Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[mhan00]

Did a trip yesterday to the La Mirada Theater to watch Clue and back, about 60 miles, and again just so good. Lots of little interventions, but if you treat it as a driver aid and don’t expect it to actually do everything, I think it’s incredible. Lots of “Wow, I can’t believe it handled that” moments. Of course, those were often followed by “Wow, I can’t believe it tried to do that” moments as well.

If you enjoy using NoAP like I did, where it handles most of the driving for you but you have to babysit it and be willing to anticipate situations and be proactive in addressing them (for example, if you know you need to be in a lane full of traffic, instead of waiting for NoAP to change lanes, just use the indicator and request a lane change yourself with plenty of time), then Beta is great. If you didn’t like using NoAP, then Beta probably isn’t going to be the best experience, imo, especially since Beta requires more vigilance and more anticipation due to its increased capabilities and more complex situations it encounters.

 

[powertoold]

Did a trip yesterday to the La Mirada Theater to watch Clue and back, about 60 miles, and again just so good. Lots of little interventions, but if you treat it as a driver aid and don’t expect it to actually do everything, I think it’s incredible. Lots of “Wow, I can’t believe it handled that” moments. Of course, those were often followed by “Wow, I can’t believe it tried to do that” moments as well.

If you enjoy using NoAP like I did, where it handles most of the driving for you but you have to babysit it and be willing to anticipate situations and be proactive in addressing them (for example, if you know you need to be in a lane full of traffic, instead of waiting for NoAP to change lanes, just use the indicator and request a lane change yourself with plenty of time), then Beta is great. If you didn’t like using NoAP, then Beta probably isn’t going to be the best experience, imo, especially since Beta requires more vigilance and more anticipation due to its increased capabilities and more complex situations it encounters.

It‘s interesting that you say 10.2 is good, because I remember that you were picky about risky maneuvers in the last year of fsd videos.

I think there is still a lot of work to do (lots of minor issues imo), but we’ve been saying that since beta was released. I hope at some point it can actually be as reliable as lane keeping AP.

I do think there will be a day where 3-4 of the main issues get fixed, and everything just clicks, making fsd beta a much more enjoyable experience.

 

[Phlier]

3) Acceleration is usually not bold enough, but sometimes too bold. Context ignorant.

Exactly.

Coming out of roundabouts, it's often at the speed limit while you're still pulling cornering G's. Yet accelerating away from a traffic light, I get passed by bicyclists. It's like they need to swap the "accelerate out of traffic circles" logic with the "accelerate from traffic lights" logic.

In neighborhoods, it'll take left turns way too fast, clipping the other lane far too much, then accelerate out of it like it's butt is on fire.

Yet if you're stopped at a stop light and the light turns green, you need to get out and push, even if you're going to go straight through the light (no turns).

Great video.

 

[Phlier]

It will be interesting to see the amount of change from 10.2 to 10.3, 10.4, etc. Pick a route, and drive that same route each and every time you get a new release (in the same conditions, at the same time, if possible) and comment on what your experience was (better, worse, the same). This way, we will be able to see what type of changes Tesla made between releases - if we all report on this.

Yup, I already have three routes picked out for the new release.

 

[mhan00]

It‘s interesting that you say 10.2 is good, because I remember that you were picky about risky maneuvers in the last year of fsd videos.

I think there is still a lot of work to do (lots of minor issues imo), but we’ve been saying that since beta was just released. I hope at some point it can actually be as reliable as lane keeping AP.

it definitely still does things I think are risky. For example, a couple of times on left turns I’m fairly certain it tried to turn into the oncoming lanes on the wrong side of the street like we’ve seen it do in some vids like Frenchie’s. The difference is that since I’m not recording for YouTube and I have no interest in “testing the limits” of the system or “seeing what the computer will do” since I prioritize my life, the lives of others, my property, the property of others, and not being a dick while driving (in that order) as soon as I feel the wheel trying to turn too far, I tighten my grip and adjust the steering. If I feel it hesitate on a turn for no reason, I hit the go pedal while letting it handle the steering, and if that goes wonky I take over that too. If it’s stopping short of a stop line i feather the accelerator until it’s where it should be. If it’s taking too long at a stop sign I just goose the accelerator. All that stuff is easy. I know what I would be doing if I was driving the car, and if the car isn’t doing it, I just do it myself.

It turns out, everything I hated seeing in the videos has been easily addressed by having a human driver who knows he is driving and is willing to intervene and take over immediately instead of letting the system struggle for the views, so I love using it. The caveat, of course, is that I am in SoCal, which is undoubtedly one of the “overfit” areas. Even with the screwups or little quirks where I have to intervene or disengage and re-engage, 95%+ (rough estimate) of the driving is being handled by the Beta. My views might change if I was in an area some other people are in where it sounds like the system struggles with basic maneuvers and the need to dis-engage and then re-engage is constant. Similar to NoAP: I always loved using it in SoCal and in my trips up to SF, out to Vegas, and to El Paso/Dallas and back and I’ve experience phantom braking (where the car SLAMS on the brakes) only once in my three years of driving the car, and that was in El Paso. I’ve experienced more minor slowdowns that required a quick tap on the go pedal, but those were never dangerous like the one time in El Paso. I’m sure a lot of that was due to me being in SoCal traveling along routes that were well worn by fellow Tesla drivers, while people in other areas had rougher experiences and thus thought NoAP was unusable.

 

[powertoold]

It turns out, everything I hated seeing in the videos has been easily addressed by having a human driver who knows he is driving and is willing to intervene and take over immediately instead of letting the system struggle for the views, so I love using it.

Yes, I find it much less stressful than I anticipated. Most of my stress comes from fsd beta wearing out my tires, brakes, and steering motor.

 

[mhan00]

Yes, I find it much less stressful than I anticipated. Most of my stress comes from fsd beta wearing out my tires, brakes, and steering motor.

lol, yeah. I swear the Beta used my brakes more in the first week than I had total since the update that included the Hold mode.

 

[Phlier]

This time of year, my little town becomes a very dangerous mix.

St. George has a fairly large college. We're also a very popular "snow bird" destination. For those that don't know, "snow birds" are elderly people that flee from the cold to spend winter in warmer climes. We have very nice winters here, so we get more than our fair share of snow birds, especially with our low cost of living compared to other popular snow bird destinations.

Now combine the aggressive young college kids that have zero time/patience to put up with elderly drivers. My small town becomes rife with collisions between young and old drivers from now until next spring.

Now throw FSD in the mix, with a ton of "fringe" driving scenarios, poorly marked and designed roads, college kids and elderly drivers.

Come drive around here for a few days this time of year, then report back on how relaxing FSD is.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

FSD is constantly scrubbing the tires with all of its unnecessary wheel turning.

This is a benefit for me since it will wear out my RE-71Rs more quickly.

again just so good. Lots of little interventions, but if you treat it as a driver aid and don’t expect it to actually do everything, I think it’s incredible.

I've concluded that the main additional value (if any) for FSD is on uncomplicated straight stretches of road with multiple traffic lights, and on highways where the speed limit was previously limited to 5mph over the posted limit.

In the traffic light case, it's nice to have the vehicle stop without interventions - however, the smoothness leaves much to be desired and that smoothness issue may offset the benefit nearly entirely.

Not being able to use radar and not being able to set cruise above 80mph are disadvantages, of course.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes, I find it much less stressful than I anticipated. Most of my stress comes from fsd beta wearing out my tires, brakes, and steering motor.

I've heard it suggested that this is deliberate to discourage people from using FSD Beta, especially with others in the car, except when specifically testing it (when the driver is more tolerant of such things).

However...this idea is not supported by the years of similar imperfection in AP smoothness (where there is presumably no such incentive to discourage use).

 

[FSDtester#1]

Just curious how you Plaid yokers are going, efficiency wise. Here’s mine.

View attachment 722640

348 wh

 

[EVNow]

Respectfully disagree. Strongly.

You think it will take longer than 2 years or shorter ?

Ofcourse, its all just guesswork on our part (and even Musk's !).

 

[qdeathstar]

Duct tape and 2x4's will solve that problem?

 

[EVNow]

I've concluded that the main additional value (if any) for FSD is on uncomplicated straight stretches of road with multiple traffic lights, and on highways where the speed limit was previously limited to 5mph over the posted limit.

Funny thing is - if they fix a couple of bugs, I could use FSD beta for all my local / neighborhood driving. But that's a big IF at the moment.
- FCW / sudden slow downs on winding hilly roads. I think FCW / sudden slowdowns are same at this point, for this road.
- Smoother round-about
- Handle side only marked roads like they handle unmarked roads (but be on the left side when the road is wide)

Ofcourse the biggest usefulness for me is driving at night in the rain (that's is like 50% of my driving 7 months of the year).

 

[rxlawdude]

You think it will take longer than 2 years or shorter ?

Ofcourse, its all just guesswork on our part (and even Musk's !).

Sooner. Still beta but GA.

 

[EVNow]

Sooner. Still beta but GA.

Hope you are right - but I'm prepared for it to be 2 years.

Remember how long that "summon" took to get to GA ?!

ps : Wonder if Tesla uses the expanded beta to figure out all the problem cases and does an early GA asking the driver to confirm problematic actions like left turn, round-abouts etc. But first they have to solve the FCWs on twisting, hilly roads.

 

[Dan D.]

Yes, especially the brakes and the tires. FSD is constantly scrubbing the tires with all of its unnecessary wheel turning.

You see this on other brands of >=Level 2 as well. How hard is it to program it to only turn the wheel when the car is inching forward?

 

[powertoold]

Funny thing is - if they fix a couple of bugs

This is my thought as well. At this point, my satisfaction with 10.2 could be improved dramatically once a few things are fixed or improved. It gives me hope for 10.3 and so on.

 

[spokey]

Just curious how you Plaid yokers are going, efficiency wise. Here’s mine.

View attachment 722640

I'm no yoker, but that reminds of an observation. My lifetime is around 263. I've noticed that my beta runs tend to be around 280.

 

[TIppy]

Fsd Beta and Autosteer use a lot more brakes than I do. So more wh/mile.