Older Teslas limited to 90kW Supercharging

[Andrew]

I do agree to a large extent, but supercharging is a cornerstone of Tesla's product and viral marketing. When parking sensors, the P+, and such came out it's unfortunate I couldn't get them, but those are ala-carte luxury add on items. Clearly it's a subjective line, but supercharging capability (whether activated or not) feels like different beast.

I agree. I think this probably should be a "hardware upgrade" to be included in the annual service contract.

Having said that, we don't yet know if they'll do the upgrade for low-VIN vehicles, so perhaps we should try to find that out before we do anything else.

 

[Chris]

Agreed. Let's first have facts before we get too upset. Tesla certainly cannot provide upgrades to the latest and greatest all the time. However the superchargers are advertised with the specs and nowhere does it say 'higher charging currents only available with newer models', correct?

 

[ckessel]

Having said that, we don't yet know if they'll do the upgrade for low-VIN vehicles, so perhaps we should try to find that out before we do anything else.

Yea. I did note I'm hoping to hear back more info, though that's probably been overshadowed in the flurry and fervor of my (and others) posts.

While I'll certainly kibitz on discussions here, I'm not going to push on Tesla until next week to give the guy I talked to at least a few days to get back to me with any new info. No matter what they might do for me personally, I do feel Tesla has to make some clear distinction publicly available on SC support available in each car as that impacts the used car market.

 

[Mike_Schlechter]

I have VIN 1590 and have not seen the higher rate of charge, and I supercharge fairly often. I am sure Tesla won't leave the early adopters in the lurch. However, if this is an annual service contract thing I might get a little annoyed, as CT doesn't allow the service plans, so I don't have one. I'd hate to have to pay extra due to arcane legislation and innovative improvements to my beloved Model S.

 

[ElSupreme]

Not apples to apples. Tesla doesn't magically have a month where some owners magically got bonus AWD and some didn't.

Two Model S roll off the line on the same day, one has 120kwh SC hardware and one has 90kwh SC hardware. They are the same price. Which do you feel is worth more?

I walk into a store and the iPhone4 sits next to the new iPhone5. Do you think they'd be the same price?

This is a fair point. But also look at the many of other changes Tesla did taking away things from later purchasers. They got black plastic inserts in their trunk, instead of chrome. They didn't get cup pinchers (puncturers). And the whole alacantara and fog lamp fiascos as well. So they have taken things away as well.

But think of it this way. Tesla is making Model Ss, and they are using a 3G ATT antenna/chipset. And one day their supplier offers a direct replacement 3G/4GLTE ATT antenna/chipset, that tests fine with Tesla. Should they hold back putting in that chipset until they can properly announce and advertise they are making an improvement to the car? Or should they just change their website to say "4G LTE" and all the new cars get the LTE upgrade.

I am not saying it doesn't suck to be the last person without an upgrade. It does. But Tesla didn't treat you poorly. You were unlucky. Tesla would be making more people unlucky if they held back improvements until they could announce them. And you still will anger people who buy the day before the announcement.

 

[ckessel]

I have VIN 1590 and have not seen the higher rate of charge, and I supercharge fairly often. I am sure Tesla won't leave the early adopters in the lurch. However, if this is an annual service contract thing I might get a little annoyed, as CT doesn't allow the service plans, so I don't have one. I'd hate to have to pay extra due to arcane legislation and innovative improvements to my beloved Model S.

I doubt it's an annual service item, or at least it isn't yet. I had mine done about a month ago and they didn't change my SC hardware then.

 

[Joel]

I'm a Signature owner, and I have yet to Super Charge. And I have yet to hear anything official from Tesla. However, this is the original official announcement from Tesla in May 2013. In the YouTube interview, Elon Musk clearly states, "previously people were spending upwards of 40, 45 minutes with the Super Charging Technology. Now, a stop at the Super Charging Station will only take 20 to 22 minutes."

More importantly, the copy reads, "The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes." I am of the mind that older cars (including Signature owners like me) will or did receive a "roll out" of the new technology. If we did not or can not, these statements are misleading because Elon's statements omit the information that previous owners who were spending 40, 45 minutes will continue to wait the 40, 45 minutes and the roll out does not apply to those customers.

TESLA DRAMATICALLY EXPANDS SUPERCHARGER NETWORK, DELIVERING CONVENIENT, FREE LONG DISTANCE DRIVING THROUGHOUT U.S. AND CANADA | Press Releases | Tesla Motors

In addition to the expansion of the Tesla Supercharger network itself, Tesla is improving the technology behind the Tesla Supercharger to dramatically decrease the amount of time it takes to charge Model S, cutting charging time in half relative to early trials of the system. The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.

 

[ckessel]

This is a fair point. But also look at the many of other changes Tesla did taking away things from later purchasers. They got black plastic inserts in their trunk, instead of chrome. They didn't get cup pinchers (puncturers). And the whole alacantara and fog lamp fiascos as well. So they have taken things away as well.

Very true, I totally get where you're coming from. I think it's a subjective call on where something like that crosses the line. Obviously my perspective on what crosses the line has some bias in it.

 

[jthompson]

I hope everyone here understand the car charges at a higher rate to start, then tapers off. As Tesla states, you get to 80% charge in the first 40 minutes, and 100% charge in the next 35 minutes (for a total of 75 minutes). Tesla also states "Charging the final 20% takes approximately the same amount of time as the first 80% due to a necessary decrease in charging current to help top-off cells. It's somewhat like turning down a faucet in order to fill a glass of water to the top without spilling."

I think there is a lot of misinformation spread on this forum - don't trust any information (in my opinion) unless it comes from Tesla.

 

[yobigd20]

However, if this is an annual service contract thing I might get a little annoyed, as CT doesn't allow the service plans, so I don't have one. I'd hate to have to pay extra due to arcane legislation and innovative improvements to my beloved Model S.

there is no difference in the service you get between paying $600 individually per service visit or prepaying the $1900 service. While the latter is cheaper because it is basically a wrapper around four $600 individual visits. It's not like they are getting anything free or extra with the $1900 service. Both service contracts are the same. In other words, you'll get the same "upgrades" with the $600 service visits that you will with the $1900 contract.

 

[Stoneymonster]

I think there is a lot of misinformation spread on this forum - don't trust any information (in my opinion) unless it comes from Tesla.

I don't even trust it then.

 

[Tupelo]

From the Tesla Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement:

“Vehicle Design. We reserve the right to change the design of any new vehicle, chassis, accessories, or parts at any time, without notice and without obligation to make the same or similar change upon the Vehicle, chassis, accessories or parts purchased by you under this Agreement…”

 

[brianman]

The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes.[/QUOTE

If true, it's somewhat curious that we're all forced into the "temporary death of Low" via an update but apparently "only a select few" get the joys of 120 kW charging. Seems a bit backwards.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is a lot of misinformation spread on this forum - don't trust any information (in my opinion) unless it comes from Tesla.

And sometimes distrust it when it comes from Tesla as well. Ok maybe "trust but verify, and then verify, and then empirically test, and then film it, and then verify again that the empirical data is supported going forward...".

 

[Stoneymonster]

From the Tesla Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement:

“Vehicle Design. We reserve the right to change the design of any new vehicle, chassis, accessories, or parts at any time, without notice and without obligation to make the same or similar change upon the Vehicle, chassis, accessories or parts purchased by you under this Agreement…”

Sure, no one is arguing (I don't think) that Tesla isn't within their rights, and even totally legally covered to do this. Whether it makes good customer relations or business sense, however, is a different matter.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

I have a 60, vin 3719 with 5.8. I did the I-5 superchargers to SF (Tejon, Harris R, Gilroy) over Thanksgiving. I maxed out at 90.

The vin cutoff isn't making sense. Any 60's out there supercharging higher than 90?

You can only charge at 1.5C max.

1.5*60KWh (for S60's) = 90KW max instantaneous power
1.5*85KWh (for all 85's) = 120KW max instantaneous power

- - - Updated - - -

I have VIN 2281 (P85), and I get 120kW (sometimes up to 125 kW) when I supercharge

That's impressive, given the max power output rating off all current US SuperChargers is 120kW or 90kW

 

[FredTMC]

You can only charge at 1.5C max.

1.5*60KWh (for S60's) = 90KW max instantaneous power
1.5*85KWh (for all 85's) = 120KW max instantaneous power

i know now this was probably asked already... But, have there been any confirmations of 60kwh cars charging at faster than 90kw?

tia

 

[Zythryn]

From the Tesla Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement:

“Vehicle Design. We reserve the right to change the design of any new vehicle, chassis, accessories, or parts at any time, without notice and without obligation to make the same or similar change upon the Vehicle, chassis, accessories or parts purchased by you under this Agreement…”

There is a large difference between what Is legal for Tesla to do and what is good customer relations.

We don't know with absolute certainty why this seems to be.
Most likely it is hardware in some of the early cars, but possibly it is something else.

I have no qualms about Tesla improving their product and that I won't always have the latest options.
I would love to have the parking sensors,and especially the winter heating package (-1 F right now where I am). However I understand these were later additions and don't regret for a moment being able to drive this wonder for many months prior to this being available.

However, the SCs are different. Tesla has always talked about them as being available to all 85kWh owners. When speaking of the 120kW chargers, they didn't refer to model year, there was no listing of SC rate options, or that some cars wouldn't be able to use the full rate.

Again, I am fine with whatever the answer is. Yes, I'll be disappointed if my Signature can't get the full benefit of the SCs, but I can live with it. I just would like to know what is going on.

 

[JohnQ]

The taper curve has not been adjusted for me in 5.8. My car still ramps down to 70 kw at 80 rated miles. I can assure everyone the difference is much more than 5 minutes.

Also, Tesla made a commitment to keep my car current with hardware upgrades in my service contract. I have every intention of holding them to their word.

That's interesting. So the tapering algorithm in 5.8 doesn't allow for a longer period of time at 90kW for the older models based on your reduction to 70kW so quickly. I presume you were at a 120kW charger. I wonder why that is. In that case, of course, the difference is far more significant.

 

[SFOTurtle]

I'll be hitting nearly all the I5 chargers next week so I'll know what a 60kWh can do with 5.8.

Please do report what you observe, although I'm not holding out much hope we 60 owners are going to see much difference with 5.8. I'm most interested to see if the taper rate will change at all? It would be nice to spend a few less minutes charging as we've been led to believe would be the case with the new SCs and the new firmware.

 

[heems]

...
However, the SCs are different. Tesla has always talked about them as being available to all 85kWh owners. When speaking of the 120kW chargers, they didn't refer to model year, there was no listing of SC rate options, or that some cars wouldn't be able to use the full rate ...

Not sure why the network is being held to a different standard than the end device. Again, if Tesla improves the charging network to support 150, 180, 200, 250kW I think it's unfair for the end device owner to expect free support/upgrade of hardware to match the improvement. When VZ/ATT started to improve their networks with FIOS/UVerse did all the old DSL users who used to max out at 1.5mbps have a sense of entitlement to get new modems and interfaces to the new network? Did they even get a notice about the change? No they did not.

Like I said, I won't defend Tesla's communication skills, but I am with ElSupreme - the change will happen at some point and someone will be the last person that didn't get it. Enjoy the time-value of your expenditure in the mean time until the next improvement comes along.