I tried to detect whether autopilot was on by checking whether the car was not precisely tracking the lane, but as far as I can tell, it was. So perhaps the autopilot was active in this case. If so, then I would consider this an autopilot malfunction.
Ultimately the autopilot can't be faulted, because it is only an unreliable beta test function, requiring full driver attention and authority, but everybody here is aware of that.
Perhaps the autopilot cannot always recognize large white surfaces like the side of this truck. I remember some other accidents with large, white trucks.
I am under the impression that many people, after an accident, state that it was the autopilot's fault. Meanwhile I tend towards not believing this.
I tried to detect whether autopilot was on by checking whether the car was not precisely tracking the lane, but as far as I can tell, it was. So perhaps the autopilot was active in this case. If so, then I would consider this an autopilot malfunction.
Ultimately the autopilot can't be faulted, because it is only an unreliable beta test function, requiring full driver attention and authority, but everybody here is aware of that.
Perhaps the autopilot cannot always recognize large white surfaces like the side of this truck. I remember some other accidents with large, white trucks.
A few years ago I had exactly the same thing happen...in a Toyota. Truck is at fault. Being on autopilot is irrelevant.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Easy one: Truck driver's fault. Doesn't matter if the car he hit was in Autopilot or a horse-drawn carriage. You simply can't cram your car into an occupied lane and blame the car that was already there. If you want in another lane it's on you to make sure it's clear before entering the other lane. Autopilot didn't yield because it doesn't have to just like a human driver doesn't have to.
MikeHolliday
Member
It does not matter if your turn signal is own or not. The truck does not have the right to move to the left lane when it is clear and safe.
I would have called Shari back immediately...
Obviously the semi's fault, but the Tesla driver should have seen that the semi had wanted to change lanes for a while, and while he had no obligation to slow, the end result is not pretty when a semi wants to force his way in. As someone else noted, semis will sometimes intimidate the vehicles around them, by just forcing their way in. They know a collision will unlikely lead to their injury, so they throw their weight around. You have to be careful around semis. I hope the Tesla driver recovers fully.
Obviously the semi's fault, but the Tesla driver should have seen that the semi had wanted to change lanes for a while, and while he had no obligation to slow, the end result is not pretty when a semi wants to force his way in. As someone else noted, semis will sometimes intimidate the vehicles around them, by just forcing their way in. They know a collision will unlikely lead to their injury, so they throw their weight around. You have to be careful around semis. I hope the Tesla driver recovers fully.
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True but beside the point. If someone does something bad and you react to avoid an accident, then that’s great but it doesn’t make the bad first move any less bad. I suspect that the truck driver WAS assuming the Tesla would slow down to let him in, but he really has no right, legal or otherwise, to assume that.
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