Ontario EV Rebates Cancelled July 11, 2018

[Asharpe]

For a recent reference point, take a look at prices for used 2016/17 Model S/X as those qualified for $14k incentive. EHVIP changed in March 2018 to exclude S/X.

That's tough, and I knew you'd say that (this IS a tesla forum). You're talking 10% of the value vs. 30% of the value.

 

[Ludatik]

That's tough, and I knew you'd say that (this IS a tesla forum). You're talking 10% of the value vs. 30% of the value.

Understood. You could also look at used Cayenne Hybrid or BMW i8 prices lol.

I suggested looking at 2016/17 S/X since there's actually some data out there to analyze. Otherwise we're making educated guesses.

 

[PAWilson]

I sent an email to our new Ontario Minister of Finance.
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])

Feel free to use it, obviously editing down to your specific concerns / questions.

Good Afternoon Hon Victor Fedeli

First, I want to congratulate you, Doug Ford and the PC Party for your overwhelming win in the Provincial election. I voted PC and I voted for the late Rob Ford when he ran for Mayor of Toronto and also supported the Ford Party when I lived in Etobicoke.

The reason for my email is for clarity and direction on the Electric Vehicle Incentive Program. I am aware of your Party’s election promise and the planned wind down of said program.

I confirmed an order agreement on June 26, 2018 for a purchase of an electric vehicle – Model 3 LR AWD. The specific trim of this vehicle is not on the current eligible list. The list currently states only the Model 3 LR RWD but the list was last updated in March 2018.

My main question is twofold:

1. Given the LR AWD trim is almost identical to the current eligible RWD trim – will it be granted eligibility status for the rebate? The trim is within the current guidelines of the program. I would also add that the AWD is a safer vehicle for the winter conditions in Ontario.

2. If, for some reason, it is decided this trim should not be added, I would like to know if I change my current order (made on June 26, 2018) to the eligible RWD trim would I then be allowed to claim the rebate?

I, in good faith, placed this order with the expectation that the AWD trim meets the current eligibility guidelines and I also ensured I ordered while the current program was in effect.

I wish you and the PC Party much success in moving Ontario forward.

I thank you in advance for taking the time to read my message and I look forward to a positive reply in due course.


Kind Regards

 

[Amendale]

Ontario qualifies previously approved EVC grants - REMI Network

Seems the rules for commercial car chargers are honouring orders up to July 3rd (cap-and-trade cancellation announcement date) with completion of work deadline of November 12th. Sign of things to come for the EHVIP?

 

[Buggle]

Ontario qualifies previously approved EVC grants - REMI Network

Seems the rules for commercial car chargers are honouring orders up to July 3rd (cap-and-trade cancellation announcement date) with completion of work deadline of November 12th. Sign of things to come for the EHVIP?

I wouldn't read too much into that. The commercial charger rebate fund was already exhausted before Ford was elected, so it's in a bit of a different situation than the other two rebate funds.

 

[M109Rider]

I sent an email to our new Ontario Minister of Finance.
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])

Feel free to use it, obviously editing down to your specific concerns / questions.

Good Afternoon Hon Victor Fedeli

First, I want to congratulate you, Doug Ford and the PC Party for your overwhelming win in the Provincial election. I voted PC and I voted for the late Rob Ford when he ran for Mayor of Toronto and also supported the Ford Party when I lived in Etobicoke.

The reason for my email is for clarity and direction on the Electric Vehicle Incentive Program. I am aware of your Party’s election promise and the planned wind down of said program.

I confirmed an order agreement on June 26, 2018 for a purchase of an electric vehicle – Model 3 LR AWD. The specific trim of this vehicle is not on the current eligible list. The list currently states only the Model 3 LR RWD but the list was last updated in March 2018.

My main question is twofold:

1. Given the LR AWD trim is almost identical to the current eligible RWD trim – will it be granted eligibility status for the rebate? The trim is within the current guidelines of the program. I would also add that the AWD is a safer vehicle for the winter conditions in Ontario.

2. If, for some reason, it is decided this trim should not be added, I would like to know if I change my current order (made on June 26, 2018) to the eligible RWD trim would I then be allowed to claim the rebate?

I, in good faith, placed this order with the expectation that the AWD trim meets the current eligibility guidelines and I also ensured I ordered while the current program was in effect.

I wish you and the PC Party much success in moving Ontario forward.

I thank you in advance for taking the time to read my message and I look forward to a positive reply in due course.


Kind Regards

I look forward to hearing their response. !
Thanks.

 

[Ludatik]

I wouldn't read too much into that. The commercial charger rebate fund was already exhausted before Ford was elected, so it's in a bit of a different situation than the other two rebate funds.

I think it's pretty relevant. The news release talks about the new government drawing a line in the sand for those that want to qualify for WEVCIP.

"Ontario’s new provincial government has now added some extra qualifications for proponents trying to collect previously approved EVC grants. Owners/managers who moved quickly on the former government’s promise will be in position to receive the funds, while those who have not yet obtained the equipment or signed a contract to authorize the investment will be out of luck.

Approved WEVCIP recipients have been informed they will have to “provide evidence acceptable to the Ministry” of receipts or purchase orders made no later than July 3, which must be submitted to Ministry by the end of the day on July 11. Installation of the chargers and a follow-up report are then required no later than November 12, 2018.

“If any of the above requirements are not met, you will no longer be eligible to receive WEVCIP funds despite your receipt of the Notification of Approval letter,” yesterday’s notice warns. “For those who did not receive a Notification of Approval letter, this letter is meant to notify you of the cancellation of the WEVCIP program.”

 

[pcons]

This is going to sound like heresy, but considering the current situation...

1. I've been waiting patiently for my Model 3, in my preferred configuration, since the first possible minute of placing an order.
2. Since then, I've been driving my very first car, a 2006 Chevy Cobalt, which I bought from an 89 year old in 2012. I was hoping to continue to put up with it, stringing me along until my Model 3 is ready. It is currently in such disrepair my mechanic refused to repair it, the rear axle requires a full replacement.
3. Now that I've waited so long, I'm completely out of the running for the EHVIP on ANY car I would buy.
4. I hate buying gas. Hate. Every time.
5. I feel I'm forced into a corner, and after weighing all the options, I'm looking at a used 2017 Premier Volt, at $28k. This will allow me to commute each day without buying gas. Hopefully the heavy depreciation is already passed on a 2017 model year, and it isn't too hard on me in 1 to 3 years' time (unknown how long I'll decide to keep it, perhaps even deferring a Tesla order for a few years)

Question: What does the ending of EHVIP mean for used vehicle markets in Ontario? How will the landscape change in the short term?

Cost is an issue for me. I can't possibly justify a $70k vehicle where I was looking for something at $50k. The rebate was a nice touch, but not a be-all end-all situation. I still need Tesla to come through with their promised configuration and pricing, and will buy with or without an incentive.

Hey Asharpe, if you are interested....when I pick up my model 3 I will be either trading in or selling privately my 2017 Volt Premiere. I made up my mind that rebate or no I wanted the Model 3, so ordered. If I do end up getting the rebate (which I know is unlikely), I may end up just putting that money back into EAP or something like that...I've already convinced myself that money is gone, so if it comes by my way then I'll consider it a bonus.

To be honest, the volt is a great car so I would recommend it...the Model 3 is my mid life crisis gift to myself

 

[Amandeep]

Shake hands ... at least I wasn't the only one who looks silly

Now, we do look silly :-(

 

[jkirkwood001]

You have to consider that your polled audience may not be representative of the public at large.

In Norway, incentives brings the cost of an EV in line with an ICE vehicle. The target of 50,000 electric cars on Norwegian roads was reached on 20 April 2015, more than two years earlier than expected.

Christina Bu is head of the Norwegian Electric Vehicle Association, which advocates for both consumers and manufacturers. “People aren’t so green that they want to pay a lot extra to buy an electric,” she said. The Norwegian system works, Ms. Bu said, because “it’s constructed to make the least-polluting cars the most attractive.”

Other analyses have shown that the TCO of a Model S is lower than any other car. I think a Nissan came close. I'm not sure the average car buyer has an appreciation of that. I expect the Model 3 will beat it.

USA EV sales data for first half of 2018 shows the Model 3 ahead of the Prius Prime and also more than the Volt and Bolt combined.

I think if you polled the middle class you'd find a higher % are price sensitive and are often not looking at TCO but initial purchase/loan costs and then narrowing down from there based on features and fuel efficiency. With a higher base cost (without incentive) an EV probably isn't even on the radar for many. Also, a larger number of middle class buyers will be single vehicle families that may not want an EV as their sole vehicle. Also, in Norway it was found that some 2nd vehicle EV buyers had shifted their travel mode to EV from buses and trains. (a negative impact of too great an incentive)

I think those are all good points.

This forum's audience hopes, perhaps, that a) Tesla's Model 3 is more coveted than dorky past EVs, so sticker price is less of a disincentive, b) more affordable, non-sedans are in the way to meet the interest of less wealthy, and c) 450,000 reservationists can't be wrong. Time will tell, eh? fingers-crossed.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, @felixculpas.

 

[felixculpas]

For those hoping the Model 3 AWD might qualify for EHVIP rebates (presuming that "winds-down" slowly), I'm told the process is that Tesla had to wait for a batch of VIN's for the AWD models which were then submitted to the Ministry. So it's up to those that run the program as to whether they will add it to the list or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting on approval (at a higher than usual level) to do so given the program is ending. In the meantime, when you inquire, you get the run-around from MTO and the Ford camp. Perhaps their intent is to figure this out when they are back in session starting July 11 and we'll hear something the following week. If we don't, perhaps a well drafted / copied message to them from us all (who are in this boat) might prompt some action.

 

[PAWilson]

For those hoping the Model 3 AWD might qualify for EHVIP rebates (presuming that "winds-down" slowly), I'm told the process is that Tesla had to wait for a batch of VIN's for the AWD models which were then submitted to the Ministry. So it's up to those that run the program as to whether they will add it to the list or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting on approval (at a higher than usual level) to do so given the program is ending. In the meantime, when you inquire, you get the run-around from MTO and the Ford camp. Perhaps their intent is to figure this out when they are back in session starting July 11 and we'll hear something the following week. If we don't, perhaps a well drafted / copied message to them from us all (who are in this boat) might prompt some action.

Feel free to use any part of my email message a few posts above.
Doug Ford Premier email address:
[email protected]

 

[tombar]

I sent an email to our new Ontario Minister of Finance.
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])
Hon Vic Fedeli ([email protected])

Feel free to use it, obviously editing down to your specific concerns / questions.

Good Afternoon Hon Victor Fedeli

First, I want to congratulate you, Doug Ford and the PC Party for your overwhelming win in the Provincial election. I voted PC and I voted for the late Rob Ford when he ran for Mayor of Toronto and also supported the Ford Party when I lived in Etobicoke.

The reason for my email is for clarity and direction on the Electric Vehicle Incentive Program. I am aware of your Party’s election promise and the planned wind down of said program.

I confirmed an order agreement on June 26, 2018 for a purchase of an electric vehicle – Model 3 LR AWD. The specific trim of this vehicle is not on the current eligible list. The list currently states only the Model 3 LR RWD but the list was last updated in March 2018.

My main question is twofold:

1. Given the LR AWD trim is almost identical to the current eligible RWD trim – will it be granted eligibility status for the rebate? The trim is within the current guidelines of the program. I would also add that the AWD is a safer vehicle for the winter conditions in Ontario.

2. If, for some reason, it is decided this trim should not be added, I would like to know if I change my current order (made on June 26, 2018) to the eligible RWD trim would I then be allowed to claim the rebate?

I, in good faith, placed this order with the expectation that the AWD trim meets the current eligibility guidelines and I also ensured I ordered while the current program was in effect.

I wish you and the PC Party much success in moving Ontario forward.

I thank you in advance for taking the time to read my message and I look forward to a positive reply in due course.


Kind Regards

I believe its the ministry of transport evaluate if a vehicle qualifies for rebate and how much, FInance make the payments.

 

[PAWilson]

I believe its the ministry of transport evaluate if a vehicle qualifies for rebate and how much, FInance make the payments.

I believe that is true but the website states "If you have any questions regarding a vehicle’s eligibility please contact the Ministry of Finance".
Also, the Electric Vehicle (MOF) <[email protected]> email contact is part of Finance.
In addition I sent a similar email to the Premier - [email protected]
As you probably already know, here is the contact info for the Minister of Transportation - [email protected]
Hon John Yakabuski email: [email protected]
I sent other emails there.
I am trying to cover all the bases

 

[Amandeep]

For those hoping the Model 3 AWD might qualify for EHVIP rebates (presuming that "winds-down" slowly), I'm told the process is that Tesla had to wait for a batch of VIN's for the AWD models which were then submitted to the Ministry. So it's up to those that run the program as to whether they will add it to the list or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting on approval (at a higher than usual level) to do so given the program is ending. In the meantime, when you inquire, you get the run-around from MTO and the Ford camp. Perhaps their intent is to figure this out when they are back in session starting July 11 and we'll hear something the following week. If we don't, perhaps a well drafted / copied message to them from us all (who are in this boat) might prompt some action.

i second that

 

[sitter_k]

For those hoping the Model 3 AWD might qualify for EHVIP rebates (presuming that "winds-down" slowly), I'm told the process is that Tesla had to wait for a batch of VIN's for the AWD models which were then submitted to the Ministry. So it's up to those that run the program as to whether they will add it to the list or not. I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting on approval (at a higher than usual level) to do so given the program is ending. In the meantime, when you inquire, you get the run-around from MTO and the Ford camp. Perhaps their intent is to figure this out when they are back in session starting July 11 and we'll hear something the following week. If we don't, perhaps a well drafted / copied message to them from us all (who are in this boat) might prompt some action.

Are you saying the AWD submissions have already been made?

 

[PAWilson]

Are you saying the AWD submissions have already been made?

Here’s hoping

 

[sitter_k]

Here’s hoping

I'm too cautious to go for AWD even though I can afford it lol
The opportunity cost is way too high to lose the 14k. On my 3 year lease it will cover an entire year and a bit.

 

[PAWilson]

I'm too cautious to go for AWD even though I can afford it lol
The opportunity cost is way too high to lose the 14k. On my 3 year lease it will cover an entire year and a bit.

Yeah I understand, I’m willing to accept either way. At this time nothing is guaranteed anymore and possibly only confirmed orders retroactive to some date in the past might only be upheld, possibly only RWD. Many in limbo no matter what. I already have a confirmed AWD order so I’m sure, like everyone here, we just want clarity going forward.

 

[Birdman325]

I didn’t see any leasing options for Model 3