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Octopus Energy, including Intelligent and go
- Thread starter UrbanSplash
- Start date
Drew57
Active ember
Update from Alex in the Smart team today:
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phil4
Member
Odd update that... since was a change made at the end of August... and we're now a week into November. A bit "old news" really.
On the plus side, gave me a link I wasn't aware of to provide feedback, ideas etc... so I did
On the plus side, gave me a link I wasn't aware of to provide feedback, ideas etc... so I did
Pink Duck
Active Member
I looked into the Saving Session In Day Adjustment, for those curious: (using 329_04A1_P376 Balancing and Settlement Code v0.8)
Baseline metered volume for trailing 6 half hour periods (excluding the hour leading up to start of each 1-hour Settlement Period) (i.e. 3 hours on the day of announced Saving Session versus the day itself, given an hour offset for live smart meter data to be received in time)
In Day Adjustment = Sum(Yesterday’s half-hour n - Today’s half-hour n) / 6 : 1…n…6
Baselined Value = Unadjusted baseline (for each weekday/weekend half hour typical usage) + In Day Adjustment (average half hourly up/down)
So, if using typically more the day before in 3 hours leading to the time an hour before Saving Session window opens, calculated trailing usage will be lifted upwards, and so Saving Points increased.
If using less the day before in 3 hours leading to the time an hour before Saving Session window, calculated trailing usage will be lowered, and the Saving Points decreased.
The In Day part referring to the actual meter values on the day of Saving Session to compensate for local differences as if there was no announcement.
So if you can guess when a Savings Session will be, or indeed if they announce it 4 hours before the time of the event itself, there's gain to be had by consuming more load than typical (or your already higher-weighted peak demand)
Baseline metered volume for trailing 6 half hour periods (excluding the hour leading up to start of each 1-hour Settlement Period) (i.e. 3 hours on the day of announced Saving Session versus the day itself, given an hour offset for live smart meter data to be received in time)
In Day Adjustment = Sum(Yesterday’s half-hour n - Today’s half-hour n) / 6 : 1…n…6
Baselined Value = Unadjusted baseline (for each weekday/weekend half hour typical usage) + In Day Adjustment (average half hourly up/down)
So, if using typically more the day before in 3 hours leading to the time an hour before Saving Session window opens, calculated trailing usage will be lifted upwards, and so Saving Points increased.
If using less the day before in 3 hours leading to the time an hour before Saving Session window, calculated trailing usage will be lowered, and the Saving Points decreased.
The In Day part referring to the actual meter values on the day of Saving Session to compensate for local differences as if there was no announcement.
So if you can guess when a Savings Session will be, or indeed if they announce it 4 hours before the time of the event itself, there's gain to be had by consuming more load than typical (or your already higher-weighted peak demand
)
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1. Query
My reading of “The Unadjusted Baseline Values create a profile shape for a day based on previous days’ data” is that it isn’t just yesterday, but the 10 day average.
2. Do I have this right?:
To maximise a saving: Increase Baseline Value, increase In Day Adjustment, decrease usage during the Saving Session. So...
Octopus say Saving Sessions likely to be 4pm to 7pm. Assuming that, a strategy might be on most days, avoid using electricity 1pm-4pm (to increase the In Day Adjustment). Shift those loads to be on-peak, 4pm to 7pm (to increase the Baseline Value). On the day of a Saving Session, shift any load to be the 3 hours before the Savings Session (to increase In Day Adjustment). Charge your car for the 3 hours before the Saving Session (to increase the In Day Adjustment). Obviously switch off during the Saving Session (decrease usage during the Saving Session).
While the rebate is £3/kWh and you'll charge the car at no more than 42p/kWh. 21 kWh x £2.58 = £54.18?
Incentivising load shifting to be On-Peak 'most days' to maximise savings for the 'few days' seems a bit wrong to me. For the unintended consequences / behavioural change this is interesting: https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/267731/download Page 2:
Source
P376 is available here: P376 'Utilising a Baselining Methodology to set Physical Notifications' - Elexon BSC download zip file "February 2023 BSC Release - Approved P376 Configurable Items"
My reading of “The Unadjusted Baseline Values create a profile shape for a day based on previous days’ data” is that it isn’t just yesterday, but the 10 day average.
Could you double check 'In Day Adjustment' calc too: Isn't “Baselined Entity Metered Volume” the actual volumes from the day of the Savings Session and “Unadjusted Baseline Value” the 10 day baseline? i.e. In Day Adjustment = Sum(Today's half-hour n - Baseline half-hour n) / 6 : 1…n…6
2. Do I have this right?:
To maximise a saving: Increase Baseline Value, increase In Day Adjustment, decrease usage during the Saving Session. So...
Octopus say Saving Sessions likely to be 4pm to 7pm. Assuming that, a strategy might be on most days, avoid using electricity 1pm-4pm (to increase the In Day Adjustment). Shift those loads to be on-peak, 4pm to 7pm (to increase the Baseline Value). On the day of a Saving Session, shift any load to be the 3 hours before the Savings Session (to increase In Day Adjustment). Charge your car for the 3 hours before the Saving Session (to increase the In Day Adjustment). Obviously switch off during the Saving Session (decrease usage during the Saving Session).
While the rebate is £3/kWh and you'll charge the car at no more than 42p/kWh. 21 kWh x £2.58 = £54.18?
Incentivising load shifting to be On-Peak 'most days' to maximise savings for the 'few days' seems a bit wrong to me. For the unintended consequences / behavioural change this is interesting: https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/267731/download Page 2:
Source
P376 is available here: P376 'Utilising a Baselining Methodology to set Physical Notifications' - Elexon BSC download zip file "February 2023 BSC Release - Approved P376 Configurable Items"
Suspect the goal posts could move quite quickly:
octopus.energy
Saving Sessions Terms & Conditions
Full terms and conditions for taking part in Octopus Energy's Saving Sessions
octopus.energy
I’ve been having issues with the IO schedule being generated this week.
When i plug in at around 8pm the session hasn’t shown in Octopus app by 11pm.
As I didn’t want to risk being too low for a long journey the next day I started the charge manually from Tesla app at 11pm (figuring it was only going to be 30mins peak rate).
Reviewing the charge the next day (via Tessie app) it looks like the charge was then stopped 10mins later and restarted a few hours later.
Anyone else with similar experience? Would it have been ok had I not started the charge manually? I’ve done this twice now as I didn’t want to risk it.
When i plug in at around 8pm the session hasn’t shown in Octopus app by 11pm.
As I didn’t want to risk being too low for a long journey the next day I started the charge manually from Tesla app at 11pm (figuring it was only going to be 30mins peak rate).
Reviewing the charge the next day (via Tessie app) it looks like the charge was then stopped 10mins later and restarted a few hours later.
Anyone else with similar experience? Would it have been ok had I not started the charge manually? I’ve done this twice now as I didn’t want to risk it.
phil4
Member
IO will defo stop your car charging if it starts. The suggested way of working is to not set any schedules on your car, just plug it in and IO will stop it. Personally I don't do that, but it does work that way.
So your question really seems to be whether you should trust IO. Since it doesn't need your agreement on the plan it proposes, yes, I think it's reasonably safe to assume it will charge. I've never had it not do so.
But equally to stop it charging when I plug in, I set the car to try at 23:45. IO stops it and then does it's own thing. That's fine by me. Belt and braces I reckon.
And yes, last night I never even saw the schedule because I was asleep by then. It's one area I wish they'd improve. Either check a little more often, or better still let me ask.
So your question really seems to be whether you should trust IO. Since it doesn't need your agreement on the plan it proposes, yes, I think it's reasonably safe to assume it will charge. I've never had it not do so.
But equally to stop it charging when I plug in, I set the car to try at 23:45. IO stops it and then does it's own thing. That's fine by me. Belt and braces I reckon.
And yes, last night I never even saw the schedule because I was asleep by then. It's one area I wish they'd improve. Either check a little more often, or better still let me ask.
Thanks for the response - yeah my question is should I trust it to charge, given that I don’t see a schedule in the app at 11pm.
I admit I’ve not had a problem yet (in 6 weeks of ownership) and don’t always check. However when you do check it would be reassuring to see the schedule and not have inconsistent behaviour!
phil4
Member
I've been running IO for a few months and not had a problem, but equally a) I set the car to try at 23:45, so if it falls over altogether it'll still get some juice and b) if it didn't charge, 99% of the time it wouldn't be the end of the world.
Yes, I had similar issues last week that I posted on this thread.
Couple hours for the schedule to appear, a lot of stop & go charges during the night.
Either Octopus is having some intermittent issues, or I suspect there are some days where they don't want you to charge, even at night and are using a bit of their discretionary power to suspend charges bases on your previous patterns... Will definitely escalate this to them if it continues but after months of flawless charges, I have some reservations lately...
They do not have intermittent issues.
The back end has been re-configured to poll the Tesla API less frequently in order to stop the car being kept awake. It's nothing more conspiratorial than that. This has brought it's own niggles but it unless they can find some happy medium it's what we need to put up with.
That would explain why it takes several hours to pull up a charge schedule, although I've read that after 5pm it's not supposed to take that long even post 31-Aug update, but that does not explain why it randomly disconnect the car mid-charge between 23.30 & 5.30...
That's by design. Although charging slots are nominally allocated HH, Octopus actually have finer control and can pause a charge mid slot if it helps with grid balancing.
In fact, although IO is sold as an amorphous service, depending on which integration you have Octopus can do all sorts of things. Those on the Ohme charger beta can also have the current dynamically altered, although this doesn't happen through the Tesla integration.
I have no issues with that as long as it brings my car to the target level I set before. If it undercharges when I wake up in the morning then I'm not happy.
Reposting the ridiculous charging pattern I got last week, don't tell me the 1 min, 3 mins, and 10 mins pauses helped with the grid... I'd rather opt for 'it's buggy'...
On the long run (based on the last few months/year) it's still way more expensive to run assuming a 50/50 split between house consumption and EV charging.
Unless you have excellent intel that prices are definitely going that way for the forseeable future I wouldn't want to risk my locked-in IO tariff at 7.5p at night to make the switch as you can't go back on it anymore...
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