Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Tony_YYZ]

There's a ZERO chance Tesla will be selling the 3 in Ontario without first making sure it qualifies for whatever rebates are available for other vehicles.

That would make the most sense but at this time, there is no concrete evidence to state it currently qualifies. I'm waiting to see that before moving ahead with my invite to configure. Others have expressed a similar intent which is why I'm trying to get some solid answers for everyone.

 

[rypalmer]

That would make the most sense but at this time, there is no concrete evidence to state it currently qualifies. I'm waiting to see that before moving ahead with my invite to configure. Others have expressed a similar intent which is why I'm trying to get some solid answers for everyone.

As an EV, it meets all the criteria for the program to qualify. I don't know how it could be clearer.

The far bigger risk we face is in this program going away completely, or the rules changing - highly likely if governments change. But you'd face this risk no matter if the Model 3 was on the "eligible" list today or not.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

As an EV, it meets all the criteria for the program to qualify. I don't know how it could be clearer.

The far bigger risk we face is in this program going away completely, or the rules changing - highly likely if governments change. But you'd face this risk no matter if the Model 3 was on the "eligible" list today or not.

If if was completely clear then the car would be listed in the eligibility list. It's not, hence why this thread was started. You have your opinion on the matter and I have mine. I trust concrete facts versus what I think they should be.

Ordering now and taking delivery before the election is my goal so that I don't have to worry about the election.

 

[realtycoon]

Pretty needless, IMO. The paperwork will be done before the first 3 delivery, and the rebate will be available. Have patience.

I would agree with you EXCEPT, we are dealing with the Ontario Government here. They aren't the most responsive, or easiest to deal with and the simplest of things gets lost in months of Bureaucracy and process, with no one who takes any ownership. You really can't make any assumptions until it's official when the Ontario Government is involved. Plus throw in the fact it's an election year and all bets are off.

I'm with the OP here, I would assume NO rebate until it's official from the Ontario Government folks.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

**UPDATE**

I spoke with Dodi at the Ministry of Finance just now. She really couldn't confirm if Tesla has actually put in their application for the Model 3. I kept asking if she could check on the status of it, she said no. I conveyed my concerns about ordering before seeing it posted and told her the Tesla ordering process makes mention of the $14k rebate. She said they shouldn't be saying anything about a rebate at this point.

I also mentioned that BC and QC have already updated their lists which should indicate Tesla would have applied to all EV incentive programs already. She did not agree that is the case. In the end, they provided no useful information.

 

[Jgdixon]

I know that Tesla has applied for the rebate and is waiting for a response.
The Ministry of Finance only administers it. The MTO is the department that approves the vehicle that it has been applied for.
I can also confirm that the 75K cap is on the base model by trim so the Model 3 is well under the limit.
In addition Tesla no longer submits the form it is up to the customer after delivery.

 

[dwharrison]

**UPDATE**

I spoke with Dodi at the Ministry of Finance just now. She really couldn't confirm if Tesla has actually put in their application for the Model 3. I kept asking if she could check on the status of it, she said no. I conveyed my concerns about ordering before seeing it posted and told her the Tesla ordering process makes mention of the $14k rebate. She said they shouldn't be saying anything about a rebate at this point.

I also mentioned that BC and QC have already updated their lists which should indicate Tesla would have applied to all EV incentive programs already. She did not agree that is the case. In the end, they provided no useful information.

I'm guessing a bit here, but I suspect that privacy laws prevent them from even stating that Tesla has or has not made a request.

 

[johndorian]

I know that Tesla has applied for the rebate and is waiting for a response.
The Ministry of Finance only administers it. The MTO is the department that approves the vehicle that it has been applied for.
I can also confirm that the 75K cap is on the base model by trim so the Model 3 is well under the limit.
In addition Tesla no longer submits the form it is up to the customer after delivery.

Any idea why Tesla doesn't do it on behalf of the customer? They get paid directly so I don't really see why they would want to inconvenience us.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

**UPDATE 2**

I spoke with the Ministry of Transportation. Again, another dead end. They had never heard of the Model 3 and the only vehicles showing up in the system the person had access to only had details about the S & X. At this point, I just e-mailed [email protected] as my next option.

The person I spoke to at the MoT had no insight into how to check a manufacturers applications to see where it stands. I'm running out of options. I knew this wasn't going to be easy but it just seems nobody on either side knows what is going on.

 

[dwharrison]

One note I just found, at Ontario EHVIP Rebate for the Model 3 - Information Thread

If you are an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) and you wish to have your vehicle be eligible for an EHVIP incentive, you must complete and submit the EHVIP New Eligible Vehicle Form at least 8 weeks before the vehicle will be eligible for green plates and an EHVIP incentive.

Given that the program was just recently changed, I wonder if Tesla's application got reset so that it could be processed again against the new rules.

 

[dwharrison]

Any idea why Tesla doesn't do it on behalf of the customer? They get paid directly so I don't really see why they would want to inconvenience us.

In general the rebate goes to the purchaser, not the company. Some manufacturers/dealers are prepared to have you sign the rebate over to them, with them providing it immediately as part of the financing. Of course, this leaves them floating the rebate amount until they get paid. I've not heard of Tesla doing that, though.

 

[wayner]

Any idea why Tesla doesn't do it on behalf of the customer? They get paid directly so I don't really see why they would want to inconvenience us.

They have done it this way for years, at least since I got my car 3.5 years ago. The speculation is that they don't want to be on the hook of waiting for the cash from the government. They have a large market cap but you could argue that they are one of the least profitable companies ever or at least with the worst cashflow.

 

[RiverBrick]

In general the rebate goes to the purchaser, not the company. Some manufacturers/dealers are prepared to have you sign the rebate over to them, with them providing it immediately as part of the financing. Of course, this leaves them floating the rebate amount until they get paid. I've not heard of Tesla doing that, though.

Barring a recent change, Tesla credits the rebate in Quebec on new cars. . Maybe it's because the Quebec government apparently doesn't take as long as Ontario's to reimbuse them.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

**UPDATE 3**

I spoke to someone at a local showroom today, I will not reveal his/her identity at this time. I mentioned in detail the issues we are facing. He/She said they are aware and do not have much more info to offer. I asked him/her what would happen if I placed my order today seeing that the order process mentions the $14k rebate as applicable and that come delivery there is no applicable rebate. Can I refuse delivery and reclaim my deposit on these grounds?

He/She checked with their manager and came back saying that I should screenshot my order screen where it shows the rebate as being applicable and if such a situation were to happen then I could refuse the delivery and would be refunded my deposit. I then asked for this in writing. He/She said they will be looking for official documentation on this matter and would get back to me soon.

I will follow up by EOD tomorrow if I don't hear back.

 

[Bluewish]

The contact number provided on the EHVIP page says to call the Ministry of Finance.

"Note: A vehicle with a model year older than those listed below would be eligible for an incentive, provided the vehicle is new. If you have any questions regarding a vehicle’s eligibility please contact the Ministry of Finance by Phone: 1 (866) 668-8297 or Fax: (905) 433-5939."

Oh dear! I think we are taking about 2 different animals here.

If you are an EV owner and you want to find out if your (previous model year/ current year...) is eligible for an incentive, then you call MOF. Someone from MOF will review the entire list (from Day 1 of the incentive program) vs. your purchase date.... to tell you if you are or you aren't. MOF has no access to the vehicle that was never been on the list. Got it?

If you are vehicle manufacturer that want to apply for your vehicle to be on incentive list, you apply through MTO.
Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Identification

So, we all know that model 3 is never on the list, who do you call now? Having said that, you may not able to get any information from MTO because it is confidential if Tesla has made the application or not. Only Tesla HO is able to tell you if they have done it and when they have done it.

One more important point: Although model 3 is clearly qualified for the incentive but the application needs to be approved (someone signs the approval paper) and that person (someone) may not willing to sign anything during this election period.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Oh dear! I think we are taking about 2 different animals here.

If you are an EV owner and you want to find out if your (previous model year/ current year...) is eligible for an incentive, then you call MOF. Someone from MOF will review the entire list (from Day 1 of the incentive program) vs. your purchase date.... to tell you if you are or you aren't. MOF has no access to the vehicle that was never been on the list. Got it?

If you are vehicle manufacturer that want to apply for your vehicle to be on incentive list, you apply through MTO.
Ontario Central Forms Repository - Form Identification

So, we all know that model 3 is never on the list, who do you call now? Having said that, you may not able to get any information from MTO because it is confidential if Tesla has made the application or not. Only Tesla HO is able to tell you if they have done it and when they have done it.

One more important point: Although model 3 is clearly qualified for the incentive but the application needs to be approved (someone signs the approval paper) and that person (someone) may not willing to sign anything during this election period.

If you see my previous replies in this thread, I have already moved on from the MoF. I spoke to MoT already and then Tesla again.

The province cannot halt daily operations due to elections. That's not how this works. If it were, the changes made on March 9th would not have happened. As it stands it is business as usual until the current party in power loses.

 

[dwharrison]

One more important point: Although model 3 is clearly qualified for the incentive but the application needs to be approved (someone signs the approval paper) and that person (someone) may not willing to sign anything during this election period.

Quick point: we're not in an election period. We are in the interminable lead-up to the actual election period, which will start in early May when the Premier visits the Lieutenant-Governor and recommends that an election be called for June 7 (or fails to make that visit with the result that the LG will follow the fixed election date law, with the same end result).

Government should be business-as-usual during the pre-writ period. Even during the campaign, adding a new EV to the list following the existing rules shouldn't be an issue; what shouldn't happen during that period is changing the rules.

 

[dwharrison]

The province cannot halt daily operations due to elections. That's not how this works. If it were, the changes made on March 9th would not have happened. As it stands it is business as usual until the current party in power loses.

Correct. When the writs drop, the government of the day follows the "caretaker convention", which means they do business as usual and nothing else (no spending announcements, for example), other than dealing with any emergency that may occur. In an emergency situation, they are obliged to consult with the other parties before taking action.

I can't imagine how following existing rules for adding new cars would violate the caretaker convention, particularly since it would be done by the public service, not by the elected government.

 

[Bluewish]

Quick point: we're not in an election period. We are in the interminable lead-up to the actual election period, which will start in early May when the Premier visits the Lieutenant-Governor and recommends that an election be called for June 7 (or fails to make that visit with the result that the LG will follow the fixed election date law, with the same end result).

Government should be business-as-usual during the pre-writ period. Even during the campaign, adding a new EV to the list following the existing rules shouldn't be an issue; what shouldn't happen during that period is changing the rules.

WRIT period for government business is from Mar - Sept if you believe me. A list of issues/ projects was submitted from all the Ministries to Queen Park for review/ receiving approval in Jan/ Feb already, so government staffs can keep working on their projects during election. Non-urgent/ emergency project related to public announcement that pop up during Mar - Sept may be hold up.

Anyway, I am waiting for good news from you.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

WRIT period for government business is from Mar - Sept if you believe me. A list of issues/ projects was submitted from all the Ministries to Queen Park for review/ receiving approval in Jan/ Feb already, so government staffs can keep working on their projects during election. Non-urgent/ emergency project related to public announcement that pop up during Mar - Sept may be hold up.

Anyway, I am waiting for good news from you.

If what you state is true, that would mean EHVIP operations are still happening since they recently made changes on a much grander scale than just adding a new eligible vehicle per the March 9th changes.