Wiki Model S Delivery Update

[Danlbrau]

Sure- my point is the other side of the coin. If your brand is “performance” and the plaid exists, how do you justify your price point?

For one, it takes three minutes to fill up and go on your way. 90%+ of car buyers are still leery of EVs and have a whole host of (mostly) irrational fears. Those ICE manufacturers will play on those fears for as long as they can.

 

[AMGF]

I don't know if the Plaid would cause this, because P90D the P100D were and are completely insanely fast even today, not to mention in 2016. No one had ever seen a sedan move that fast, especially with the instant response that an EV delivers.
The Roadster on the other hand, that one they need to be extremely careful with. I'm hoping and praying that the SpaceX package is optional. If not, then I really hope that Tesla can software lock the *sugar* out of it, so that it's only use strictly on a track, and not public roads.

P100D is quick. But no one gives a second glance at a 124mph trap speed. The Plaid gets to 120mph in the 1/8 and traps over 150mph in the 1/4. The Plaid accelerates as hard as F1 car in the 1/4. It is ridiculous and part of the reason why I want one.

Hopefully governments won’t start to impose regulations on stock car performances. But if it does, better get those Plaid right now.

 

[Danlbrau]

Exactly correct, the EPA's changing fuel economy rules resulted in choked up engines, and so they made less power.

Yes, fuel economy too. But the emissions regs were particularly onerous in the days before computer-controlled engine functions. I recall the Corvette bottomed out at 165 HP in the early 80s. I can only imagine was lesser vehicles were producing.

 

[Sbaimo]

My 2016 still has it, but why use it?

I’m new to ev and Tesla. I felt it was a nice transition until you get used to the accelerator. At the beginning of my test drive I used it and it felt less jerky.

When I first bought my AMG-gts it had ceramic brakes. It took a
Little while to get used to and I believe that a couple passengers would not have been thrown through the windshield.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Yes, fuel economy too. But the emissions regs were particularly onerous in the days before computer-controlled engine functions. I recall the Corvette bottomed out at 165 HP in the early 80s. I can only imagine was lesser vehicles were producing.

I know lol! I remember watching a video where someone dynoed a Chevy Chevette at 23 hp!

 

[rhuber]

I know lol! I remember watching a video where someone dynoed a Chevy Chevette at 23 hp!

And don’t forget the travesty that was called the “Mustang 2”.

The “2” referred to horsepower iirc.

 

[joga]

I just wanted to share a quick note since I picked up my car yesterday. First, I'm not going to share pictures because, like many others have said, no picture has really done the car justice. I've tried to take a bunch but none of them looks like the car feels.

Sitting in the driver's seat with the view out the windshield, the ventless dash, and the steering yoke while the car is so planted and suspension firm and steering responsive - I've just never felt anything like it. The yoke is natural, I don't have to think about it. You have this direct connection to the asphalt that for even normal driving on roads I've driven on for 10 years feels like a new experience.

There are a couple of issues with it - misaligned dashboard-to-door trim lines on the passenger side, and the passenger rear latch release button isn't working. These details would've bothered me on my BMWs but this car is so raw and purpose-built, I don't care about the flaws. There's just an overwhelming tidal wave of astonishing qualities in the car that make the fit-and-finish details seem less significant. I know that's probably an unpopular statement but it's honest.

The acceleration in plaid mode is completely absurd - it never stops pulling. The car feels possessed and I'll admit...it scares the hell out of me!

 

[EndlessPlaid]

And don’t forget the travesty that was called the “Mustang 2”.

The “2” referred to horsepower iirc.

Oh yeah man! PINTO POWER!

 

[Danlbrau]

I know lol! I remember watching a video where someone dynoed a Chevy Chevette at 23 hp!

I remember my first vehicle was a 1976 Chevy Luv (rebadged Isuzu P’up). It could get up to 55 on the freeway given enough time, but if for some reason you wanted to pass someone or had the slightest incline you had to downshift. Absolutely gutless. It’s quarter mile time was probably faster than 0-60.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

I remember my first vehicle was a 1976 Chevy Luv (rebadged Isuzu P’up). It could get up to 55 on the freeway given enough time, but if for some reason you wanted to pass someone or had the slightest incline you had to downshift. Absolutely gutless. It’s quarter mile time was probably faster than 0-60.

It would be like a 25 second 1/4 mile at 58 mph! RECORD BREAKER!

 

[Sbaimo]

I don’t believe the Federal government was involved in regulating muscle cars in the 70s, at least not in any way that was specific to their horsepower. What killed muscle cars in the 70s was emissions regulations, which choked cars of every type. The reduction of horsepower was incidental. Insurance companies also piled on with the death blow for cars that had “performance” abilities that made owning one a pricier proposition than it had been when John Z dropped his first big block V8 into the Pontiac Tempest and birthed the GTO.

Also during the period when the muscle cars took a big hit there was an oil embargo and people were lined up at
Gas stations all over the country.
I had a custom Camaro built by Baldwin Motion Chevrolet in Long Island. They would put a 454 cubic inch 500 hp engine in a
Car much lighter than the corvette which the engine was made for. They guaranteed 11.5 120 mph+ quarter mile which was probably as fast as you could get back then. I would leave dodge hemis eating my dust. But when the fuel crisis happened they wished they were selling Toyota’s and Datsun( now Nissan).

 

[AnselmDante]

I don’t believe the Federal government was involved in regulating muscle cars in the 70s, at least not in any way that was specific to their horsepower. What killed muscle cars in the 70s was emissions regulations, which choked cars of every type. The reduction of horsepower was incidental. Insurance companies also piled on with the death blow for cars that had “performance” abilities that made owning one a pricier proposition than it had been when John Z dropped his first big block V8 into the Pontiac Tempest and birthed the GTO.

Emissions and insurance did it, but obviously if you are going to actively try to curb something, you do it without directly addressing what your concern is. I'm not saying that is necessarily true with the emissions and insurance, but you could take almost any law and spin it to sound like you are doing it for reasons other than your true intentions. Just take a look at obvious ones like voter suppression, "right to work" laws, etc. I could list at least a dozen, but none of them are safe from offending someone.

My point is simply if ICE manufacturers cannot beat EV's, they will support and promote regulating the ability of EV manufacturers to best them with acceleration. Something as noble sounding as placing a cap on acceleration. A cap that ICE just happens to be able to reach easily. Lobbying power has historically been the gate keepers that hinder anything from upsetting the balance of power. If they cannot compete with EV, they will try to hinder the industry.

There are already mechanisms in place to hinder Tesla. Things like rent seeking practices of requiring a dealership to sell a car in a state. And the tax credit bill has deductions for buying from a union built manufacturer. You know, basically every car manufacturer in the US except Tesla. Lobbyists for the auto industry had a hand in that one. If they think regulating the power of an EV will give them an advantage, it will definitely be considered.

 

[tallshorty]

Any one from Canada have a delivery date earlier than August for the LR?

 

[Sbaimo]

Emissions and insurance did it, but obviously if you are going to actively try to curb something, you do it without directly addressing what your concern is. I'm not saying that is necessarily true with the emissions and insurance, but you could take almost any law and spin it to sound like you are doing it for reasons other than your true intentions. Just take a look at obvious ones like voter suppression, "right to work" laws, etc. I could list at least a dozen, but none of them are safe from offending someone.

My point is simply if ICE manufacturers cannot beat EV's, they will support and promote regulating the ability of EV manufacturers to best them with acceleration. Something as noble sounding as placing a cap on acceleration. A cap that ICE just happens to be able to reach easily. Lobbying power has historically been the gate keepers that hinder anything from upsetting the balance of power. If they cannot compete with EV, they will try to hinder the industry.

There are already mechanisms in place to hinder Tesla. Things like rent seeking practices of requiring a dealership to sell a car in a state. And the tax credit bill has deductions for buying from a union built manufacturer. You know, basically every car manufacturer in the US except Tesla. Lobbyists for the auto industry had a hand in that one. If they think regulating the power of an EV will give them an advantage, it will definitely be considered.

Thes old big manufacturers and dealership groups have a lot of power and lobbyists.
But they won’t stop progress

 

[AnselmDante]

Thes old big manufacturers and dealership groups have a lot of power and lobbyists.
But they won’t stop progress

No, not now. Tesla opened Pandora's box. But I wonder how much sooner we could have transitioned to electric if the big auto manufacturers tried to develop it earlier.

 

[EndlessPlaid]

Emissions and insurance did it, but obviously if you are going to actively try to curb something, you do it without directly addressing what your concern is. I'm not saying that is necessarily true with the emissions and insurance, but you could take almost any law and spin it to sound like you are doing it for reasons other than your true intentions. Just take a look at obvious ones like voter suppression, "right to work" laws, etc. I could list at least a dozen, but none of them are safe from offending someone.

My point is simply if ICE manufacturers cannot beat EV's, they will support and promote regulating the ability of EV manufacturers to best them with acceleration. Something as noble sounding as placing a cap on acceleration. A cap that ICE just happens to be able to reach easily. Lobbying power has historically been the gate keepers that hinder anything from upsetting the balance of power. If they cannot compete with EV, they will try to hinder the industry.

There are already mechanisms in place to hinder Tesla. Things like rent seeking practices of requiring a dealership to sell a car in a state. And the tax credit bill has deductions for buying from a union built manufacturer. You know, basically every car manufacturer in the US except Tesla. Lobbyists for the auto industry had a hand in that one. If they think regulating the power of an EV will give them an advantage, it will definitely be considered.

Had Tesla come out with this car in the beginning, that definitely would have happened. But now that the entire industry is moving rapidly towards EVs, and entire countries are banning gas vehicle sales after 'x' year, that is unlikely. Especially when the big legacy manufacturers are backing companies such as Rimac, they are definitely determined in reaching that level of performance also. Just yesterday, Volvo extensively detailed their entire plan to go electric; and today, Renault detailed their plans to rapidly increase their development of EVs.

 

[Danlbrau]

Emissions and insurance did it, but obviously if you are going to actively try to curb something, you do it without directly addressing what your concern is. I'm not saying that is necessarily true with the emissions and insurance, but you could take almost any law and spin it to sound like you are doing it for reasons other than your true intentions. Just take a look at obvious ones like voter suppression, "right to work" laws, etc. I could list at least a dozen, but none of them are safe from offending someone.

My point is simply if ICE manufacturers cannot beat EV's, they will support and promote regulating the ability of EV manufacturers to best them with acceleration. Something as noble sounding as placing a cap on acceleration. A cap that ICE just happens to be able to reach easily. Lobbying power has historically been the gate keepers that hinder anything from upsetting the balance of power. If they cannot compete with EV, they will try to hinder the industry.

There are already mechanisms in place to hinder Tesla. Things like rent seeking practices of requiring a dealership to sell a car in a state. And the tax credit bill has deductions for buying from a union built manufacturer. You know, basically every car manufacturer in the US except Tesla. Lobbyists for the auto industry had a hand in that one. If they think regulating the power of an EV will give them an advantage, it will definitely be considered.

I don’t doubt that they will try. My comment was directly related to the assertion that the government “regulated muscle cars in the 1970s when things got out of hand”. Really the mileage and emissions rules were directly addressing non-performance related issues, although obviously that segment was hit pretty hard.

Yep, that union carve out shows how political power is wielded. Of course Tesla probably wouldn’t exist in its current form had it not been the primary (sole?) beneficiary of selling zero emission credits the past ten years. Win some, lose some.

 

[AnselmDante]

Had Tesla come out with this car in the beginning, that definitely would have happened. But now that the entire industry is moving rapidly towards EVs, and entire countries are banning gas vehicle sales after 'x' year, that is unlikely. Especially when the big legacy manufacturers are backing companies such as Rimac, they are definitely determined in reaching that level of performance also. Just yesterday, Volvo extensively detailed their entire plan to go electric; and today, Renault detailed their plans to rapidly increase their development of EVs.

I hope so. But we have seatbelts, airbags, rear view cameras, and speed limits for a reason. Just wait until all new cars are connected to a network. Then they decide the police need the ability to shut down a vehicle. Then they standardize how law enforcement can connect to any vehicle. Then a city decides to link with any car in its borders to restrict max speeds on their roads.

911 calls from a cell phone give your exact location. LOL, just wait till a cell tower can adjust your performance based on location. Those 70's muscle cars will be worth their weight in gold in that kind of world.

 

[Danlbrau]

Had Tesla come out with this car in the beginning, that definitely would have happened. But now that the entire industry is moving rapidly towards EVs, and entire countries are banning gas vehicle sales after 'x' year, that is unlikely. Especially when the big legacy manufacturers are backing companies such as Rimac, they are definitely determined in reaching that level of performance also. Just yesterday, Volvo extensively detailed their entire plan to go electric; and today, Renault detailed their plans to rapidly increase their development of EVs.

Great points. Speaking of our elected overseers who deign to ban ICE cars by Year 20XX, has anyone wondered where all that electricity will come from? I use about the same for my house as I do for my car. While they force utilities to close fossil fuel plants almost daily and here in CA blackouts and brownouts are a fact of life, what happens when the grid has 100 million EVs plugged in?

 

[AnselmDante]

Great points. Speaking of our elected overseers who deign to ban ICE cars by Year 20XX, has anyone wondered where all that electricity will come from? I use about the same for my house as I do for my car. While they force utilities to close fossil fuel plants almost daily and here in CA blackouts and brownouts are a fact of life, what happens when the grid has 100 million EVs plugged in?

You'll have every EV owner package their car loan with a solar installation. hehehe.