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I own a Tesla Model S since 2016. When I purchased the car, everything was hunky dory for S and X owners in Michigan since Tesla promised to send a flatbed to pick up your car and give you a loaner or send a ranger to fix your car issues.

Curious, how did Tesla convey this “promise” to you? Promise is quite the bar.

I get it, it’s a bummer. I used to live ~150 miles from the service center and they did the whole white glove drop off and pick up the car thing back in 2017.

Then it became rangers, which in many ways was better - but the rangers can’t fix everything, so I’m on the hook to drive to the SC for that stuff.

Times they are a changin’. But yeah, if it’s really impossible for you to take a day off from work, then owning a car where the nearest service center is the next state over is probably incompatible with your lifestyle.
 
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This is awkward, but at some point Tesla may have to abandon future sales in MI until the corruption stops. This is all the consequence of corruption: these have been years of moves by the state legislature to make life as difficult as possible to own a Tesla in Michigan. Not even allowing Ranger service--really?

The costs of flat bedding and dropping off loaners must be in the hundreds to thousands for every service visit; that's just unsustainable.

Sadly, this may help get the OP to start writing letters and calling for change in his corrupt state? The cost of supporting Tesla sales in MI is just too high for the rest of the planet to support.

Sorry, but I'd bet it'll be awhile before there's a court ruling in Tesla's favor on this.
 
All of what I am saying is: verbal reassurances are just that.

They are not memorialized in writing.

Thus, to avoid being a "fanboy", get what Tesla verbal reassurances in writing, please.
Verbal agreements are generally still considered binding contracts. However there are certain things that must be done in writing; one of them is any contract that can't be completed in one year. (See Michigan Legislature - Section 566.132) It seems like they performed for the first year which is all that they could legally verbally contract for. It is unfortunate that the OP didn't have this knowledge at the time he made his purchase, but it is not Tesla's fault.
 
...Verbal agreements are generally still considered binding contracts...

No question about that.

But how can an average consumer prove that the verbal agreement really existed without video, audio, written materials?

The jury then has to figure out whose memory is more reliable and which version of memory is correct!
 
No question about that.

But how can an average consumer prove that the verbal agreement really existed without video, audio, written materials?

The jury then has to figure out whose memory is more reliable and which version of memory is correct!
As I pointed out, it doesn't matter. Tesla did what they said they would do for a year (or maybe even more) so there was nothing in dispute then. But they did not contract for more than a year because it is not possible to do so in Michigan with a verbal contract. Thus they upheld their end of the bargain so there is nothing to sue over.
 
Verbal agreements are generally still considered binding contracts. However there are certain things that must be done in writing; one of them is any contract that can't be completed in one year. (See Michigan Legislature - Section 566.132) It seems like they performed for the first year which is all that they could legally verbally contract for. It is unfortunate that the OP didn't have this knowledge at the time he made his purchase, but it is not Tesla's fault.
Wouldn't matter. He didn't buy the car in Michigan :(
 
....But yeah, if it’s really impossible for you to take a day off from work, then owning a car where the nearest service center is the next state over is probably incompatible with your lifestyle.

I can guarantee you that taking a day off for work for car service is incompatible with the majority of the population's lifestyle.
 
I can guarantee you that taking a day off for work for car service is incompatible with the majority of the population's lifestyle.

That’s a bummer for the majority I suppose. Ah well.

Doesn’t really change my statement though. Sounds like owning a Tesla in an EV-hostile state just isn’t realistic for you given the lack of service availability.

Back to the rest of my post though. How did Tesla “promise” you this service? Was it evident they were offering it in perpetuity? Was the “promise” really just a sales description of current practice? That’s what I got.
 
I do feel bad for the OP, to live in a state that is that bad, and hates EV's, they will have to change in time, EV's are the future, and Tesla for now is far the best. I guess I just got lucky, I have never had a probable with service. I knew going in that this is a new way of buying a car, a different kind of a car, and it was a new company, there will be problems. I'm never rude with Tesla, or with the service center. I work it out, I never make anything worst than it is. I bring the service center donuts, sometimes little gifts, t-shirts, and always send a thank you card, I fine that goes a long way. I knew nothing about Tesla, I just walked in to the show room, loved the car, gave them $2500.00, told them to fine me a car, they did, but had to give them $1500.00 more to have it shipped to Kansas City, from Memphis, then they told me the money was not refundable, I just bought a car. That was a little bit of a shock. Never did a test drive. OP try to work it out with Tesla, try to work it out with your employer. Make it work, you got a great car. Good Luck.
 
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No question about that.

But how can an average consumer prove that the verbal agreement really existed without video, audio, written materials?

The jury then has to figure out whose memory is more reliable and which version of memory is correct!

Past performance would certainly be some good evidence of a contract. So, if he was able to show (as a hypothetical example) on 3 prior occasions, Tesla came with a flat bed for similar type service, they certainly weren't offering that service out of the "goodness of their heart" and while not 100% dispositive of a contract, it shows some evidence that there may have been one in place.
 
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In theory, Native American Reservations are sovereign nations and have their own autonomy but I suspect, in reality, they are under the rules of Auto Dealerships,

If they are not under the rules of Auto Dealerships, Tesla should have opened up sales car lots there because Tesla has already placed Superchargers and Destination chargers at some Native American Reservations.

I've researched the topic of Tribal sovereignty quite a bit and while their sovereignty is not 100%, they are most certainly not bound by Michigan auto dealership laws. In the rare cases where the tribes do not have complete sovereignty over commerce, they are subject solely to federal law and are specifically not bound by any state commerce laws:

Beyond the Indian Commerce Clause

Some additional sources of information on Tribal sovereignty:

https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/4153/umi-ku-2568_1.pdf;sequence=1

Professor Breaks Down Sovereignty and Explains its Significance - IndianCountryToday.com
 
I don’t think they hate EVs, it’s just they have a couple of groups that fight the direct sales.

I was in Michigan for a year a little over 35 years ago, back when the automakers were suffering from the inability to compete with the more efficient and better built foreign cars. Back then their cry was “buy American”. Now if I point out that the big 3 assembles cars in Canada and Mexico, that foreign manufacturers have plants in the US, and Tesla is the car truly made in America, they go quiet.

They miss the old days, when the big 3 were successful, and Michigan was successful because the manufacturing was here. They miss the power of the UAW, when unskilled people could get jobs paying $30 per hour, and strikes were used often, used to bring the manufacturers in line. They drove up the price of the U.S. made cars, and even when the U.S. manufacturers finally saw the light and tried to compete, the UAW would strike, further crippling the industry.

I was at a hospital in Michigan back then. Union mentality ran deep. The nurses joined the Teamsters union and within a couple of months of unionizing, they went on strike. The nurses had been promised benefits during the strike, but since they’d been in the union such a short time, there weren’t funds for benefits. The nurses were on picket lines, out of work, unpaid, and angry at any nurses that did cross the lines. I’d never been in a state with unions like this. The nurses were on the job one day then striking the next. I’d always thought of nurses as medical professionals, dedicated to patient care above all else. They abandoned the patients. Nursing supervisors weren’t in the union. They filled in caring for patients, and other health professionals and trainees were shoehorned into the nursing vacuum. The hospitals discharged all they could. The strike went on and on. It was a rude surprise to the striking nurses that the Teamsters expected the nurses to stay out of work, not take other jobs, and to man the picket lines, and that there wasn’t money to support them while they did this. Some nurses had no choice and returned to work. The hospitals survived.

Still the unions here were powerful, and the union mentality had had decades to pervade the very fabric of society. People felt entitled to those high paying jobs. Unions protected their workers, protected unreasonably high wages for unskilled labor, and put their manufacturers in a position of being unable to compete. There was drug use and alcohol use. Those people were protected by their union, they weren’t fired, but the quality of the work suffered and so did the quality of the product. Manufacturers lost market share, there were layoffs, plants closed, and many autoworkers found themselves out of work. Economic forces prevailed despite the desperate wishes of the Michigan unskilled work force. Those high paying jobs went away, finally out of the control of the unions. It was too late to save the industry that had ignored the increase in gas prices years before, and had not changed with the market. Car companies bankrupted and were saved with bailouts. The unions lost power. This left the people of Michigan angry. They didn’t blame themselves for driving US made car prices beyond the market, they didn’t blame their unions, they didn’t blame the gasoline industry. They blamed the consumers that bought the more efficient well built cars. Expensive non US cars were vandalized. It’s that mentality that caused the people here to strike back the only way they knew, to scratch “buy american” into the hoods of Porsches

It’s a couple of generations later now. The Michigan workers have been economically battered, their unions reduced to shadows of their former power. There’s still anger. Now it is subdued. The people here still buy cars from the big 3 despite their being produced in Canada and Mexico. They are loyal to their brands. The absolute dedication to US production has faded. Now they’re just defensive of the old US brands, so they don’t see the US made Teslas as a product of the US, they see it as another brand threatening their beloved big 3.

Tesla doesn’t have a big UAW presence. People here resent that. Tesla makes maximal use of robots, functional auto workers that don’t call in sick on Fridays, don’t drink, don’t use drugs, don’t leave out bolts, and don’t strike at the drop of a hat. Tesla’s suppliers are now reliable. Tesla doesn’t worry about a strike by a company that makes brakes shutting down the Tesla lines.

In the old days, a strike from a supplier of a single engine component would bring car manufacture to a halt. If the auto makers wanted to use components from plants that weren’t unionized, the UAW would block it. And with power came corruption.

Tesla does face resentment here. There are a few groups such as the car dealership groups that fund and fight Tesla’s efforts to sell directly here. That’s not going to change soon, not if the typical Michigan resident has anything to say about it. They’ll continue to buy from their dealers, but now those dealers include Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus. Those dealers aren’t owned by the manufacturers, they are privately and independently owned. Dealership overhead makes the cars more expensive. I think the figure is 17% more expensive.

There are quite a few Teslas in Michigan. There are more all the time. Economic forces will eventually prevail as they always do, but it won’t be a short term change, it’ll take generations. Just like bigotry, you don’t change minds, you have to wait for the old to die off and be replaced by the younger and more progressive, those who’ve grown up without the memories, and who don’t have the deep loyalties. Until those collective memories fade, things won’t change here.
 
I don’t think they hate EVs, it’s just they have a couple of groups that fight the direct sales.


Tesla does face resentment here. There are a few groups such as the car dealership groups that fund and fight Tesla’s efforts to sell directly here. That’s not going to change soon, not if the typical Michigan resident has anything to say about it. They’ll continue to buy from their dealers, but now those dealers include Hondas, Toyotas, and Subarus. Those dealers aren’t owned by the manufacturers, they are privately and independently owned. Dealership overhead makes the cars more expensive. I think the figure is 17% more expensive.

There are quite a few Teslas in Michigan. There are more all the time. Economic forces will eventually prevail as they always do, but it won’t be a short term change, it’ll take generations. Just like bigotry, you don’t change minds, you have to wait for the old to die off and be replaced by the younger and more progressive, those who’ve grown up without the memories, and who don’t have the deep loyalties. Until those collective memories fade, things won’t change here.

Very very well written, and spot on for this state. I find it funny that most of the dealerships (FOX,Suburban, Lafontaine) all own 4 or 5 brands. Which is now very common everywhere. They realized many years ago about what your wrote above. Economic forces prevail, and loyalties go away when the old guard is replaced. After all if Dad isn't around anymore to chide me about my Toyota I will buy quality products at an affordable price. The dealerships didn't want to become less relevant as people smartened up.

Those dealerships are afraid. If one is afraid and has deep pockets one try to disrupt the other business in the name of something good for the consumer. Which is what the Michigan ADA, and NADA have done here and abroad. Fight progress with some thoughts that we are here to help the consumer.
 
Hi

I own a Tesla Model S since 2016. When I purchased the car, everything was hunky dory for S and X owners in Michigan since Tesla promised to send a flatbed to pick up your car and give you a loaner or send a ranger to fix your car issues. This arrangement lasted for a while but has lately gotten rocky to the point that now Tesla is downright abandoning their Michigan customers.

Last couple of times I have tried scheduling a service with Tesla they gave me a hard time about picking up my car then said they'd charge $100 for the picking up and dropping off a loaner. I pushed back and they showed some flexibility and continued the arrangement of picking up my car and dropping off a loaner one time.

But in the latest instance wherein I setup a service appointment (to fix the dreaded yellow screen and driving vibration issue under warranty), Tesla tells me that I will need to drive my car to either Toledo or Cleveland to get it taken care of. The problem is that I live approx. 90 miles one-way from Toledo and much farther still from Cleveland. I called up and asked why the heck were they being so difficult about this and they said that apparently they are doing this to even customers all the way in Traverse City. Now I don't know how much truth is associated with that last statement but if a Tesla customer in TC is expected to drive 300 miles to Toledo service then 1) either they think Tesla owners in Michigan are downright dumb or 2) such Tesla customers are so loyal to Tesla that they don't think anything of wasting an entire couple of days just driving their car to and from the Tesla service centers. In either case the situation is awful.

If this is the way Tesla chooses to treat its Michigan customers then I can safely say this is going to lead to an increasing number of customers moving away from purchasing a Tesla. I love my Tesla and love the fact that I am not driving an ICE but I have to say that Tesla with its myriad of quality issues that my car has experienced and now dwindling customer service is making me strongly consider trading in my car for a Nissan Leaf or something. At least I won't have to drive my Leaf 100 miles to get it serviced. Ever since the Model 3 launch I feel Tesla has gone to a terrible place in terms of their wait times and lack of customer service.

I am writing all this to inquire if other Michigan owners have lately had the same troublesome experience with getting Tesla service scheduled and car picked up? If yes and if you live upward of 70 miles away from Tesla service then how are you going about dealing with this situation? I am curious to hear some perspectives on this as from my standpoint this is an incredibly frustrating and brainless move Tesla is making toward Michigan customers. This is leaving me feeling quite distraught and considering options of getting rid of my Tesla. As hard as it would be to give up on Tesla I feel that the quality issues are too many in my car (and other Teslas from what I have read) and to waste half a day going to and from a service center every time is just absolutely assinine but it seems like Tesla has put its foot down and is not thinking this through for Michigan customers.

Thank you!

I live in Michigan 3 hours away from the nearest service center. I have had mobile service to my house twice. Have yet to need to go to a service center. I will do it once before my warranty expires. Car has been great for almost 3 years and 39k miles. I do have slight yellowing but not enough to freak out over.

Can really only blame Michigan politicians for this issue. I can’t expect Tesla to maintain doing the flat bed situation for every little issue.
 
I do agree with the OP that if stated when buying the car, rules shouldn't change for your car years later. However, I know that Michigan is not a friendly Tesla state and that I may have to drive a few hours to get the car serviced. I think the reason some commenters are so 'passionate' is the same reason I give Tesla some slack, because we want to see the company around in the next 3, 5, 20 years. I am willing to go a bit out of my way knowing that some costs had to be cut so that the company can be sustainable. What other manufacturers have played around with for decades, Tesla has only had the luxury to do for around 10 years. Especially in such a fast moving economy, Tesla is still learning and trying to be disruptive while doing so.

If this is your only vehicle, take a day off work and make a trip out of it. I was actually planning on heading to Toledo a few months ago (before they called and said they would pick it up) and was looking up restaurants, things to see and do. Turn this situation into a way to see a city you may haven't been to before.
 
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To add to my comment above, as long as there’s new customers for Tesla, they can care less about the loyal former clients.

My guess is in about 2 years or so, it’d be too late for Tesla to try to right their wrongs.

We were going to be a 3 Tesla cars family but not any more.
I’d rather go back to MB or Porsche than buying another Tesla.

That's exactly why not nearly enough is being done by Tesla despite the obvious issues (QC, communication, service and parts availability,...). The new buyers are not aware of this forum. If they would have read this forum, a lot of them would not have committed to a Tesla vehicle.
 
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That's exactly why nothing is being done by Tesla despite the obvious issues (QC, communication, service and parts availability,...). The new buyers are not aware of this forum. If they would have read this forum, a lot of them would not have committed to a Tesla vehicle.

Tesla is doing nothing? Good grief.

Tesla aids Michigan customers with service center at Ohio border

Tesla is trying to fight Michigan. (Slow process)

Why Tesla's court battle to sell cars in Michigan could set national template

As far as forums go, can find nightmare stories for other vehicles too.

I do agree that service has gone down. Removing the chat option seems to be a bad move. I had good luck with that. But these absolute statements some people write, are far from accurate.
 
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