M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?

[MasterC17]

Has anybody compiled a list of performance mods for a P3D with cost and the resultant increase in performance?

It would be good to get some kind of summary database of all the speed parts.

It's almost like someone has done this MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

FWIW, Springs are for looks, not for improving handling. If you want to improve handling you are going to need coilovers. MPP's Comfort Coilovers are a decent bang for your buck.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Springs by themselves will usually enhance handling if they lower the vehicle.

 

[dfwatt]

Springs by themselves will usually enhance handling if they lower the vehicle.

Well it might but without replacing the shocks you don't know if you're going to actually make the pogoing and the other somewhat strange behaviour over certain surfaces Better or Worse. That's the great thing about getting a sport coilover kit from from highly reputable like MPP or Redwood they at least have in theory paid some attention to tuning out those problematic interactions

 

[MasterC17]

Springs by themselves will usually enhance handling if they lower the vehicle.

MPP wrote a pretty good article about this here (Suspension Tech - Springs vs Coilovers | Mountain Pass Performance)

That being said, I would say that the majority of the handling improvements from springs are placebo and not an actual improvement. Yes, a lower center of gravity is "good", but pairing short springs with a damper that has limited travel and wasn't designed for such springs is going be a less-than-ideal result.

 

[Uncle Paul]

MPP has done a lot of work to develop their suspension upgrades. Imagine people will get better results buying their system over just springs, but cost is usually a consideration as well.

 

[MasterC17]

MPP has done a lot of work to develop their suspension upgrades. Imagine people will get better results buying their system over just springs, but cost is usually a consideration as well.

If I have learned anything over the years of modifying cars, it's that you do it once and you do it right.

Trying to go with the economical option usually ends up with you spending twice as much money to achieve the same end result. Been there, done that - more times than I would like to admit lol!

 

[ULEWZ]

It's almost like someone has done this MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

FWIW, Springs are for looks, not for improving handling. If you want to improve handling you are going to need coilovers. MPP's Comfort Coilovers are a decent bang for your buck.

Interesting, but mostly for the track. Nice to know about the springs. I guess I will stick with sways first. Most of my bonus going towards wheels. I wish Bilstein would make some shocks for this car. Loved those on my vette.

 

[Dolemite]

MPP has done a lot of work to develop their suspension upgrades. Imagine people will get better results buying their system over just springs, but cost is usually a consideration as well.

5x consideration.

If I have learned anything over the years of modifying cars, it's that you do it once and you do it right.

Trying to go with the economical option usually ends up with you spending twice as much money to achieve the same end result. Been there, done that - more times than I would like to admit lol!

Same theory goes with tools - Buy once, cry once.

 

[Jenremoved]

I'm gonna say it again - the P3D is very capable. We can all agree to that. Comparing it to an F80 M3 is a bit premature, IMO.

Honda Civic : Honda Civic Si :: Model 3 : Model 3 Performance+

A regular 3 Series is only vaguely comparable to an M3. They are completely different machines. It's up to owners to "finish" building out the P3D (if that's what they want). Even then, unless we get absolutely crazy, the modifications won't be as extensive as an F80 M3. The M3 doesn't even share the majority of its body panels w/ a regular 3 series. It has flared arches, a completely different drivetrain, and comes with Oakley Radarlocks and a Bluetooth earpiece included.

We should appreciate that we're comparing a 2 year-old EV that Tesla can barely put together with a super-sedan that basically invented the category over decades... I hope to see Tesla carve out an ///M or AMG-like division at some point that'll churn out even crazier cars.

I don’t really care about the ostentatious body parts. And one can wax poetic all one wants about M divisions, it doesn’t really change how the cars fare head to head. The reality is that Tesla built a car that beats the BMW at its own game (and it’s as much a testament to the decline of the BMW M3 as it is to Tesla.). As someone who cross shopped the F80 M3, C63S, and the RS3, I know what I’d choose every time - I’m driving it. Marketing hype about “history” doesn’t really matter when the car doesn’t hold up against its competitors. (And yes, I’ve owned previous M-cars.)

 

[Zcd1]

I'm gonna say it again - the P3D is very capable. We can all agree to that. Comparing it to an F80 M3 is a bit premature, IMO.

Don't forget that Mr. Musk himself compared it to the M3 when it was first announced, and that the M3/Giulia QF/C63S/RS5 are all M3P competitors...

Body panels don't mean much to performance.

 

[Mash]

I have the sports coilover kit + camber arms plus rear Tow-in arms plus traction and trailing arms. I do not notice nor did I measure increased noise. When I measured noise on the highway at 75 I got the exact same value on the exact same stretch of road. I do notice however a vast Improvement in steering feel, transient response, and ability to handle very high lateral acceleration without drama or some of the previous twitchiness, particularly coming from the rear. I would describe it as a transformation in Dynamics without any increase in noise vibration or harshness and actually a somewhat better controlled albeit significantly firmer ride, without any of the pitching or pogoing that the car sometime showed in challenging circumstances and with significantly reduced body roll and brake and acceleration dive and squat also.

I can't say that I notice any increase vibrational harshness either. I do not have the MPP front upper control arm however. Do you have any actual data supporting your assertion? Or are you just talking about some subjective personal impression? As you know those are totally vulnerable to confirmation bias.

And while we're on the subject of the stock OEM suspension, while we all are aware of some of its limitations I think for a stock suspension it struck a pretty good balance between ride and handling. Most of us on this thread would probably have wanted the balance pitched to better handling perhaps at some sacrifice in ride but the car was not exactly terrible handling to begin with. And for a car with 35 series tires and basically one inch of sidewall and very heavy cast OEM wheels, I have to say that the ride in the stock suspension was pretty good too.

NVH increase is not very high. Comparable to pressure change of tires. Most people would not notice. But even just because of harder springs alone, you going to have more vibrations. It's still totally worth it for me.

 

[Dolemite]

and it’s as much a testament to the decline of the BMW M3 as it is to Tesla

ya. That's why I got this car. But you can't say that decades of Motorsport experience amounts to just marketing hype - even if they milk it for all it's worth. They did invent this game. I'm not sure I'd put money on a P3D over an M3 around the Nurburgring...

Don't get me started on newer BMWs. They are awful and I hate them with a burning passion. I think it's disgusting how they're putting the ///M badge on everything they can get their hands on, including mommy wagons. There's a reason that the people who made BMWs cool in the first place are increasingly finding themselves in Teslas.

Don't forget that Mr. Musk himself compared it to the M3 when it was first announced, and that the M3/Giulia QF/C63S/RS5 are all M3P competitors...

Body panels don't mean much to performance.

I can see how what I said could be misinterpreted - I think it's impressive we're comparing the TM3 to the likes of those cars.

Also the different panels in this case translate to a track width about ~2" wider than a regular 3 Series.

 

[ElectroFish]

I love my Tesla but it's no M3.

The handling on my comp m3 vs m3p isn't even comparable in my opinion. I'm pretty disappointed in the high speed float and the looks of the "sport" springs on my m3p. The m3 with it's adjustable shocks and flatter corner just felt more sporty. Adding springs made it even better . If you are keeping it under 100 the stock m3p suspension will be just fine. I will be trying springs first but I believe the shocks are the weak link .

Braking is pretty bad . Braking in the m3 at high speed was steady and straight and very confidence inspiring. Braking in the model 3 is very odd it gets very wobbly and I'm constantly getting front tire tires to engage abs. I will be upgrading pads but I doubt that will help much the abs issue .

Speed:. The m3 was insanely fast and exciting but very dangerous with the mods I had (570 whp) while the model 3 is very fast off the line and consistent . Mid range seems to be great and from a roll race there is a huge advantage compared to an ice car. Top end is quick but not insane . My only issue is it's just safe feeling which is good and bad.

 

[dfwatt]

NVH increase is not very high. Comparable to pressure change of tires. Most people would not notice. But even just because of harder springs alone, you going to have more vibrations. It's still totally worth it for me.

It's not simply that the NVH increase isn't very high from a Sport coilover kit. There really isn't an increase. If you believe that there is, please provide data and objective evidence.

 

[bobesser]

When I bought the M3P+, I was cross shopping and driving several cars. I drove the Gulia, an M340i XDrive, a souped up S4 (with pully and tune). I beat the hell out of all of those cars during test drives. I have a NB miata with a highly tuned suspension on 245 tires as my play car (I run in STR class autocross). I also drove a couple Corvettes at autocrosses, an M2, and probably a few others I can't remember. I have owned and autocrossed a Neon SRT-4, 993 Porsche, a JCW Mini Cooper, E46 M3, E90 M3, and even once a Prius!

When I was shopping, my impressions were: It accelerates like a Corvette, it handles like an M340i xDrive, and it is numb like an S4.

Having had the car for over a year now, I have never autocrossed it, so, no update there. Every morning, I walk past the STR Miata and take the Tesla nearly every time - because when I am going to work, I want comfort and composure and relaxation. The Tesla has all of that, and if I get too tired of traffic, I kick in autopilot and relax some more. Then, when it is time to exit, I hit the cloverleaf with agression and have some fun.

 

[Mash]

It's not simply that the NVH increase isn't very high from a Sport coilover kit. There really isn't an increase. If you believe that there is, please provide data and objective evidence.

I don't know why you decided that I'm talking about coilovers, because I'm not. I was answering about all MPP suspension mods and I'm talking arms mostly. And in my case right now I have springs clunking noise on pots (that I intend to fix) and higher tires noise from the rear that I can live with.

 

[MasterC17]

Depending on the track either the F80 M3 or Performance Model 3 would have a quicker lap time. Lower speed tracks the Model 3 will be faster. Higher speed tracks the M3 will be faster. The M3 will start pulling on the Model 3 pretty hard over about 110mph.

You can see this pretty clearly in my video here at 1 min 24 seconds.

 

[dfwatt]

I don't know why you decided that I'm talking about coilovers, because I'm not. I was answering about all MPP suspension mods and I'm talking arms mostly. And in my case right now I have springs clunking noise on pots (that I intend to fix) and higher tires noise from the rear that I can live with.

Well okay - I guess this is a classic case of two people talking past each other. But when somebody talks about NVH being increased, in most people's minds means more than clunking Springs. Unfortunately clunking Springs have been around for as long as we've had aftermarket Springs.

I was talking more about road harshness, various forms of vibration and road noise. I do not believe that a properly designed coilover kit or for that matter properly designed Springs increase tire and road noises. I wonder if the springs that you put in resulted in the removal of the critical isolator on the bottom of the spring perch? If so that would explain your increased road noise.

 

[Carolina Karl]

Can't weigh in yet on performance, as I'm taking delivery of a M3 this coming week. I intentionally didn't get the Performance package, as I'm keeping my Porsche.

I'm getting a new license plate for the Porsche that reads: "ICE FIX".

 

[dfwatt]

MPP has done a lot of work to develop their suspension upgrades. Imagine people will get better results buying their system over just springs, but cost is usually a consideration as well.

Yes unfortunately we're talking about a pretty decent chunk of change for the MPP sport coilover kit. And even more for the Redwood sport coilovers. But I think echoing another poster on this thread, I bought cheap coilover kits before and regretted it. Some of the inexpensive ones were pretty good although none were as nearly as good as Mountain Pass but some of them were really junk and had to be replaced. And although Springs look like an appealing and cheaper alternative they're really not, as you can get into all kinds of problems with a lowered suspension on those stock shocks. And much of the difficulty with the stock suspension anyway, aside from its ride height, is with the shocks. The spring rates aren't bad, but the shocks just simply don't control oscillations and weight shift aggressively enough.