Well done - To be honest, I’m surprised Tesla didn’t just ignore the claim and subsequent judgement, as they seem to have done with chargegate and rangegate.I'll start with a really quick summary. I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and costs. Just before the court hearing was about to take place, Tesla settled with me, the core of the settlement being:
- FSD removed from my car, e.g. just standard Autopilot
- Tesla paying me a little over £8000
That's the summary, if you'd like to hear more read on! I posted a thread earlier this year (February) to find out if anyone had previous experience suing Tesla about FSD:
No one was able/willing to come forward with their experience, so this post is to help others out who were in the position I was.
Has anyone sued Tesla for FSD costs?
I took delivery of a Model 3 with the FSD box ticked on the first day of UK deliveries, 20th June 2019. Reservation made 18th October 2016, and I think my order speccing the FSD was made 1st May 2019. (Would need to check notes on that last thing.) It's coming up to 4 years since I've had the...teslamotorsclub.com
I took delivery of my Model 3 in the first batch on 20/06/2019 - I think this may have been the first day for delivery. I had ticked the FSD option, which was £5800 on the order agreement. When ordered my Model 3 I was pretty excited about FSD - they were saying the city streets feature was going to be ready by the end of 2019, and had posted the video of a Model X navigating to the Tesla facility and parking. Clearly, history shows they were miles away from delivering on their claim.
After considering this, I thought there was a clear legal claim that I had. The basis of the claim was Consumer Rights Act 2015 (“CRA”), section 11(1), which states:
The Tesla website during 2019 described the goods as follows:
Because I ordered my car from Tesla directly, e.g. their website, any description they used then formed part of the contract - this was the basis of my claim.
The timeline of my interaction with Tesla/the court was as follows. I have attached some of the documents to this post, but redacted my address/car reg/VIN. (I have left in the claim number and my claim - I don't feel the need to redact those.)
2023-02-21: I sent the "Letter Before Action" which set out the legal basis for my claim before starting court action [Doc attached]
2023-03-07: Tesla replied, essentially denying my claim
2023-03-07: I issued court proceedings via the Money Claim Online website, a cost of £455 [Two docs attached]
2023-04-05: Telsa filed their defence which admitted the very thing I was claiming on!
2023-06-07: The court proposed to allocate this to the Small Claims track
2023-06-09: I filed the allocation questionnaire and requested the claim was heard at my local court
2023-08-08: The proceedings were transferred to my local court
2023-10-10: The court set directions (e.g. when witness statements should be exchanged)
2023-10-12: The court set a hearing date of 17th Nov
2023-10-16: Tesla sent a settlement offer... this then led to some to and fro which I'll set out in more detail below
2023-10-27: I signed a revised settlement offer (Tesla had already signed it)
2023-11-02: Two payments received in my bank account; £5,800.00 and £2,215.22
It seems to me like Telsa's desire to settle was triggered by the court hearing date being set. Their initial settlement offer had three things I didn't like in it:
1) They only offered £5800 - but if I was successful in court I would get 8% interest on this amount from 1st Jan 2020 to the judgement, as well as court fees.
2) There was a "non-advice" clause, that I wouldn't help anyone with a similar claim to mine.
3) There was a confidentiality clause, that I wouldn't be able to discuss with anyone about the settlement.
I happened to be on my emails when Tesla's first offer came in, so I replied within two minutes with a rather cheeky email:
Anyway, after the tone had been appropriately set...! I decided to deal with the financial aspect, so I wrote back to Tesla to tell them that I thought I'd be successful in my court claim and essentially they'd have to pay the full value of the claim.
They then responded on 17th Oct with a new settlement agreement at the higher financial value I required, but £285.75 short. (They had the full amount of the claim that I issued, but my claim also had interest accruing at £1.27 per day.) I then came back to them in two emails to make a few changes:
- Add the £285.75 to the settlement amount
- Tidy up the legal language
- Remove the "non-advice" clause
- Remove the confidentiality clause
They came back to me saying they accepted most of the amendments but wouldn't remove the non-advice and confidentiality clauses.
Quite simply, I wasn't going to sign anything that put me in handcuffs and restrained what I could do. I would prefer to go to court and lose. I saw these two positions as impossible to meet in the middle - e.g. Tesla had said they're not removing the non-advice and confidentiality clauses, but I said it was a requirement for the settlement for them to do so. I didn't respond to their latest settlement offer and then on 24th Oct I had a follow up email saying they hadn't heard back from their 20th Oct email. (The 20th Oct one had the full financial value I was after, but kept the non-advice and confidentiality clauses. I replied saying:
This led to them removing the two clauses, and we then proceeded to sign the settlement, they asked for my bank details and then made payment/removed FSD from my car.
By way of commentary, I think my claim was an absolute slam-dunk from a legal POV. Their defence had set out they intend to deliver city street driving in the future; therefore they hadn't delivered it by the end of 2019 which was what their website claimed they would do. The website was the description used to sell the car, and so the website formed part of the contract - very clear breach of contract.
From Telsa's POV, I am the worst type of litigator to take on. I am not a lawyer, but deal with them quite often in my day job so I know enough to put in a small claims action with confidence. The money wasn't important to me, I felt they'd conned me and I wanted them to do the right thing and put it right. Moreover, because the money wasn't important to me I was never going to sign up to a non-advice/confidentiality clause, I think it's important that my experience is out there for others to form their own views from.
There's lots of other detail I could put into this post, but I thought these were the interesting points. Happy to answer any questions!
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My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD
- Thread starter edb49
- Start date
Fantastic thanks. I’m in exactly the same position and filing my papers this week. You’ve done all the work for me. I took them to court over premium connectivity and won.
Well done to the OP. To be honest, I'm not sure why the whole FSD thing wasn't challenged way before this and the over optimistic performance claims dismantled. Having followed the angst on here since 2019, it's clear to me it was never going to achieve what it claimed. As a tech-lover I considered buying it in 2019 but didn't - and so glad I dodged a bullet. Hopefully this opens a path for others to get their (arguably wasted) cash back. I really like my car in many ways, but never bother even with basic AP as it just isn't reliable enough.
It may very well have been, but as well docummeted by @edb49 Tesla were willing to settle with gagging strings attached - I suspect many would not have had the admirable bloody-mindedness of edb49 and just took the money and stayed schtum.
I don't have enough privileges to like various posts and comments in this thread but well done @edb49. I'll only tag the author but there are plenty of other comments I liked as well.
Pagemakers
Active Member
Why will your case open the floodgates as opposed to any other?
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
My recollection of the rhetoric, back at that time, is along the lines of:
Your car drives you to work (yeah you'd need to be a screw-short to pay £X,000 just for that)
You get out of your car and tell it "Go earn some money" and it spends the day being a Robotaxi, taking fares, and periodically taking itself to a Supercharger to top-up, and then picks you up from work at the end of the day and drives you home. Even the saving in driving around and not having to pay car park fees would probably pay back the original sum!!!
Drew57
Active ember
Early adopters have every right to feel aggrieved and it's great to see this positive result, I hope this will inspire many more to do the same.
It's par for the course that Tesla still offer something so cynically marketed as Full Self Driving in the UK. However it's disappointing to see new owners still purchasing it given the ease of researching just how hobbled it is.
It's par for the course that Tesla still offer something so cynically marketed as Full Self Driving in the UK. However it's disappointing to see new owners still purchasing it given the ease of researching just how hobbled it is.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
The Wayback machine has a *LOT* of captures of tesla.com that may be helpful for anyone on this endeavor.
Billbrown1982
TM3 LR 2021 | Red | FSD
I paid 7500 for FSD in 2021. I knew it didn't exist as such yet but I did see it as an investment into a potential future and watching FSD progress in the USA was exactly what I'd hope to see.
What I didn't account for and/or missed during my research, was the fact that it would be so hamstrung over here and potentially never see the light of day thanks to legislation.
That was my mistake. If I had FSD Beta like they do in the states, honestly i'd be a very happy boy.
What I didn't account for and/or missed during my research, was the fact that it would be so hamstrung over here and potentially never see the light of day thanks to legislation.
That was my mistake. If I had FSD Beta like they do in the states, honestly i'd be a very happy boy.
Congratulations on your success. I bought my 2019 M3 LR new having been on the waiting list for 5 years but for some reason did not choose FSD. FSD was one of the reasons for looking at Tesla in the first place. I was very glad that I did not as my conclusion after using Autopilot for a few months was that FSD was decades away and I still think that is still true. If version 12 is going to be the real thing then there will be a lot of nines at the end of the 11. version number before then. I hope that I am wrong but you never know. I still have the car and will keep it unless I can get a good deal on a model Y.I'll start with a really quick summary. I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and costs. Just before the court hearing was about to take place, Tesla settled with me, the core of the settlement being:
- FSD removed from my car, e.g. just standard Autopilot
- Tesla paying me a little over £8000
That's the summary, if you'd like to hear more read on! I posted a thread earlier this year (February) to find out if anyone had previous experience suing Tesla about FSD:
No one was able/willing to come forward with their experience, so this post is to help others out who were in the position I was.Has anyone sued Tesla for FSD costs?
I took delivery of a Model 3 with the FSD box ticked on the first day of UK deliveries, 20th June 2019. Reservation made 18th October 2016, and I think my order speccing the FSD was made 1st May 2019. (Would need to check notes on that last thing.) It's coming up to 4 years since I've had the...
I took delivery of my Model 3 in the first batch on 20/06/2019 - I think this may have been the first day for delivery. I had ticked the FSD option, which was £5800 on the order agreement. When ordered my Model 3 I was pretty excited about FSD - they were saying the city streets feature was going to be ready by the end of 2019, and had posted the video of a Model X navigating to the Tesla facility and parking. Clearly, history shows they were miles away from delivering on their claim.
After considering this, I thought there was a clear legal claim that I had. The basis of the claim was Consumer Rights Act 2015 (“CRA”), section 11(1), which states:
The Tesla website during 2019 described the goods as follows:
Because I ordered my car from Tesla directly, e.g. their website, any description they used then formed part of the contract - this was the basis of my claim.
The timeline of my interaction with Tesla/the court was as follows. I have attached some of the documents to this post, but redacted my address/car reg/VIN. (I have left in the claim number and my claim - I don't feel the need to redact those.)
2023-02-21: I sent the "Letter Before Action" which set out the legal basis for my claim before starting court action [Doc attached]
2023-03-07: Tesla replied, essentially denying my claim
2023-03-07: I issued court proceedings via the Money Claim Online website, a cost of £455 [Two docs attached]
2023-04-05: Telsa filed their defence which admitted the very thing I was claiming on!
2023-06-07: The court proposed to allocate this to the Small Claims track
2023-06-09: I filed the allocation questionnaire and requested the claim was heard at my local court
2023-08-08: The proceedings were transferred to my local court
2023-10-10: The court set directions (e.g. when witness statements should be exchanged)
2023-10-12: The court set a hearing date of 17th Nov
2023-10-16: Tesla sent a settlement offer... this then led to some to and fro which I'll set out in more detail below
2023-10-27: I signed a revised settlement offer (Tesla had already signed it)
2023-11-02: Two payments received in my bank account; £5,800.00 and £2,215.22
It seems to me like Telsa's desire to settle was triggered by the court hearing date being set. Their initial settlement offer had three things I didn't like in it:
1) They only offered £5800 - but if I was successful in court I would get 8% interest on this amount from 1st Jan 2020 to the judgement, as well as court fees.
2) There was a "non-advice" clause, that I wouldn't help anyone with a similar claim to mine.
3) There was a confidentiality clause, that I wouldn't be able to discuss with anyone about the settlement.
I happened to be on my emails when Tesla's first offer came in, so I replied within two minutes with a rather cheeky email:
Anyway, after the tone had been appropriately set...! I decided to deal with the financial aspect, so I wrote back to Tesla to tell them that I thought I'd be successful in my court claim and essentially they'd have to pay the full value of the claim.
They then responded on 17th Oct with a new settlement agreement at the higher financial value I required, but £285.75 short. (They had the full amount of the claim that I issued, but my claim also had interest accruing at £1.27 per day.) I then came back to them in two emails to make a few changes:
- Add the £285.75 to the settlement amount
- Tidy up the legal language
- Remove the "non-advice" clause
- Remove the confidentiality clause
They came back to me saying they accepted most of the amendments but wouldn't remove the non-advice and confidentiality clauses.
Quite simply, I wasn't going to sign anything that put me in handcuffs and restrained what I could do. I would prefer to go to court and lose. I saw these two positions as impossible to meet in the middle - e.g. Tesla had said they're not removing the non-advice and confidentiality clauses, but I said it was a requirement for the settlement for them to do so. I didn't respond to their latest settlement offer and then on 24th Oct I had a follow up email saying they hadn't heard back from their 20th Oct email. (The 20th Oct one had the full financial value I was after, but kept the non-advice and confidentiality clauses. I replied saying:
This led to them removing the two clauses, and we then proceeded to sign the settlement, they asked for my bank details and then made payment/removed FSD from my car.
By way of commentary, I think my claim was an absolute slam-dunk from a legal POV. Their defence had set out they intend to deliver city street driving in the future; therefore they hadn't delivered it by the end of 2019 which was what their website claimed they would do. The website was the description used to sell the car, and so the website formed part of the contract - very clear breach of contract.
From Telsa's POV, I am the worst type of litigator to take on. I am not a lawyer, but deal with them quite often in my day job so I know enough to put in a small claims action with confidence. The money wasn't important to me, I felt they'd conned me and I wanted them to do the right thing and put it right. Moreover, because the money wasn't important to me I was never going to sign up to a non-advice/confidentiality clause, I think it's important that my experience is out there for others to form their own views from.
There's lots of other detail I could put into this post, but I thought these were the interesting points. Happy to answer any questions!
The witness statement is here:
My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD
I have surprisingly mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm really glad you had a good outcome and quite deservedly so. I think I'm a little torn about the potential precedent it sets though. I will admit Tesla has MANY faults but I also really like a lot of the things they do differently...
teslamotorsclub.com
I don't seem to have permissions to edit my original post to add it, otherwise I would be happy to.
Zilla91
Active Member
MrBadger
Badger out
Important to stress that whilst hobbled by regulations in this country, it’s hobbled by Tesla not meeting regulations that would go a significant way to providing a useful implementation rather than regulations simply saying no to anything.
A bit like a learner driver blaming regulations on them not being able to drive rather than them not having passed their driving test.
Can you explain this please? In what way that Tesla not meeting UK regulations on Summon, FSD (NoA) or anything else!
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