Model Y versus Ford Mustang Mach-E
- Thread starter Agassi
- Start date
iamnid
Member
When we got our Model 3, late last December, the first few times around the holidays we encountered lines for Superchargers in SoCal. Since then, we've taken a few longer trips and never had to wait -- including one on MLK long weekend. During regular weekends etc. it is never a problem -- also, if it WAS a problem, there's always an Electrify America charger nearby, so there's that if you want to get a chademo adapter. I'm probably getting a Y next May but I am interested in the Mach E. What gives me pause is the lack of supercharger network and I am skeptical of the range numbers published by Ford. I'll probably get a Y and have 2 Teslas.
jelloslug
Active Member
I carry a chademo adapter on trips and the single time I tried to use it was at an EA location. It took three attempts and a rather long phone call to get the station to start and it maxed out at 33 kw (rather than the ~50 kw that the chademo is capable of) to top it off, the station shut off again after 17 minutes.
Bridor
Member
I tried long distance travel in a Jaguar i-Pace. It was awful. On the return trip, the only faster charger was not working and I had to get a hotel to charge at a level 2 charger. I have gone to New York and back to California in a Tesla (with 3 small children). I just returned from a trip to Canada - the Tesla Supercharger network is amazing and I had zero issues. I have owned Nissan Leafs and other electric vehicles - you always had to have an ICE as a backup. With the Tesla, you can get rid of ICE... I am hoping for the best for the Ford Mach E, but it will probably be another two years before the charging network is as robust.
I love owning a Tesla Model S - it is by far the best vehicle ever made. The only thing that will eclipse it will be the Cybertruck.
Brent
I love owning a Tesla Model S - it is by far the best vehicle ever made. The only thing that will eclipse it will be the Cybertruck.
Brent
Electrify America, but as an EV owner you soon realize the vast majority of those charging stations are Level 2 which are essentially useless IMHO.---NOT true---- as of May 29, 2020 EA stats: 429 USA locations with: 1476 CCS fast charge pump handles 429 CHAdeMo charge pump handles 97 level 2 charge pump handles 116 future USA locations are in the planning stages Plus 90 locations in Canada.
MXLRplus
Active Member
Just in case anyone is interested in facts:
There are at least 2,376 CCS locations in the US. Many have multiple plugs.
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations
There are at least 817 Tesla locations. All have multiple plugs.
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations
Many of the CCS locations are capped at 50 kW. Many of the Tesla locations are capped at 70 kW.
There are at least 2,376 CCS locations in the US. Many have multiple plugs.
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations
There are at least 817 Tesla locations. All have multiple plugs.
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Electric Vehicle Charging Station Locations
Many of the CCS locations are capped at 50 kW. Many of the Tesla locations are capped at 70 kW.
So, basically 3 CCS and 1 CHAdeMo at each location, on average, where Tesla has 8 on average.
Have there been any reports of non-Teslas crossing the US, at a reasonable rate of speed?
There was a great story of one of the first owners of a Porsche Taycan doing a loop from the Eastern US, up into Eastern Canada, across to the west coast of Canada, then down south through through California and back across to the east.
Actually a very interesting read, with lots of great pics:
Taking One Lap of the Country in my Taycan Turbo - 10k miles in 6 weeks Cross-Country Journal
Bridor
Member
I drove from California to New York and back again in seven days - four years ago on the Tesla Supercharger network. I did no planning at all. I have had so many issues with Electrify America chargers. They charge by the minute and if it is a 100kWh charger, it charges you more. The Jaguar i-Pace supposedly is able to use this speed, but the one time I plugged in, I was only getting 50kWh rates, but they charged me an arm and a leg for the charge. I have had minor issues with some Supercharger stations, but I still love long-distance travel in a Tesla.
Brent
Brent
testarossa
Member
Bridor
Member
The Autopilot helps tremendously. I also do not like to travel by plane and I like to have my car wherever I go. I love being able to take frequent breaks when supercharging. I explore around the area and when I finally arrive at my destination, I am refreshed and ready to go. It was also wonderful to travel through Banff in Canada - it was a very scenic drive. For me, life is not about the destination, it is about the journey. I like to travel the road less traveled.
Brent
I just looked this car up and I agree, it looks like a solid contender to the Model Y. I plan on my next car to be an EV and was initially set on the Model Y but now I plan on waiting for this car and other EVs to hit the market to see what I like better before I make my purchase.
The fit/finish issues with the Y, the fact that the nearest Tesla Store is over 4hrs away, etc, have kept me from making the jump to a Tesla. I will be glad to see legit alternatives over the next few years. The only clear advantage the Tesla seems to have is the SUpercharger network.
Edit: Looking more closely at teh XC40 recharge it seems it may be significantly smaller than the Y. That could be a deal breaker for me as the Y already is about as small as I would want to go. I do like the look of the XC40 and the fact that there is a Volvo dealer in my town, which is about 4 hrs closer than a Tesla Store.
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HeyEph
Member
How do you make a realistic comparison of a vehicle that is not even for sale in the retail market and no vehicles have been available for the media to drive? How do we know what final specifications, capacities are going to exist? Real world verse laboratory and marketing data don't necessary match.
HeyEph
Member
Maybe not. But, the Mach e specs are widely published, and it's due to launch soon. Can't imagine it'll change that much to sway the overall conclusion.
Would you care to tell us when it will launch for the retail market and which retail market?
Luudcrs
Member
Yeah, I think if they offer an XC60 that would be more comparable in size to the Y. An XC90 would compare to the X.
SammichLover
Banned
The majority of those CCS are single plug, the average as of the end of last year was still below 2 plugs per station. Reality check: CHAdeMO fast-charging stations still outnumber CCS ones
A depressing number are 24kW nominal (these are typically at dealerships, sort of a "compliance" corp requirement for them). You might as well be plugged into a Destination Charger, at that point.
The roughly 135, of the 817 so about 1 in 6, of the SC that are 72kW sites are all "Urban" chargers located such that they largely aren't directly relevant to long travellers since they all have nearby 150kW and up. Their relevance is mostly taking local-use pressure off the 120kW and up chargers in the area. And if they do happen to make sense for your trip you can expect to get 72kW, or within a couple kW, out of them. The 50kW nominal sites on the other hand you're generally very happy if you manage to 48kW out of them.
The biggest issue with CCS at this point goes back to that per location count. This lack of liquidity at a given location makes it far more likely you'll have a collision where you end up waiting for someone else. Even when (if) we get to the point where it is widely easy to see availability ahead of showing up (like you can with SC), if it is only one plug at a location if there is a collision showing up in the final few minutes your effective charge time just doubled, given or take, as you wait for the plug to become free.
This makes the already much lower current plug count worth even less due to lower efficiency. It also means they'll need to more that match Tesla's plug count to match the SC network. Having more "out of the way" spots does help offset this to a degree but the frustration CCS users are going to feel when there actually are meaningful numbers of them on the road isn't going to be pretty. :/
P.S. Chademo is in worse spot on per location plug count, both in current count and the fact that its trajectory isn't towards meaningful improvement. Nearly all its new plugs are these compliance ones that have to charge the actually backend and stall with a CCS plug.
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jelloslug
Active Member
That's the way I feel also. I too have had a Leaf and I also had an i3. While they both proved to me that EVs were up to the task of every day driving, an ICE car was still required for the other 5 to 10% of our trips. After I bought a Model S though, we found that it could easily to 100% of our trips. Now that we also have a Model 3, we would have virtually zero need for an ICE car at all.
