NEMA 14-50 is dead - all hail NEMA 6-50

[rhaekar]

it needs to be a higher end one to get a the dual cable

It really makes you appreciate how Tesla designed their's to use cheap adapters vs buying a new $500 cable.

 

[F14Scott]

audi etron as well

He said name one, not two...

 

[mswlogo]

So this may seem a bit controversial, but now that Tesla is no longer shipping the 14-50 adapters with the UMC / new vehicles, I would like to throw out there that 14-50 is perhaps no longer the logical receptacle to install for home installations.

Here are the benefits of a 6-50 receptacle over a 14-50:

• Does not require a neutral wire which is an added cost
• Cable is smaller in diameter and more flexible, so easier to install
• Receptacle is less expensive
• Less wires required in the wall box makes for easier installation

Here are the downsides of a 6-50 over a 14-50:

• Future EVSEs might not come with a 6-50 receptacle option (though there are J1772 EVSE's that support 6-50 right now)
• You can't use the receptacle for visiting RV's (most EV owners won't care about this)
• Buying the 14-50 adapter from Tesla instead of the 6-50 would allow you to use that 14-50 adapter elsewhere when on the road (and 14-50 is more common these days than 6-50)

Here is a back-of-the-napkin example of a basic installation cost comparison:

View attachment 404018

Now this assumes basic 6 gauge copper NM cable and at 100 feet (which perhaps is a little longer than the average install?)

The 14-50 comes out to be almost 62% more expensive!

Now, if you are paying a professional to install this, the vast majority of the cost is probably their labor and the delta cost for them to do a 14-50 vs. a 6-50 is not much (6-50 is going to be less stiff so perhaps marginally easier to install).

Am I missing anything here?

What do you think?

Add UMC to keep in car.
Add GFCI breaker (now code).

All hail the Wall Connector.

No GFCI needed
Keep Mobile Connector for Mobile use in your car like it was intended to do.

Price comes out nearly the same.

 

[darth_vad3r]

So this may seem a bit controversial, but now that Tesla is no longer shipping the 14-50 adapters with the UMC / new vehicles, I would like to throw out there that 14-50 is perhaps no longer the logical receptacle to install for home installations.

Here are the benefits of a 6-50 receptacle over a 14-50:

• Does not require a neutral wire which is an added cost
• Cable is smaller in diameter and more flexible, so easier to install
• Receptacle is less expensive
• Less wires required in the wall box makes for easier installation

Here are the downsides of a 6-50 over a 14-50:

• Future EVSEs might not come with a 6-50 receptacle option (though there are J1772 EVSE's that support 6-50 right now)
• You can't use the receptacle for visiting RV's (most EV owners won't care about this)
• Buying the 14-50 adapter from Tesla instead of the 6-50 would allow you to use that 14-50 adapter elsewhere when on the road (and 14-50 is more common these days than 6-50)

Here is a back-of-the-napkin example of a basic installation cost comparison:

View attachment 404018

Now this assumes basic 6 gauge copper NM cable and at 100 feet (which perhaps is a little longer than the average install?)

The 14-50 comes out to be almost 62% more expensive!

Now, if you are paying a professional to install this, the vast majority of the cost is probably their labor and the delta cost for them to do a 14-50 vs. a 6-50 is not much (6-50 is going to be less stiff so perhaps marginally easier to install).

Am I missing anything here?

What do you think?

LOL, your napkin looks a lot like a spreadsheet.

I’d say if you use part of the savings for the 14-50 adapter you are in better shape (as the Tesla owner) since you now have equivalent home charging setup, two adapters for the road, and more money in your pocket. The downside is minimal. As you said, if a visiting RV wants to plug in, they can’t. Or I f you buy some future non-Tesla electric appliance/car that has 14-50 but no 6-50. Easy. Don’t buy a stove for your garage. Don’t buy a non-Tesla EV

 

[Avid]

This is kind of an interesting discussion, when did they stop shipping the 14-50 adapters with new cars? I took delivery on 4/16, and mine came with one.

The outlet cost appears to be widely variable, but they certainly can be had for less than that. I believe I paid $7.86 at my local home improvement store for my 14-50 outlet. The three wire cable is more expensive for sure, but beyond that I don't see much of an advantage of the 6-50. The Mobile Connector certainly checks for that neutral circuit, though… When testing the wiring my neutral slipped off in the breaker box and the indicator on the Connector turned red and stopped charging. It may not use it, but it certainly wants it to be there for some reason.

Hey Tom, that most certainly is the Leviton that I also had bought and installed. It has been found to be less than appropriate for our needs, overheat and melting potential. I went with the Bryant from Zoro, it cost more but less than the highly recommended Hubbell. Fortunately, the Bryant is also made by Hubbell, so no loss in quality. If you decide to continue with the Leviton, it is recommended to make a routine of checking the connections for looseness.

See this thread: NEMA 14-50 Plug Meltdown / Near Fire

 

[mswlogo]

Hey Tom, that most certainly is the Leviton that I also had bought and installed. It has been found to be less than appropriate for our needs, overheat and melting potential. I went with the Bryant from Zoro, it cost more but less than the highly recommended Hubbell. Fortunately, the Bryant is also made by Hubbell, so no loss in quality. If you decide to continue with the Leviton, it is recommended to make a routine of checking the connections for looseness.

See this thread: NEMA 14-50 Plug Meltdown / Near Fire

Keep in mind a lot of the "Meltdowns" are from Gen 1 UMC's that could pull 40A and I'm not sure if they had Temp Sensors.
The UMC Gen 2 is safer, especially when installed (up to new code) with GFCI, has Temp Sensor in the plug, and only Pulls 32A Max.

 

[TomB985]

Hey Tom, that most certainly is the Leviton that I also had bought and installed. It has been found to be less than appropriate for our needs, overheat and melting potential. I went with the Bryant from Zoro, it cost more but less than the highly recommended Hubbell. Fortunately, the Bryant is also made by Hubbell, so no loss in quality. If you decide to continue with the Leviton, it is recommended to make a routine of checking the connections for looseness.

See this thread: NEMA 14-50 Plug Meltdown / Near Fire

Thanks for the post, I had no idea this was even a problem.

I just went out and took a look at mine, it appears to be a Pass &Seymour plug. I'm not sure if that's any better or worse than the Leviton unit that almost burnt your house down, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for this. I'll recheck the terminals in another month or two… What were you getting for charging voltage at full current?

 

[Avid]

That wasn't my house in the thread I listed. Just a fyi.

 

[gaswalla]

An additional benefit - 6-50 plug is the standard for welding equipment ... You never know what DiY project you'll need to do in your garage

 

[gibbyj]

That's one way to view it. The other is that the 6-50 is really a better match for EV charging, since no EVSE will ever have mixed 120/240V loads. So unless you plan to use the outlet for something else (e.g. feeding an RV in case the outlet is outside) you're probably wasting money on a 14-50.

Well, for your own use at home, you can always just buy cable with 3 wires only, and leave out the neutral wire. But you would certainly need to prominently and permanently mark your outlet accordingly. And BTW, I am finding it nice to create for myself a long extension cord that leaves out the neutral wire, AND leaves out the neutral PLUG TERMINAL. This plug will then fit both 14-50 and 14-30 dryer outlets; very handy. Again, prominently marked...

 

[Rocky_H]

Well, for your own use at home, you can always just buy cable with 3 wires only, and leave out the neutral wire. But you would certainly need to prominently and permanently mark your outlet accordingly.

No, no, no. You are misunderstanding. Don't ever do this--intentionally installing a mis-wired outlet into your home in violation of National Electric Code. That's all kinds of bad. There are proper official outlet types that are made for only 240V and ground, that only use those three wires. You do not just put a 14-50 outlet on there and omit connecting one of the slots and then put a label on it to indicate that it is installed wrong. Just don't do that or recommend that to anyone, please.

And BTW, I am finding it nice to create for myself a long extension cord that leaves out the neutral wire, AND leaves out the neutral PLUG TERMINAL. This plug will then fit both 14-50 and 14-30 dryer outlets; very handy. Again, prominently marked...

OK, this is another matter entirely, and is fine for people to do, because it's not something installed in your house.

 

[ewoodrick]

That is utter nonsense. Name another EV that comes with a 14-50 plug on its power cord.

Both of my Leafs

 

[SMAlset]

So this may seem a bit controversial, but now that Tesla is no longer shipping the 14-50 adapters with the UMC / new vehicles, I would like to throw out there that 14-50 is perhaps no longer the logical receptacle to install for home installations.

Here are the benefits of a 6-50 receptacle over a 14-50:

• Does not require a neutral wire which is an added cost
• Cable is smaller in diameter and more flexible, so easier to install
• Receptacle is less expensive
• Less wires required in the wall box makes for easier installation

Here are the downsides of a 6-50 over a 14-50:

• Future EVSEs might not come with a 6-50 receptacle option (though there are J1772 EVSE's that support 6-50 right now)
• You can't use the receptacle for visiting RV's (most EV owners won't care about this)
• Buying the 14-50 adapter from Tesla instead of the 6-50 would allow you to use that 14-50 adapter elsewhere when on the road (and 14-50 is more common these days than 6-50)

Here is a back-of-the-napkin example of a basic installation cost comparison:

View attachment 404018

Now this assumes basic 6 gauge copper NM cable and at 100 feet (which perhaps is a little longer than the average install?)

The 14-50 comes out to be almost 62% more expensive!

Now, if you are paying a professional to install this, the vast majority of the cost is probably their labor and the delta cost for them to do a 14-50 vs. a 6-50 is not much (6-50 is going to be less stiff so perhaps marginally easier to install).

Am I missing anything here?

What do you think?

Since this thread got resurrected recently...my thought is if you are going to be so obsessive over installing a 6-50 0ver a 14-50 after buying this car, I don't get the penny pinching so to speak. If you ever need to run power tools or if someone working in your home is doing remodeling work for you, re-landscaping your yard and needing a stone cutter, etc. you'll be glad you put in the 14-50. Probably more times the 14-50 will be used than the 6-50 for welding in one's home.

 

[SMAlset]

OP, you're wrong about why the 14-50 adapter isn't given away for free anymore. Tesla realized they could further enhance corporate profits by selling it separately, just as they do with the 6-50.

I realize you are somewhat new to Tesla being a fairly new Model 3 owner, but you are wrong to make that comparison. One, the 14-50 was never "free"; it was factored into the car's purchase price since they equipped each car with the mobile kit on delivery. The kits use to cost much more too, and I remember this from when we bought our Model S back in early 2017. They switched up what was in the kit as people weren't using all the adapters but ultimately were paying for them (directly if they ordered one online or indirectly if it came with their car which all Teslas do). And with Model 3 owners maybe being more budget conscious and being in the 100+Ks sold and the fact that Tesla is about the environment, why give hundreds of thousands of people parts they might not ever use? I think they made a good decision on many fronts. Might want to read this.

Tesla releases 40% cheaper next-gen mobile connector for Model 3, S, and X - Electrek

At some point they got feedback that people would use the J1772 more than the 14-50 so that was changed up more recently in the kit. Of course there would be people who choose to see Tesla in a bad light and look at this as corporate greed.

 

[Rocky_H]

Both of my Leafs

What the hell? You just like piling on? Didn't you see that someone already corrected me with that same answer in this very thread back in May? I then admitted that I had not known about that...also back in May. Leave it alone, man.

 

[dmurphy]

Since this thread got resurrected recently...my thought is if you are going to be so obsessive over installing a 6-50 0ver a 14-50 after buying this car, I don't get the penny pinching so to speak. If you ever need to run power tools or if someone working in your home is doing remodeling work for you, re-landscaping your yard and needing a stone cutter, etc. you'll be glad you put in the 14-50. Probably more times the 14-50 will be used than the 6-50 for welding in one's home.

bingo. Spot on. And if, for some craaaazy reason you need a 6-50, well, here ya go.

https://www.hobartweldshop.com/adap...mpion-elite-champion-10-000-welder-generator/

Electrical work is the one area NOT to cut corners.

As an example, when we installed our outdoor HPWC, our electrician also added a quick-disconnect box. It's not "strictly" required - more of an AHJ rule than a hard-and-fast NEC requirement, but sure sounded like a good idea to me. Better to spend a few bucks and do it right, than cheap out ..... Also makes it much easier to swap out the HPWC for something else if that becomes a thing down the line ...

 

[luke68bird]

When I travel to my parents house they have a 2 6-50 outlets. One for welder and one for kiln so 6-50 is more popular in certain ways.

 

[chowfun]

bingo. Spot on. And if, for some craaaazy reason you need a 6-50, well, here ya go.

https://www.hobartweldshop.com/adap...mpion-elite-champion-10-000-welder-generator/

Electrical work is the one area NOT to cut corners.

As an example, when we installed our outdoor HPWC, our electrician also added a quick-disconnect box. It's not "strictly" required - more of an AHJ rule than a hard-and-fast NEC requirement, but sure sounded like a good idea to me. Better to spend a few bucks and do it right, than cheap out ..... Also makes it much easier to swap out the HPWC for something else if that becomes a thing down the line ...

Thanks for the link. Google search was showing $60+ for an adapter. I have a 14-50 receptacle, but thinking about using this with a ChargePoint Home charger. Local utility is offering $500 rebate to install a charger, but CPH doesn't have a 14-50 plug. :/

 

[dmurphy]

Thanks for the link. Google search was showing $60+ for an adapter. I have a 14-50 receptacle, but thinking about using this with a ChargePoint Home charger. Local utility is offering $500 rebate to install a charger, but CPH doesn't have a 14-50 plug. :/

Just FYI - this has 8ga wire in the adapter. I believe the CPH draws 32amps, so you're plenty fine with the 8ga wire.

If you need it, I'd suggest jumping on it - that website is showing limited quantities available, and $19.99 is a steal of a price. (was originally $49.99).

 

[amalag]

Interesting discussion. But the real answer is do what is suitable when you understand you don't need a neutral wire. If your panel is 10 feet away and it doesn't matter, go ahead and do 14-50.

It becomes a bigger issue if your electric panel is two floors away and want to fish armored MC cable through drywall and drill through studs to install it. You don't want the extra thickness of an extra 6 AWG wire that you will never use. In that case it makes sense to not include the neutral wire.