I was told I’d be ok by my local conservative MPP staff. Then they called a few days later to say sorry for your luck
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Are you dealing with Derek at the Ombudsman’s office? If so I’ll contact him directly to let him know that I was reassured over the phone by people at the MTO a day or two after the news release. I’d like that to be in my file.
I was reassured that my Tesla order was included in the EHVIP program.
I only placed my order on June 20th due to the reassurance from Ford that all contracts will be eligible if made prior to the program ending.
Congrats. I must say Fords are great cars as I have had very little issues with them in comparison to VWs.
jkirkwood001
Active Member
...and that is that. I do believe it is finally over. This indicates that it is a cabinet-level decision, meaning there’s nothing the Ombudsman can do.
Well, folks, we tried.
Just cancelled my order
Sorry to hear it, @Tertulian.
Samina and I have been in contact with 2 different law firms on the viability of a class action. She had feedback today that because Tesla granted refunds, that largely kills off the concept of potential damages so her firm wasn't willing to proceed. I had been in touch with a firm that specializes in class actions and while I was originally told it held some interest, I've been unable to generate any further responses and so with Samina's feedback, I won't bother pushing them further. I'm sure if it had legs they'd be calling me. Also was in contact with someone higher up at Tesla but nothing panned out there either.
This is not to say that you couldn't still proceed if you had deep pockets and were politically motivated but I think I'd rather buy a P100D And not to say it's 100% over for anyone still doing things in the background. Everyone has their own interpretation of it being "over" and I certainly don't seek to alter that.
Not really surprised these efforts have born little fruit however I think it was important to try and exhaust all possibilities and as a group I think we've done a great job of that. No harm in trying. It can be a learning exercise.
I hope everyone retains a long memory of this but stay positive. Don't let the system beat you up. Make Ontario good despite Ford.
I will patiently wait things out and see if the feds deliver anything. Interesting to see some snapping up remaining dealer stock. Not a big fan of that path in light of what's transpired but supportive from an environmental perspective and of course if you needed a vehicle then at least it wasn't an ICE.
Now, how to put more pressure on the feds
This is not to say that you couldn't still proceed if you had deep pockets and were politically motivated but I think I'd rather buy a P100D
And not to say it's 100% over for anyone still doing things in the background. Everyone has their own interpretation of it being "over" and I certainly don't seek to alter that.Not really surprised these efforts have born little fruit however I think it was important to try and exhaust all possibilities and as a group I think we've done a great job of that. No harm in trying. It can be a learning exercise.
I hope everyone retains a long memory of this but stay positive. Don't let the system beat you up. Make Ontario good despite Ford.
I will patiently wait things out and see if the feds deliver anything. Interesting to see some snapping up remaining dealer stock. Not a big fan of that path in light of what's transpired but supportive from an environmental perspective and of course if you needed a vehicle then at least it wasn't an ICE.
Now, how to put more pressure on the feds
It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Some of us can’t take delivery of the car with the uncertainty of the rebate. If I got called tomorrow and was told it’s now or never, I’m pretty sure my wife would decide “never.” To find out two weeks later that the MFO is complying with the Ombudsman’s directive would be heartbreaking.
I truly believe that the MFO/MTO are stalling.
jkirkwood001
Active Member
Nope, not yet. My tweet to the federal government yesterday:
Adds to my email to Catherine McKenna on July 12th:
Still no answer...
We are planning on still getting the car if delivered and plated before September 10. But if not then there's another obstacle we need to fight. I think long run the car is worth it for us due to hubby's driving distance daily. One step at a time I guess. Get me my car. Lol
That was my only concern as well, we also have a pickup truck so not as much of a concern. I’m hoping this will be a 1-2 year thing and can dive fully in with next car.
The price just couldn’t be beat
pcons
M3 AWD+
So, just to beat the dead horse a bit more about why I now believe not much will happen with the EV rebates: was just reading this story about people affected by the scrapping of the minimum income plan...
Hamilton woman can't afford rent, stuck in lease after province scraps basic income | CBC News
Its sad to put yourself in the shoes of a 22 year old mom with 3 kids, just signed a lease, and planned to go back to school to get a fresh start...only now to find out the program is scrapped and she can't afford the lease anymore and the landlord won't let her out of it....so breaking the lease will probably mean she loses money she doesn't have...
Compare the optics of that story with the EV rebates....my point is if the govt can get away with doing this to people who can't even afford to have their own apartment, they can certainly screw over 'rich tesla owners'....
Now, I'm sure there will be people out there who say the person in the story above made poor life choices, blah blah....but you have to admit it's easier to sympathize with the woman in this story than someone who could afford 60k for a car, but not 74k...plus that person was able to get a full refund and only misses out on owning a car, but financially is not affected (and is still able to afford a 60k car....)
This whole thing is really sickening that such short sighted decisions can be made with little oversight... I mean, I know we had few 'decent' options to vote this election, but I keep asking myself how this came to be....how can this be the 'best' Ontario had to offer come election time.....at least we aren't Americans :|
Hamilton woman can't afford rent, stuck in lease after province scraps basic income | CBC News
Its sad to put yourself in the shoes of a 22 year old mom with 3 kids, just signed a lease, and planned to go back to school to get a fresh start...only now to find out the program is scrapped and she can't afford the lease anymore and the landlord won't let her out of it....so breaking the lease will probably mean she loses money she doesn't have...
Compare the optics of that story with the EV rebates....my point is if the govt can get away with doing this to people who can't even afford to have their own apartment, they can certainly screw over 'rich tesla owners'....
Now, I'm sure there will be people out there who say the person in the story above made poor life choices, blah blah....but you have to admit it's easier to sympathize with the woman in this story than someone who could afford 60k for a car, but not 74k...plus that person was able to get a full refund and only misses out on owning a car, but financially is not affected (and is still able to afford a 60k car....)
This whole thing is really sickening that such short sighted decisions can be made with little oversight... I mean, I know we had few 'decent' options to vote this election, but I keep asking myself how this came to be....how can this be the 'best' Ontario had to offer come election time.....at least we aren't Americans :|
Yup and many people like the above plan but don't think about those caught in limbo.
I liked the plan to reduce Toronto City council and regional boards but think about the politicians who have spent time and money on campaigns. But who really sympathizes with politicians? To some extent it reflects our situation. Who really cares about Model 3 owners? No one who doesn't have a model 3 or one on order thinks this is an important issue.
If this was a similar plan that screwed over vw or diesel drivers for example would we accept their customers are just collateral damage for something good? I know previous to this happening to me I'd be pretty indifferent.
Agree...it sucks but not the end of the world....none of us were truly “wronged” just caught in the middle of politics which everyone will be at some point in their lifetime.
I hope in the meantime Tesla can get their *sugar* together a bit...clean up manufacturing...stop fighting with people on Twitter..get the business structure stabilized..improve communication and business practices....I still believe this type of vehicle is the future and whether they end up being the ones that benefit they will be the ones that forced everyone else’s hands to be better...hopefully incidents like this force their hand to be better as well
I'm not sure anyone could definitively answer that question. We're at the mercy of someone that's on record to remove everything. Could happen as soon as next Friday. I would think there would then be details on the EHVIP website.
I've send an email to: [email protected] asking if they are cancelling the program, that they provide sufficient period of time to allow people who've already paid to reserve an EV an opportunity to participate in the program who's process they have already begun.
Wish me luck with that.
Could you send me a private message so we can talk about your email to the Ministry?
Also had feedback earlier today from the law firm I had contacted and they said almost exactly the same thing as I had reported yesterday.
In essence, if you've been offered a refund by Tesla, you've suffered no loss and therefore have no case.
Also, given the likelihood it was party policy it becomes very difficult to challenge at pretty much any level, including the MTO though it would be great to see.
I've also written to Catherine McKenna on numerous occasions but no responses. Tried various tactics for a response but nothing.
Given all the PC sentiment out there, I bet Scheer wins in fall 2019 which pretty much kills any hopes of energy incentives given he called the Liberal carbon pricing plan a "cash grab". BTW, he also voted against a bill to protect rights for transgender Canadians and M-103, a motion to condemn Islamophobia.
So unless the liberals introduce something soon, it's not looking good for EV ownership in Ontario over the next 5 years unless you drive high km's or want to make a statement/personal choice regardless of economics.
Some feel the magic $100/kWh battery cost threshold will be here in a couple of years but I'm not so sure. Maybe at the manufacturer level but not the consumer so hard to tell how much of the savings will be passed on. Regardless, surely EV's will be cost competitive in 5 years so there may never be an incentive ever again.
If the liberals do introduce something before the fall 2019 election, the lesson learned here is to buy well in advance!
In essence, if you've been offered a refund by Tesla, you've suffered no loss and therefore have no case.
Also, given the likelihood it was party policy it becomes very difficult to challenge at pretty much any level, including the MTO though it would be great to see.
I've also written to Catherine McKenna on numerous occasions but no responses. Tried various tactics for a response but nothing.
Given all the PC sentiment out there, I bet Scheer wins in fall 2019 which pretty much kills any hopes of energy incentives given he called the Liberal carbon pricing plan a "cash grab". BTW, he also voted against a bill to protect rights for transgender Canadians and M-103, a motion to condemn Islamophobia.
So unless the liberals introduce something soon, it's not looking good for EV ownership in Ontario over the next 5 years unless you drive high km's or want to make a statement/personal choice regardless of economics.
Some feel the magic $100/kWh battery cost threshold will be here in a couple of years but I'm not so sure. Maybe at the manufacturer level but not the consumer so hard to tell how much of the savings will be passed on. Regardless, surely EV's will be cost competitive in 5 years so there may never be an incentive ever again.
If the liberals do introduce something before the fall 2019 election, the lesson learned here is to buy well in advance!
mknox
Well-Known Member
IMHO, Tesla does not seem interested in passing savings along. I payed somewhere around $85,000 for my fully loaded, but not "P" Model S 85 back in 2012 when I ordered it. That is Canadian dollars. You can't even get a stripped 75 for that kind of money now.
Another example: I was at a Tesla presentation a year or so ago where they talked about how the Gigafactory was going to help them keep Model 3 prices lower in Canada because it wouldn't be subject to import duty like the S and X are (due to the high content of Japanese cells in the battery). When I asked if the S and X prices would be lowered accordingly once they start using Gigafactory batteries, the answer I got was "ummm, no".
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
They need to make profit, lowering the MSRP when they're in the hole is unwise. There's no competition yet so lowering prices is not needed. People are already buying; again lowering prices not needed. They can throw Autopilot/FSD for free as an incentive if battery cost drops by that much - I highly doubt it also cause its a business and business wants money.
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