Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[aronth5]

FSD drives like an 8-year-old, which is only a little behind since Tesla is about 9 years old.

Hard to believe but Tesla was founded in 2003. Doesn't change that FSD drives like an 8 year old!!

 

[wtwieder]

Hard to believe but Tesla was founded in 2003. Doesn't change that FSD drives like an 8 year old!!

Hmm, I can't remember ever seeing an 8 year old drive. Have you?

 

[agordon117]

Agree on all three of those.

Btw - is it just me or does the freeway AP seem slightly worse now than before? Could be because it’s relying solely on vision now but during a freeway drive I took today I swear it wasn’t as “solid” as I remember from before. Wondering what others think?

for me, freeway AP is definitely worse. Radar AP was great, and now they moved to a half baked solution instead of allowing radar vehicles to keep radar until vision has matured. I get that FSD is vision only at this point, but I'm annoyed that it wasn't covered in advance that moving back to radar AP would not be possible after enrolling in FSD beta.

I also can't seem to figure out what does and doesn't count as FSD on the highway. With NoA off, it will blow past exits on the highway. With NoA on, it will know to take them. I was under the impression that you need a destination, and NoA off to enable highway FSD (taking exits and such). Doesn't seem to be the case though.

 

[agordon117]

I've used FSD now for a handful of trips to and from work, and the experience varies wildly.

-Right hand turn at a red light. Semi coming from my left made a right turn onto the street I was leaving. FSD started to go, but I stopped it because I knew it couldn't have seen if there was a car crossing the intersection that was obstructed by the semi, and sure enough, there was.

-Frequently misses exits (or takes them too violently) and picks the wrong lane when two highways split apart. Starts drifting into the wrong highway and must be corrected. NoA or not.

-Turn signal activation is all over the place. Way too late every time, and frequently I'll end up having made a turn with the opposite turn signal on (turning left, will end up after the turn with the right signal on). A turn signal should never be turned on after braking has already started. It should always signal, then brake.

-Following with the previous point, turns are started way too late. With or without turn lanes, a high rate of speed is maintained for too long, and then the turn is made at too high of a rate of speed AND acceleration. The car frequently won't even get all of the way into the turn lane, requiring intervention to not take up 2 lanes to turn.

-Hair pin turns are really rough. It seems like the system is designed to accelerate through turns, and so by the end of a hair pin, I've already gone to 35mph in a very short time. I normally take turns at a moderate rate of speed, but I don't accelerate through them like FSD does. That will definitely cause some issues in winter if they don't address it (not that I am really confident in testing FSD with snow on the road right anyway).

-This morning, I was behind a semi turning left to get onto the highway. FSD got into the turn lane fine, but then after like 2 seconds of the semi turning (which would have probably been a 10 second process), it decided to try to go around the semi. Where it thought it was going to go, I'm not entirely sure. The semi was currently occupying the on ramp that I needed to turn onto. It was VERY confident about deciding to go around though. It was one of those scenarios where I would have liked to see it play out to know what the car thought it was doing. But when it does stupid things so confidently, you just can't let it continue, no matter how few cars are on the road.

 

[nvx1977]

Here’s a video of mine from today showing the neighborhood issues. Very poor production value, and the commentary is painful - and sorry for the mild profanities. I don’t plan to make many more videos; it’s too much effort.

In any case in the video description there are links to relevant time stamps to help speed up viewing.

I discuss this neighborhood issue around 12:40.

I can’t get chapters to work on YouTube. Possibly because I have no subscribers or it’s deemed offensive content. It’s not clear why they don’t work, but I also don’t want subscribers. Sorry the chapters are not fully working. Outside of my control - I got them to show up in a video before but now they have disappeared for good it seems. Just use the links! (Open to suggestions if there is a formatting issue that someone can see.)

Hopefully for those without FSD Beta this accurately captures the current state of a very typical drive. I really focused on describing the “seat feel.” It may seem like I am complaining a lot, but I am used to needing to drive fairly smoothly; my wife complains if I do not chauffeur competently. Every single jerk that I felt, I commented on. It may seem like I intervened too much, but every one (except the one where I placed my pin in the wrong spot and disengaged to drive past it) was necessary.

This drive was not cherry picked for being poor; it represents a fairly typical drive for me. If there were no traffic, I would not have disengaged on some of these turns. But with other vehicles around, this is all very typical for required disengagements, to avoid having any other driver notice that I am using FSD Beta.

Summary:
1) Smooth stopping is very rare.
2) Smooth steering is somewhat rare.
3) Acceleration is usually not bold enough, but sometimes too bold. Context ignorant.
4) At intersections, FSD Beta frequently sets up in the wrong spot, far short of where it needs to be.

Commenting on what I saw in your vid:

I think a lot of the unnecessary braking while just driving is due to the shadows on the ground. For me, they are light brakes (nothing like the phantom brakes on the highway when it thinks an overpass is an obstruction), but still annoying. I had an overcast day here where the car was much smoother when cruising.

What's the red thingy at the base of your right stalk?

There's def a bug where the turn signal gets stuck after a disengage.

around 14:10, notice how you couldn't get back into FSD because the system wasn't ready. The gray AP wheel was coming off and on. This is what I was referring to in my post. When the car is driving in the middle of the unmarked road, it's actually in a state of confusion, and if you weren't in FSD mode already, it wouldn't give you the option to start it up in those moments. If you do that segment again, just turn off FSD and watch how much the gray AP icon flashes off and on.

14:45 - didn't realize you could cancel the turn signal with the right stalk! So the stuck signal is part of TACC, and when you disengage TACC, it turns off the signal....

Nice vid. TBH, the roads where you live are so well-marked and intuitive compared to stuff here in New England, but I feel like the car performed about the same. Lots of jerkiness on the wheel and the brakes, stopping too early, not consistently anticipating lane changes for route planning, etc.

 

[boonedocks]

I've used FSD now for a handful of trips to and from work, and the experience varies wildly.

-Right hand turn at a red light. Semi coming from my left made a right turn onto the street I was leaving. FSD started to go, but I stopped it because I knew it couldn't have seen if there was a car crossing the intersection that was obstructed by the semi, and sure enough, there was.

-Frequently misses exits (or takes them too violently) and picks the wrong lane when two highways split apart. Starts drifting into the wrong highway and must be corrected. NoA or not.

-Turn signal activation is all over the place. Way too late every time, and frequently I'll end up having made a turn with the opposite turn signal on (turning left, will end up after the turn with the right signal on). A turn signal should never be turned on after braking has already started. It should always signal, then brake.

-Following with the previous point, turns are started way too late. With or without turn lanes, a high rate of speed is maintained for too long, and then the turn is made at too high of a rate of speed AND acceleration. The car frequently won't even get all of the way into the turn lane, requiring intervention to not take up 2 lanes to turn.

-Hair pin turns are really rough. It seems like the system is designed to accelerate through turns, and so by the end of a hair pin, I've already gone to 35mph in a very short time. I normally take turns at a moderate rate of speed, but I don't accelerate through them like FSD does. That will definitely cause some issues in winter if they don't address it (not that I am really confident in testing FSD with snow on the road right anyway).

-This morning, I was behind a semi turning left to get onto the highway. FSD got into the turn lane fine, but then after like 2 seconds of the semi turning (which would have probably been a 10 second process), it decided to try to go around the semi. Where it thought it was going to go, I'm not entirely sure. The semi was currently occupying the on ramp that I needed to turn onto. It was VERY confident about deciding to go around though. It was one of those scenarios where I would have liked to see it play out to know what the car thought it was doing. But when it does stupid things so confidently, you just can't let it continue, no matter how few cars are on the road.

Can’t help but think after reading that that the Safety Score would be in the single digits with FSD Beta as a daily driver

 

[agordon117]

Can’t help but think after reading that that the Safety Score would be in the single digits with FSD Beta as a daily driver

It for sure would have 100% aggressive turning. From the instant it starts turning, it's over that g force threshold because it's accelerating so hard. The braking would be bad as well.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

braking while just driving is due to the shadows on the ground.

I agree that this is one cause (it’s just like AP!). I noticed on one of the slowdowns as I was rewatching last night that there was a substantial shadow on the road. There were a couple brief hiccups that could not be explained that way though. Could have been a vehicle turning in from a side road two lanes away, I suppose. And in another case (7:00) I could see no reason at all.

What's the red thingy at the base of your right stalk

Hand sanitizer bottle.

consistently anticipating lane changes for route planning, etc.

Yes. BTW, did do a video report of this just after the video ended. I don’t find that most of the time I even think of pressing this button. Usually too much going on.

 

[aronth5]

Hmm, I can't remember ever seeing an 8 year old drive. Have you?

Bumper cars and go carts.
FSD certainly drives worse then a new student driver but hopefully that will change quickly.

 

[Bill Price]

I was gonna let my nephew drive my car to get a good baseline but unfortunately he can’t reach the pedals :-(

Duct tape and 2x4's will solve that problem?

 

[spokey]

Questions to the community (now that many have had at least a couple days to play with beta FSD):

1) With all the jerkiness in the steering and braking, given this has been the situation with beta for over a year, and given that this in not a drive by wire system, but rather a mechanical one, is anyone concerned that this beta FSD software is accelerating the wear of the cars components (steering, suspension, brakes, etc.)?

2) While many enjoy, use regularly, and see the benefit of highway AP, NoA, and FSD, do you feel the same way about using FSD “around town”? Let’s say you own a “P” model of Tesla; wouldn’t you enjoy driving more then letting a L2 FSD system take you in your “P” Tesla around town? Currently, I think I would enjoy my Plaid more around town if I drove it, vs a much improved L2 FSD system that my never get to L4/L5 while I own it.

3) While I enjoy playing with beta FSD, and being part of the beta testing team during this pivotal auto evolvution, I don’t see myself preferring to use it “comfortably” until L3/L4/L5 happens. Right now, and for the near future (1-2 years), to use it around town seems much more stressful than just driving, save for the beta tester comments above. Makes for a good parlor trick for friends and family though, like Smart Summon was in the early days.

Your thoughts and rational?
@diplomat33

1 - Not before you mentioned, but now I'm thinking about it. Thanks a lot buster! I'm thinking no to brakes as the are used far less normally anyway. Maybe to steering and tossup on suspension. My current theory is the jerkiness & creeping/stop is fsd getting more/better camera info before proceeding. I'm think that it occurs more at intersections where for one reason or another it's having trouble 'seeing' on the other road.

2 - no 'P' just LR with AB but I find myself taking a break from the beta just to unwind. Drive with less stress.

3 - I don't plan on using it too much on a regular basis around town until it gets better than my declining mental status. That is the reason I got FSD to begin with. In the hopes that I can stay in my house and say get to the grocery store. Hopefully I make to the next vehicle which I figure might be an MS if I've given up my bicycles. But one good thing. Kids can't take away my keys!

 

[mackgriggs]

Here’s a video of mine from today showing the neighborhood issues. Very poor production value, and the commentary is painful - and sorry for the mild profanities. I don’t plan to make many more videos; it’s too much effort.

In any case in the video description there are links to relevant time stamps to help speed up viewing.

I discuss this neighborhood issue around 12:40.

I can’t get chapters to work on YouTube. Possibly because I have no subscribers or it’s deemed offensive content. It’s not clear why they don’t work, but I also don’t want subscribers. Sorry the chapters are not fully working. Outside of my control - I got them to show up in a video before but now they have disappeared for good it seems. Just use the links! (Open to suggestions if there is a formatting issue that someone can see.)

Hopefully for those without FSD Beta this accurately captures the current state of a very typical drive. I really focused on describing the “seat feel.” It may seem like I am complaining a lot, but I am used to needing to drive fairly smoothly; my wife complains if I do not chauffeur competently. Every single jerk that I felt, I commented on. It may seem like I intervened too much, but every one (except the one where I placed my pin in the wrong spot and disengaged to drive past it) was necessary.

This drive was not cherry picked for being poor; it represents a fairly typical drive for me. If there were no traffic, I would not have disengaged on some of these turns. But with other vehicles around, this is all very typical for required disengagements, to avoid having any other driver notice that I am using FSD Beta.

Summary:
1) Smooth stopping is very rare.
2) Smooth steering is somewhat rare.
3) Acceleration is usually not bold enough, but sometimes too bold. Context ignorant.
4) At intersections, FSD Beta frequently sets up in the wrong spot, far short of where it needs to be.

Thanks for the video. Unrelated...what oversized cup holder insert did you buy and do you recommend it?

 

[aronth5]

This was my daily email to Tesla's FSDBeta team for yesterday

1. On roads with no center line when approaching an intersection the car should not stay in the center of the road or be left of center. It needs to stay on the right side. Otherwise cars trying to turn into the road are not able to since the my car is in the way. This would also avoid the problem of the car behind me trying to squeeze to my right.
2. Acceleration especially on residential streets from a stop is too fast. I understand the need sometimes to accelerate when a car is coming but when there is no traffic around gradual acceleration would be better.
3. When I'm turning right I would prefer the car turn slightly right when it stops at the intersection instead of pointing straight ahead. Several times today I disengaged since I could not be sure when pointed straight ahead whether the car when turning right would not cross over the center line with cars approach on the other side of the center line. Felt super unsafe.
4. Highway driving all too often wants to move into a faster lane when I'm approaching an exit. Just stay right and exit so I don't have to cancel the lane change. Or worse yet move over 1 lane making it more difficult to exit especially in heavy traffic.
5. Highway lane changes into a faster lane continue to be unsafe probably 25% of the time. Either because the car is approaching too fast or there isn't adequate room. Lots of pissed drivers when this happens.
6. I don't know how Tesla can fix this but the posted speed limit on lots of small residential roads is 30mph. Too fast and nobody on my street would ever drive that fast. If they did the neighbors would yell. Again its the legal limit so not sure what Tesla can do.
7. Speed bumps at 15 can be way too fast for some bumps. Would love a personal preference setting. I'd make it 10mph where I live.
8. When approaching am obstructed tight right hand turn in a residential area the car needs to be able to creep as it turns so it can tell if a car is coming out. There is zero visibility from the drivers seat and I always slow down to 5mph and creep as I turn into my street since there are evergreen trees that completely block visibility. Would have been a lot easier to program if there was a A pillar camera or cameras further forward.
9. The achilles' heel of FSD IMO is the lack of cameras closer to the front.
10. Would love a way to see what the front facing cameras (windshield) are seeing. Sometime I feel like I disengage when I shouldn't because I am further back and cannot see as well as the front camera..
11. Blinkers don't turn on soon enough. Not for the cars behind me but for the cars ahead who need to know if I'm turning or not.

 

[karbomusic]

Highway driving all too often wants to move into a faster lane when I'm approaching an exit. Just stay right and exit so I don't have to cancel the lane change. Or worse yet move over 1 lane making it more difficult to exit especially in heavy traffic.

It also happens with non-highway for me, to the point it's becoming frustrating. I'd not commented that much thinking it was me but no, it's FSD. Last night, for the n'th time, I was already in the right turn lane to make a right and out of nowhere it tries to change to the left lane. It knew it needed to take a right, the routing showed the turn, I'm only 100 feet from the turn, it decides to try to lane change to the left, straight lane.

On highways, pre beta and now, I'll be less than a mile from my exit, traffic heavy enough no one with a brain would get in the left lane as it would be impossible to get back over in that traffic to make the exit but my Tesla thinks that's a fine idea. With highway driving I fix it by just turning off NOA, but beta FSD ignores NOA when not on the highway so it will still attempt lane changes it really shouldn't be making.

 

[jebinc]

Bumper cars and go carts.
FSD certainly drives worse then a new student driver but hopefully that will change quickly.

This ^^^

It will be interesting to see the amount of change from 10.2 to 10.3, 10.4, etc. Pick a route, and drive that same route each and every time you get a new release (in the same conditions, at the same time, if possible) and comment on what your experience was (better, worse, the same). This way, we will be able to see what type of changes Tesla made between releases - if we all report on this.

 

[EVNow]

I don't know how Tesla can fix this but the posted speed limit on lots of small residential roads is 30mph. Too fast and nobody on my street would ever drive that fast. If they did the neighbors would yell. Again its the legal limit so not sure what Tesla can do.

Same here. They should have a separate limit / offset in preferences for residential roads.

I think most of your issues are already in the issues tracker, but you can use the form to input a couple that aren’t.

FSD Beta Issues - Input Form

Use this form to add a current issue you are having while using FSD Beta. Only include one issue on each input form. Your responses can be changed after being submitted.

docs.google.com

 

[jebinc]

This was my daily email to Tesla's FSDBeta team for yesterday

1. On roads with no center line when approaching an intersection the car should not stay in the center of the road or be left of center. It needs to stay on the right side. Otherwise cars trying to turn into the road are not able to since the my car is in the way. This would also avoid the problem of the car behind me trying to squeeze to my right.
2. Acceleration especially on residential streets from a stop is too fast. I understand the need sometimes to accelerate when a car is coming but when there is no traffic around gradual acceleration would be better.
3. When I'm turning right I would prefer the car turn slightly right when it stops at the intersection instead of pointing straight ahead. Several times today I disengaged since I could not be sure when pointed straight ahead whether the car when turning right would not cross over the center line with cars approach on the other side of the center line. Felt super unsafe.
4. Highway driving all too often wants to move into a faster lane when I'm approaching an exit. Just stay right and exit so I don't have to cancel the lane change. Or worse yet move over 1 lane making it more difficult to exit especially in heavy traffic.
5. Highway lane changes into a faster lane continue to be unsafe probably 25% of the time. Either because the car is approaching too fast or there isn't adequate room. Lots of pissed drivers when this happens.
6. I don't know how Tesla can fix this but the posted speed limit on lots of small residential roads is 30mph. Too fast and nobody on my street would ever drive that fast. If they did the neighbors would yell. Again its the legal limit so not sure what Tesla can do.
7. Speed bumps at 15 can be way too fast for some bumps. Would love a personal preference setting. I'd make it 10mph where I live.
8. When approaching am obstructed tight right hand turn in a residential area the car needs to be able to creep as it turns so it can tell if a car is coming out. There is zero visibility from the drivers seat and I always slow down to 5mph and creep as I turn into my street since there are evergreen trees that completely block visibility. Would have been a lot easier to program if there was a A pillar camera or cameras further forward.
9. The achilles' heel of FSD IMO is the lack of cameras closer to the front.
10. Would love a way to see what the front facing cameras (windshield) are seeing. Sometime I feel like I disengage when I shouldn't because I am further back and cannot see as well as the front camera..
11. Blinkers don't turn on soon enough. Not for the cars behind me but for the cars ahead who need to know if I'm turning or not.

@aronth5 Great observations; did you email them to fsdbeta @ tesla dot com?

 

[azred]

This ^^^

It will be interesting to see the amount of change from 10.2 to 10.3, 10.4, etc. Pick a route, and drive that same route each and every time you get a new release (in the same conditions, at the same time, if possible) and comment on what your experience was (better, worse, the same). This way, we will be able to see what type of changes Tesla made between releases - if we all report on this.

I have a hunch your proposed test comparison by FSD Beta release won’t work very well because I am getting different results for the same places on 10.2. For example there is a left turn lane on the street leading to my house. Sometimes the car enters the turn lane and then suddenly tries to swerve right before making the left turn, but sometimes it makes the left turn perfectly. I have read similar comments from others. (I have been using EAP/FSD for most of my street driving even before receiving the Beta and never recall such inconsistencies.)

 

[jebinc]

I have a hunch your proposed test comparison by FSD Beta release won’t work very well because I am getting different results for the same places on 10.2. For example there is a left turn lane on the street leading to my house. Sometimes the car enters the turn lane and then suddenly tries to swerve right before making the left turn, but sometimes it makes the left turn perfectly. I have read similar comments from others. (I have been using EAP/FSD for most of my street driving even before receiving the Beta and never recall such inconsistencies.)

@azred Well, for the chosen route, like it seems you are already doing, we have to drive it several times and report on differences from our average experience with each version released.

 

[EVNow]

Sometimes the car enters the turn lane and then suddenly tries to swerve right before making the left turn, but sometimes it makes the left turn

I wonder whether the planner is trying a wider turn with maneuver. Slightly different distance could cause that. The planner needs to do a better job of smoothly going a little to the right before turning left, if that’s the case.