theoretically and I guess even actually, but practically I think FSD is seeking confirming evidence from an additional video input rather than basing a high risk decision on the outer bounds of a single camera. Just a guess.
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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
old pilot
Member
I misstated about the forward facing camera being able to see more than 90 degrees. The pillar cameras would have the vision on the left and right side and part of the forward vision as well.
old pilot
Member
I've been using FSD 10.69.3.1 more often and am more confident in its performance. Still not satisfied with it's lane selections sometimes but that is easy enough to correct with the turn signal. Sometimes it will slow or stop, with traffic close behind, for no apparent reason but I can use the accelerator to correct this (this is I think the most difficult problem to solve because I cannot control other cars following distance). And the turn signal coming on very late when turning and sometimes when not turning at all. When I'm driving I always initiate the turn signal before I start slowing for the turn, I know that state laws differ on when the signal should or must be initiated but there needs to be some better standard implemented, than 50 feet or whatever it is now before the turn (this would help with following distances of the car behind). I think that as before there is still inconsistency between drives with similar traffic conditions over the same routes so it is difficult to relax to much which may be a good thing. It is not Full Self Driving as of yet. Maybe someday.
I'm also on 10.69.3.1 and agree with your observations. In addition, I would like to see:
- speed-adjusted turn signal activation (turning off a fast moving road onto a small road requires greater anticipation)
- improved courtesy to pedestrians walking on streets with no sidewalk. FSD waits to last minute to give space even with no oncoming traffic
- FSD is maintaining too high of a speed coming into blind curves
- some coherent approach to school zones. I find that FSD will be equally likely to a) speed through school zone slowdown area without observing posted school speed, or b) slow to school zone posted speed. Both scenarios are irrespective of time of day or day of week.
old pilot
Member
I forgot to mention school zones. You are correct this should be a priority. If FSD is going to a wider group who are unaware of it shortcomings this will be very dangerous.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
There was a discussion on TMC a while ago about school zones (and school busses.) From what I recall there appears to be no consistent marking of school zones with significant variation not just from state to state but even within states. Even amongst the people commenting on the thread there was a lot of confusion over what they meant and when they applied
I think the current school zone situation in FSDb is shameful. It does not even try to get them right around here, and it gives no warning. I actually think it should be able to figure out it is in a school zone situation it cannot handle properly, and give driver alert: something like "School zone detected, you must take full control" rapidly escalating to a full red hands of death disconnect.
No, I'm not joking.
Meanwhile, they should work diligently of getting it right, which given the crazy complex variation of US school zones, is a daunting task.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Already posted this a few months back, but it's worth repeating that Tesla already does conditional speed limits (like school zones) in Europe. My assumption is that this is provided by their European map data. Here's one example based on time of day:
And here's even an example based on time of year from Finland (which apparently has different Winter speed limits):
Probably easier for Tesla to add the conditional speed limits to their current NA map data than to read and intuit conditional speed limits from signs.
old pilot
Member
I hadn't really considered how different school zoning markings are. Most where I am are marked with flashing yellow lights and signs but others only have a sign with a time on them and in rural areas nothing but a crossing guard with road markings. I suspect if the country wants to go to all or majority self driving cars there will need to be a federal law mandating signage for school zones. If the Tesla can always recognize a stop sign by its shape and color maybe a special school sign.
When will any AV/ADAS system learn to recognize this?
remember this spreadsheet? Ah the memories. It kicked off this thread.
docs.google.com
FSD Beta - Participants and Rollout Status
Safety Score This spreadsheet is no longer actively managed, and most of the version data has gone stale. NOTE: If you have more than one Tesla vehicle, create a row for each one. Add new entries to the bottom. We will sort you into place. TMC Screenname (optional),Location,Safety Score - Mile...
That is one shameful school zone sign. By the time I could decipher the sign and check the time, I would be out of the zone.
I'd just say screw it and drive 25 no matter what time of day
hybridbear
Active Member
Yep, I completely agree with your observations. I would also add that I'd like to see it look farther down the road & stop accelerating toward red lights, stopped traffic, and stop signs. I've started having my foot resting gently on the brake when approaching these scenarios & often times FSD Beta waits so long to start braking that it cannot stop with regen only & must engage the friction brakes, usually around 25 MPH to get down under 17 MPH. There is no reason for this other than poor programming. On winter roads that may be slippery this is especially dangerous as FSD Beta does not allow sufficient time when slowing for any loss of traction due to winter roads increasing the stopping distance. As a human I begin gently braking from farther back when roads may be slippery. And even in the summer on dry roads I am a much smoother driver than FSD Beta which likes to race from red light to red light like a race car driver.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Something that FSD and the discussions here have made me realize is that there's a surprising amount of variability around the country with regard to signage, road design, driving styles, etc. Most people tend to drive in their little corner of the country, occasionally venturing to other areas so we aren't necessarily well aware of the differences. On top of that, humans have a much greater ability to figure things out. As long as a new road design or sign 'makes sense' people will be fine with it. By contrast, FSD needs to be pre-programmed with instructions for close to everything so the instruction set ends up being much more complex than one would initially think.
JupiterMan
Active Member
how do human road users deal with this? that is crazy!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
That’s called “the city police need an easy way to increase their budget by writing more tickets.”
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
We were so young back then. Good looking, smart, had high hopes for beta to work in 2 to 3 months...How naive we were!remember this spreadsheet? Ah the memories. It kicked off this thread.
FSD Beta - Participants and Rollout Status
Safety Score This spreadsheet is no longer actively managed, and most of the version data has gone stale. NOTE: If you have more than one Tesla vehicle, create a row for each one. Add new entries to the bottom. We will sort you into place. TMC Screenname (optional),Location,Safety Score - Mile...
Certainly the FSD low hanging fruit would be to observe a lower speed associated with a yellow "SCHOOL" placard regardless of time of day. The driver can be alerted to the adjustment and press the go pedal to override...just a thought.
SucreTease
Teslarian
Just went for my first drive with 10.69.3.1. I thought I remember hearing claims that this new FSD beta used a single stack for AP & FSD, but that clearly is not the case. I was impressed with how it behaves when being passed on a two-lane road; the car moves to the right to assist the passing vehicle.
I am not pleased at all with how it still behaves in several scenarios:
I am not pleased at all with how it still behaves in several scenarios:
- Constant phantom slowing for no apparent reason. Even though by just a couple of mph, it makes for an uncomfortable drive when it happens repeatedly a couple of times per minute. It is enough to cause me to lean slightly away from the seat.
- Vehicles crossing my lane ahead of me that will clear the lane before I get there; FSD still slams on the friction brakes (i.e. my seatbelt locks and I am thrown against it). Release notes have made multiple claims to have improved this.
- FSD keeps moving me out of the right lane into the left lane and won’t let me stay in the right lane, giving the message “Changing out of rightmost lane”. It does this on US-31, a four-lane highway (but still using the FSD stack, as is apparent from the visualization, as well as the fact that I have automatic lane changes disabled in FSD). If I try to cancel the lane change, it just tries again 30 seconds later, repeatedly, until I give up and let it. And, yes, I have set AP to stay out of the passing lane, but that affects only AP, not FSD.
- Excessive and harsh early braking (using the friction brakes) when approaching stops, then slowly creeping up to the stop. Not the nice smooth braking anyone use regen would do. A computer should be able to execute this at least as good as any human. It is a simple problem. I have taken to canceling FSD and slowing using regen, then reenabling after I stop.
- FSD takes forever to lower the speed of the vehicle when the speed limit reduces. I would say at least a quarter mile—definitely far enough to get a ticket in the typical speed trap. I have taken to canceling FSD when it goes down a reenabling when I reach the new speed.
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