Model Y very poor range/efficiency

[sleepydoc]

LOL at defining driving conditions for more than half the country for half the year as "worst case situations."

They aren't "worst case situations," they're just normal driving in the winter for a lot of the US.

They’re normal driving conditions but worst case conditions for EVs. ICE engines also get dramatically worse milage in those conditions, too, yet no one is complaining that their ICE car isn’t getting the rated milage when they drive it uphill into the wind at 75MPH in a snowstorm. SMH

 

[woolymammoth17]

They’re normal driving conditions but worst case conditions for EVs. ICE engines also get dramatically worse milage in those conditions, too, yet no one is complaining that their ICE car isn’t getting the rated milage when they drive it uphill into the wind at 75MPH in a snowstorm. SMH

My ICE car loses ~15% range in the cold and at high speeds compared to my MX and MY which lose ~50%, and no one cares if an ICE car loses a little range because filling up is 5 minutes and there are gas stations on every corner.

The general public will not accept the compromises us early adopters do. You can't tell grandpa bob that he: shouldn't drive when it's cold, shouldn't drive the speed limit unless it under 65, shouldn't have the heat on in his car, shouldn't drive when it's windy, etc. It's just not reality.

 

[Rocky_H]

My ICE car loses ~15% range in the cold and at high speeds compared to my MX and MY which lose ~50%, and no one cares if an ICE car loses a little range because filling up is 5 minutes and there are gas stations on every corner.

Careful not to exaggerate too much on the other side.

That's a lot of loss at highway speed (with a twist)

I just went on a trip and noticed a big drop in efficiency at highway speed. I was going at 80 mph and lost over 29% versus what I usually get driving around town. OK, now comes the twist: this wasn't my electric car. I see threads all the time with new owners complaining about Tesla's...

teslamotorsclub.com

I described a trip we took in June 2021, so not bad Winter conditions, but we lost 29% of our efficiency in our gas car just from highway speed and air conditioning. It was kind of surprising. And it was across barren Eastern Idaho, so definitely not gas stations on every corner.

You can't tell grandpa bob that he: shouldn't drive when it's cold,

No one is.

shouldn't drive the speed limit unless it under 65,

No one is.

shouldn't have the heat on in his car,

No one is.

shouldn't drive when it's windy, etc.

No one is.

It's just not reality.

Right--your claims of what people are telling folks are not reality. No one is claiming that someone just shouldn't ever drive in those conditions. It is simply addressing that when people see numbers that aren't like the EPA idealistic ratings, that's just a thing that happens sometimes and isn't something to flip out about.

 

[qdeathstar]

My ICE car loses ~15% range in the cold and at high speeds compared to my MX and MY which lose ~50%,

Bs….

 

[sleepydoc]

Careful not to exaggerate too much on the other side.

That's a lot of loss at highway speed (with a twist)

I just went on a trip and noticed a big drop in efficiency at highway speed. I was going at 80 mph and lost over 29% versus what I usually get driving around town. OK, now comes the twist: this wasn't my electric car. I see threads all the time with new owners complaining about Tesla's...

teslamotorsclub.com

I described a trip we took in June 2021, so not bad Winter conditions, but we lost 29% of our efficiency in our gas car just from highway speed and air conditioning. It was kind of surprising. And it was across barren Eastern Idaho, so definitely not gas stations on every corner.


No one is.

No one is.

No one is.

No one is.

Right--your claims of what people are telling folks are not reality. No one is claiming that someone just shouldn't ever drive in those conditions. It is simply addressing that when people see numbers that aren't like the EPA idealistic ratings, that's just a thing that happens sometimes and isn't something to flip out about.

I was going to reply but you said it far better than I could!

 

[woolymammoth17]

Careful not to exaggerate too much on the other side.

That's a lot of loss at highway speed (with a twist)

I just went on a trip and noticed a big drop in efficiency at highway speed. I was going at 80 mph and lost over 29% versus what I usually get driving around town. OK, now comes the twist: this wasn't my electric car. I see threads all the time with new owners complaining about Tesla's...

teslamotorsclub.com

I described a trip we took in June 2021, so not bad Winter conditions, but we lost 29% of our efficiency in our gas car just from highway speed and air conditioning. It was kind of surprising. And it was across barren Eastern Idaho, so definitely not gas stations on every corner.


No one is.

No one is.

No one is.

No one is.

Right--your claims of what people are telling folks are not reality. No one is claiming that someone just shouldn't ever drive in those conditions. It is simply addressing that when people see numbers that aren't like the EPA idealistic ratings, that's just a thing that happens sometimes and isn't something to flip out about.

I suggest you go back and read through the threads on range problems, LOL. The advice given is literally what I posted, verbatim. Don't drive fast. Don't drive in the cold. Don't drive into the wind. Keep car plugged in so you better have home charging. Lower you heat.

We can have a discussion, but we can't have a discussion when you're making things up.

 

[woolymammoth17]

I understand people want to defend their purchase, but sometimes we have to get back to reality.

I've had two Teslas, a 21MX and 23MY. Both of them lost 40-50% of their range in winter driving conditions depending on specifics that day.

I've had tens of ICE vehicles. None of them lost anything close to 50% of their range in winter conditions... but again, it doesn't matter whether they did or not because filling up is currently much faster and more available.

Love your EV, great, but don't lie to yourself about the pros and cons.

 

[jcanoe]

I can see up to 50% range loss in winter driving conditions in the northern plains states or in Canada. I just can't get my head around such severe winter driving conditions in LA.

 

[MY-Y]

I've tracked my consumption by season for a couple of years now. Winter is the worst, but I don't have near the consumption that some others here do. My consumption for this past winter is shown below. It's really 3.5% lower than shown because I have 3.5% taller tires than stock (255/50r19 Quatrac Pros).

For those seeing really high consumption, perhaps your brakes are hanging a little. I think I saw my consumption drop some when I greased my pins. I had been lazy and waited almost two years to do that.

My consumption seems to be creeping up again, so maybe I'll do that again soon.

 

[Rocky_H]

I suggest you go back and read through the threads on range problems, LOL.

Hmm, I've been on two Tesla forums since about 2012. I've seen them.

The advice given is literally what I posted, verbatim.

No, it isn't. People are wanting to have their cake and eat it, too, but everything is simply choices and tradeoffs. So people offer choices, not telling people to do or don't do things:

Don't drive fast. Don't drive in the cold. Don't drive into the wind. Keep car plugged in so you better have home charging. Lower you heat.

Not so. Here are the choices and tradeoffs:

If you want to drive how you want to? Go for it! Drive fast! Drive in the cold! Drive into the wind! Many people do that and just don't give a f*&^ that their efficiency isn't going to match the published EPA efficiency rating because...of course it can't when you want to drive however you like. And so the tradeoff of choosing faster speed and more heat is simply charging a bit more often and longer, and that's the choice many people prefer.

But the other choice is about people who want to have their efficiency be closer to EPA and are asking questions of what can make that happen. And THAT is where those suggestions you mention come into play about how to achieve THAT goal that people are asking for of reducing the energy consumption if that is people's goal. It's just giving answers to that particular question; not telling people "don't do this".

This is really no different at all from discussions on methods for energy usage for heating or cooling your home. If people want to lower their gas bill and are asking for suggestions, then they may get suggestions about wearing a sweater or turning down the thermostat temperature or closing off an unused bedroom. No one is telling them they HAVE to do those things though. My grandpa hated those kinds of ideas because he said, "I worked my 40 year career and retired so that I can now afford to be comfortable." So they kept their house as warm as they wanted and paid the bill. That was their choice.

 

[Midnightsun]

If you want to drive how you want to? Go for it! Drive fast! Drive in the cold! Drive into the wind! Many people do that and just don't give a f*&^ that their efficiency isn't going to match the published EPA efficiency rating because...of course it can't when you want to drive however you like. And so the tradeoff of choosing faster speed and more heat is simply charging a bit more often and longer, and that's the choice many people prefer.

That pretty much describes me. Simply cannot understand people who ask how those mud flaps affect mileage.

 

[tangible1]

I can see up to 50% range loss in winter driving conditions in the northern plains states or in Canada. I just can't get my head around such severe winter driving conditions in LA.

there are none. zero. unless woolymammoth is driving to Mammoth Mountain or perhaps Big Bear every weekend.

 

[drtimhill]

LOL at defining driving conditions for more than half the country for half the year as "worst case situations."

They aren't "worst case situations," they're just normal driving in the winter for a lot of the US.

The point is, EVs and ICE cars have different energy usage profiles. People are used to ICE cars, so are not surprised when (say) they burn up gas while stuck in an hour-long traffic jam, while the EV energy profile is new, and hence this (and many other) thread from a new EV owner.

 

[drtimhill]

That pretty much describes me. Simply cannot understand people who ask how those mud flaps affect mileage.

Especially as, even with the worst-case efficiency, they are still paying far less per mile driven for EV va ICE.

 

[Rocky_H]

It's also understanding standard conditions and then how much changes affect that.

Gas engines are busy blowing two thirds of their energy out the tailpipe and radiator and are always desperately trying to get rid of this massive amount of waste heat to avoid melting themselves down into slag. The efficiency is horrific all the time! So these other changes of additional losses are like tossing another handful of stuff in the dump truck. They don't move the needle very much.

But electric motors have crazy great efficiency under good conditions--like 90%. But then that's like being on a pedestal. So it's more noticeable when something knocks them down some, as it's a more immediate and larger proportional change.

 

[boulder.dude]

It's also understanding standard conditions and then how much changes affect that.

Gas engines are busy blowing two thirds of their energy out the tailpipe and radiator and are always desperately trying to get rid of this massive amount of waste heat to avoid melting themselves down into slag. The efficiency is horrific all the time! So these other changes of additional losses are like tossing another handful of stuff in the dump truck. They don't move the needle very much.

But electric motors have crazy great efficiency under good conditions--like 90%. But then that's like being on a pedestal. So it's more noticeable when something knocks them down some, as it's a more immediate and larger proportional change.

Put another way, ICE efficiency improves as it gets colder because less of the waste heat is actually wasted — sone of it goes towards warming the cabin and the internal. Conversely, EV efficiency decreases because not only is the cabin being warned but potentially the battery as well. Add on to this the fact that refueling speed of ICE does not worsen in colder temps, but does for EVs.

So people in frigid climates are going to be disappointed going over to EVs until the tech evolves to 120+ kWh packs as the standard.

 

[baluyot]

Has anyone also considered the energy density between gas and battery? That should also be factored in the equation.

 

[MY-Y]

Has anyone also considered the energy density between gas and battery? That should also be factored in the equation.

Sure. My 77.8 kWh battery in my 2020 MY now reports a 71 kWh capacity. There is a 4.5% buffer, so my 100% to 0% energy is 67.8 kWh.

A gallon of gasoline is roughly equivalent to 33.7 kWh, so my battery has the energy of ~2 gallons of gasoline.

I replaced my efficient OEM tires with less efficient 3.5% larger tires in December 2021.

For my average consumption last winter (273 kWh/mi) that'll take me about 250 miles.

Last summer (243 kWh/mi): 279 miles

With my efficient OEM worn tires in summer 2020 (234 kWh/mi): 290 miles.

 

[jcanoe]

One reason that exclusively impacts ICE vehicle efficiency is that the EPA requires winter blends of fuel in most regions of the US in the winter months. There is a ~10% loss of MPG right there.

 

[Midnightsun]

Some facts on effects of winter driving. Fuel Economy in Cold Weather