Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[mknox]

As an EV, it meets all the criteria for the program to qualify. I don't know how it could be clearer..

If if was completely clear then the car would be listed in the eligibility list. It's not, hence why this thread was started.

A co-worker of my wife ordered a 2017 eGolf which was on the list. By the time it arrived, it was a 2018 eGolf which was not on the list. The dealer was unable to process the rebate and apply the $14,000 to her bill. She had to pay the full amount and follow up and apply for the rebate herself. I realize Tesla does not apply the rebate at the time of sale, but just wanted to point out that there is something to this whole "needs to be on the list" argument.

 

[eros]

**UPDATE 3**

I spoke to someone at a local showroom today, I will not reveal his/her identity at this time. I mentioned in detail the issues we are facing. He/She said they are aware and do not have much more info to offer. I asked him/her what would happen if I placed my order today seeing that the order process mentions the $14k rebate as applicable and that come delivery there is no applicable rebate. Can I refuse delivery and reclaim my deposit on these grounds?

He/She checked with their manager and came back saying that I should screenshot my order screen where it shows the rebate as being applicable and if such a situation were to happen then I could refuse the delivery and would be refunded my deposit. I then asked for this in writing. He/She said they will be looking for official documentation on this matter and would get back to me soon.

I will follow up by EOD tomorrow if I don't hear back.

Is it possible to add the screenshot here. I did not take a screenshot when I was ordering.

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Is it possible to add the screenshot here. I did not take a screenshot when I was ordering.

 

[dwharrison]

WRIT period for government business is from Mar - Sept if you believe me. A list of issues/ projects was submitted from all the Ministries to Queen Park for review/ receiving approval in Jan/ Feb already, so government staffs can keep working on their projects during election. Non-urgent/ emergency project related to public announcement that pop up during Mar - Sept may be hold up.
.

I can’t think of any case where adding new cars to the list, based on existing rules, would count as a “project/issues” needing approval - though I’d be interested to see how.

 

[ZooSean]

I don’t think that Tesla applies the eligibility yet.

 

[Bluewish]

I can’t think of any case where adding new cars to the list, based on existing rules, would count as a “project/issues” needing approval - though I’d be interested to see how.

Unfortunately, anything that goes to public needs review and approval even just stating a fact. Model 3 application may be processed and accepted by government staffs but it cannot be listed on the website until approved.

 

[Munch]

WRIT period for government business is from Mar - Sept if you believe me. A list of issues/ projects was submitted from all the Ministries to Queen Park for review/ receiving approval in Jan/ Feb already, so government staffs can keep working on their projects during election. Non-urgent/ emergency project related to public announcement that pop up during Mar - Sept may be hold up.

Anyway, I am waiting for good news from you.

Does this also mean that if PCs are elected, the rebate may stand until September?

 

[Bluewish]

Does this also mean that if PCs are elected, the rebate may stand until September?

May be or may be not. Government (Queen Park) is holding up approval because they now have other priority but it doesn't mean that they cannot approve anything between Mar - Sept. They are likely can do "whatever they want". After election, the new party may be too busy with organizing the new government and appointing new ministers, so they don't have time to review/ approve other things until later but the new government can also shut down the EV program immediately if they want.

 

[Doctor X]

I already ordered our Model 3 before knowing about this issue. I called Tesla today and they confirmed that their application was made to the MTO. I called both the Ministry of Finance and the MTO and got nowhere. I decided to write a letter to my MPP and I am copying it below. I urge everyone to copy and paste (and edit as you see fit) and send it to your MPP’s office. A flood of such requests in a pre-election period might light a fire under the MTO to move things along. Anything we can do as citizens we should do! Here is the text, feel free to copy and paste and send to your elected officials, Thanks!

“Dear INSERT NAME OF YOUR MPP HERE.
We just ordered an Electric Vehicle (a 2018 Tesla Model 3). This is the “cheaper” Tesla built for the masses with a starting price of 45,600$ Canadian. It should arrive in 4 to 8 weeks. It meets all the criteria of eligibility of the MTO for the EV rebate. Yet it does not appear on the list of eligible vehicles on the MTO site. The Manufacturer (Tesla Motors Canada) confirmed that their application for this vehicle’s eligibility has been submitted to the MTO for some time now. Yet when I call both the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Transportation I get no answers as to why it is not on the list. At best, I was told “it should”. I am counting on this rebate to make this investment in a clean energy mode of transportation, just like any other EV purchaser in the Province of Ontario. You may or may not know that the 2018 Tesla Model 3 in question already appears on both the British Columbia and the Quebec list of eligible EV vehicles to receive a rebate. So what is the holdup in Ontario? I would greatly appreciate if you could look into this for me and get back to me as soon a possible.
Thank you, “

 

[Tony_YYZ]

I already ordered our Model 3 before knowing about this issue. I called Tesla today and they confirmed that their application was made to the MTO. I called both the Ministry of Finance and the MTO and got nowhere. I decided to write a letter to my MPP and I am copying it below. I urge everyone to copy and paste (and edit as you see fit) and send it to your MPP’s office. A flood of such requests in a pre-election period might light a fire under the MTO to move things along. Anything we can do as citizens we should do! Here is the text, feel free to copy and paste and send to your elected officials, Thanks!

“Dear INSERT NAME OF YOUR MPP HERE.
We just ordered an Electric Vehicle (a 2018 Tesla Model 3). This is the “cheaper” Tesla built for the masses with a starting price of 45,600$ Canadian. It should arrive in 4 to 8 weeks. It meets all the criteria of eligibility of the MTO for the EV rebate. Yet it does not appear on the list of eligible vehicles on the MTO site. The Manufacturer (Tesla Motors Canada) confirmed that their application for this vehicle’s eligibility has been submitted to the MTO for some time now. Yet when I call both the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Transportation I get no answers as to why it is not on the list. At best, I was told “it should”. I am counting on this rebate to make this investment in a clean energy mode of transportation, just like any other EV purchaser in the Province of Ontario. You may or may not know that the 2018 Tesla Model 3 in question already appears on both the British Columbia and the Quebec list of eligible EV vehicles to receive a rebate. So what is the holdup in Ontario? I would greatly appreciate if you could look into this for me and get back to me as soon a possible.
Thank you, “

Done!

 

[Doctor X]

While I’m at it, I sent the same message to the Premier’s office, Kathleen Wynne. I was pretty easy, just google her constituency office and sending a message is a very few clicks, then copy and paste the body of the text. And voila! I encourage every Ontario Tesla reservation holder to do this.
Thanks.

 

[Doctor X]

Way to go Tony_YYZ !
Who else?
Do it for all of us please!

 

[Tony_YYZ]

While I’m at it, I sent the same message to the Premier’s office, Kathleen Wynne. I was pretty easy, just google her constituency office and sending a message is a very few clicks, then copy and paste the body of the text. And voila! I encourage every Ontario Tesla reservation holder to do this.
Thanks.

Done as well!

 

[McFlurri]

damn... this car is really pricey for the "affordable EV" category.

After the 13% tax and taking off the $3200 down payment for an 84 month loan at 3.99%...

Its $78,160 ------- or ------- $1,067.99/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is $11,551.51 effectively raising your total purchase price to $92,911.51 (before the $3200 deposit)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (If it's still around come the results of the provincial June election)

All i can say is.... ouch!

 

[Tony_YYZ]

damn... this car is really pricey for the "affordable EV" category.

After the 13% tax and taking off the $3200 down payment for an 84 month loan at 3.99%...

Its $78,160 ------- or ------- $1,067.99/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is $11,551.51 effectively raising your total purchase price to $92,911.51 (before the $3200 deposit)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (If it's still around come the results of the provincial June election)

All i can say is.... ouch!

That's an....interesting way to look at it. Putting next to nothing down and then financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea in my opinion.

 

[jkirkwood001]

There's a ZERO chance Tesla will be selling the 3 in Ontario without first making sure it qualifies for whatever rebates are available for other vehicles.

Another declaration of "fact" that is really an opinion. You're guessing. Stop being arrogant, @rypalmer, and respect that some people don't want to risk $14,000 on lots of unknowns - Ontario bureaucracy performing efficiently, policy change, election interruption, etc. We all know it qualifies, but it's not on the list (yet), so no rebate (yet).

 

[McFlurri]

That's an....interesting way to look at it. Putting next to nothing down and then financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea in my opinion.

absolutely. I totally agree... to a point though.

But for those who may not know the true total cost... well.. there it is.

However, lets say you put $20,000 plus the $3200 you have to pay at the time of order (which I would think most people believe is a reasonable/ sizable amount of $ for a down payment. Lets do the math for the same 84 month Loan at 3.99%;

Its $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $794.71/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is still $8,595.65 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $66,755.65

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (I wont include the rebate in these numbers because Tesla will not apply the rebate to the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore the $ will have to come from somewhere else. ie. another short term loan in which you have to pay interest on)

Again there is no guarantee the rebate will be here after the election so these calculations still apply to everyone.

More in the reasonable(ish) monthly payment realm.... However, because you bring up the point of "financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea", which I totally agree... Lets do what most people should do when financing ANY car and have a 60 month loan and see if another financial institution will offer a more reasonable rate of 2.99%.

With the same down payment as before effectively $23,200

Its still $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $1,044.80/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is now $4, 528.04 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $62,688.04 (So you save A LOT on interest, but your monthly payments are much higher)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (see above reasoning)

HOWEVER...

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

 

[jkirkwood001]

Suggest readers try out the International Tesla Cost Estimator to compare total costs for different financing scenarios.

absolutely. I totally agree... to a point though.

But for those who may not know the true total cost... well.. there it is.

However, lets say you put $20,000 plus the $3200 you have to pay at the time of order (which I would think most people believe is a reasonable/ sizable amount of $ for a down payment. Lets do the math for the same 84 month Loan at 3.99%;

Its $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $794.71/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is still $8,595.65 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $66,755.65

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (I wont include the rebate in these numbers because Tesla will not apply the rebate to the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore the $ will have to come from somewhere else. ie. another short term loan in which you have to pay interest on)

Again there is no guarantee the rebate will be here after the election so these calculations still apply to everyone.

More in the reasonable(ish) monthly payment realm.... However, because you bring up the point of "financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea", which I totally agree... Lets do what most people should do when financing ANY car and have a 60 month loan and see if another financial institution will offer a more reasonable rate of 2.99%.

With the same down payment as before effectively $23,200

Its still $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $1,044.80/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is now $4, 528.04 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $62,688.04 (So you save A LOT on interest, but your monthly payments are much higher)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (see above reasoning)

HOWEVER...

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

 

[Tony_YYZ]

absolutely. I totally agree... to a point though.

But for those who may not know the true total cost... well.. there it is.

However, lets say you put $20,000 plus the $3200 you have to pay at the time of order (which I would think most people believe is a reasonable/ sizable amount of $ for a down payment. Lets do the math for the same 84 month Loan at 3.99%;

Its $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $794.71/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is still $8,595.65 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $66,755.65

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (I wont include the rebate in these numbers because Tesla will not apply the rebate to the purchase price of the vehicle and therefore the $ will have to come from somewhere else. ie. another short term loan in which you have to pay interest on)

Again there is no guarantee the rebate will be here after the election so these calculations still apply to everyone.

More in the reasonable(ish) monthly payment realm.... However, because you bring up the point of "financing almost the entire car over 84 months at 3.90% is a bad financial idea", which I totally agree... Lets do what most people should do when financing ANY car and have a 60 month loan and see if another financial institution will offer a more reasonable rate of 2.99%.

With the same down payment as before effectively $23,200

Its still $58,160/incl 13% tax ------- or ------- $1,044.80/month. Plus insurance and electricity.

But! The cost of the loan is now $4, 528.04 effectively raising your total FINANCE price to $62,688.04 (So you save A LOT on interest, but your monthly payments are much higher)

This is of course without the $14,000 rebate. (see above reasoning)

HOWEVER...

If you invested that $20,000 into a mutual fund or whatever... you could (theoretically) actually make MORE than 2.99%. So it's a worse idea financially to put that $20,000 into the vehicle (which is also a depreciating asset and locks in your potential earning at 2.99% less the depreciating value of the asset)

I understand what you're saying but that would apply to pretty much any car or any large purchase really.

I was planning on putting quite a bit down and financing some of it which would result in a smaller monthly payment. My insurance would be cheaper and electricity is cheaper than gas when charging at home.

It is definitely a luxury purchase akin to buying a loaded BMW 340i.

 

[RiverBrick]

damn... this car is really pricey for the "affordable EV" category.

Did people really think the loaded versions of the car would be cheap?

Do the math with the SR version and $8,000 in options. After rebate and fuel savings it shouldn't be more expensive than a BMW 328, Toyota Camry, or a loaded Civic. Tons of people drive those cars (whether they can afford them or not is another story.)