It's often hard to know what different people are experiencing under the heading of "phantom braking". I have the impression that in many cases it's a sudden lifting with resultant full regen "braking" whilst in other cases it clearly is the application of the brakes very firmly indeed. It's a good idea that people posting should do their best to clarify which it is when describing incidents. Certainly the expression "pin my head to the windscreen" makes it very clear for me!!
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Phantom braking (TACC/AP) [Not AEB]
- Thread starter cciebryan
- Start date
It's often hard to know what different people are experiencing under the heading of "phantom braking". I have the impression that in many cases it's a sudden lifting with resultant full regen "braking" whilst in other cases it clearly is the application of the brakes very firmly indeed. It's a good idea that people posting should do their best to clarify which it is when describing incidents. Certainly the expression "pin my head to the windscreen" makes it very clear for me!!
I get phantom braking very often...usual overtaking of Trucks on a motorway...or moving into the middle lane from the outside lane when a Truck is in the nearside lane.
The other day I had a terrible incident of phantom braking. Usual overtaking of a truck on a dual carriageway however just before the moment of emergency braking I squirted my windscreen washers...all hell broke loose. Emergency braking coupled with steering avoidance. The steering wheel when violently to the right and felt if I hadn't have caught it the car would've drove me into the central reservation barrier. Massively scary. Can only think the amount of water running over the front cameras at the same time as the overtaking confused it somewhat.
Anyone else experienced emergency braking coupled with a pretty extreme steering correction?
The other day I had a terrible incident of phantom braking. Usual overtaking of a truck on a dual carriageway however just before the moment of emergency braking I squirted my windscreen washers...all hell broke loose. Emergency braking coupled with steering avoidance. The steering wheel when violently to the right and felt if I hadn't have caught it the car would've drove me into the central reservation barrier. Massively scary. Can only think the amount of water running over the front cameras at the same time as the overtaking confused it somewhat.
Anyone else experienced emergency braking coupled with a pretty extreme steering correction?
It's preposterous that Tesla can't even manage phantom braking (even in something as basic as TACC???) and wants to sell FSD. In my other Lexus and Toyotas with radar cruise control, I've never once encountered phantom braking, even when driving in a carpool lane with stopped traffic in the other non-carpool lanes.
You'd think that if Tesla did what every other manufacturer does and used the forward radar to detect oncoming vehicles, TACC wouldn't be so easily spooked by ghosts and shadows.
One day, there will be a major lawsuit for fatalities due to these issues.
You'd think that if Tesla did what every other manufacturer does and used the forward radar to detect oncoming vehicles, TACC wouldn't be so easily spooked by ghosts and shadows.
One day, there will be a major lawsuit for fatalities due to these issues.
Jeeez it sound like a horse, talk about easily spooked. I am starting to worry about my decision to go with Tesla.
AndrewGR
Member
Do Tesla say TACC is only designed for motorways? I hadn’t picked that up. Everyone else’s cruise control seems to work fine on any road. I often use it in areas with 30 or 40 mph limits to avoid speeding and I’m sure others do too. However, I have to admit I hadn’t experienced TACC before getting the M3. The sometimes unexpected braking leaves me feeling that an ‘unadaptive’ cruise control is actually more useful except, perhaps, on motorways- but then I am always on edge waiting for the car to suffer a greater or lesser degree of unexpected braking when passing high sided vehicles, going under bridges, or passing through junctions. However, if the latest FSD is as good as EM claims I’m sure that simple TACC will be sorted in a soon to be released update.
MrBadger
Badger out
Not as specifically as saying motorways in the manual but the avoid list is numerous.
extract from 2020.44 manual
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Wol747
Active Member
>>New Im on 44 25 and both our cars are so much better with phantom braking. Now its a quick progressive slow down, as opposed to a violent jolt<<
I'm not sure this is actually an advance.
I would have thought that phantom braking is in response to a considered - if incorrect - imminent collision. In that scenario full, hard on braking would be appropriate. Slow. "soft" braking is weird - I don't see any need for it in any case I can think of.
I'm not sure this is actually an advance.
I would have thought that phantom braking is in response to a considered - if incorrect - imminent collision. In that scenario full, hard on braking would be appropriate. Slow. "soft" braking is weird - I don't see any need for it in any case I can think of.
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Wol747
Active Member
The one that winds me up is "loose" instead of "lose".
It's probably a result of people just dictating, or accepting what Micro$oft comes up with. Either way it's showing lack of attention to content, making the reader do the interpretation.
Typos excepted, of course <g>.
Or accepted, if that floats your boat.
It's probably a result of people just dictating, or accepting what Micro$oft comes up with. Either way it's showing lack of attention to content, making the reader do the interpretation.
Typos excepted, of course <g>.
Or accepted, if that floats your boat.
I did about 130 mostly motorway miles this morning. I had 4 episodes of phantom braking, all quite sever...enough to snap me forward in the seat. All occurred when pulling into a left lane, especially after passing a truck. One occurred when pulling into lane 1 which had cones on the hard shoulder but no vehicles near me in lane 1.
Not clever at all.
I'm on version 44.25
Not clever at all.
I'm on version 44.25
I’ve also had similar experiences. I find phantom braking usually happens around a large hgv. Yesterday I was alongside one and bam, brakes slammed on. I had another strange one where TACC just made a warning sound and completely disengaged for no apparent reason.
Let’s be honest, don’t think I’ve ever come across a commercial product that has over promised and under delivered quite like fsd. There’s absolutely no way fsd is capable with current hardware....NOA gives up when there’s moderate rainfall. Until the sensors can operate or clear themselves in inclement conditions then fsd just isn’t possible.
I admire the Elon’s purpose, but there’s an element of trying to run before they can walk in some of Tesla’s design.
Battery and drivetrain are on point though
MrBadger
Badger out
Quite an old (in FSD terms) FSD beta video. Some discussion mid way through about the role of the radar and what happens if it freezes and how to mitigate against that scenario.
Having had the upgrade to 2020.48.10 and done a couple of drives to London and back, it seems that phantom braking is pretty good in this release. I think I will never upgrade again. It still drives uncomfortably close to the left hand side of the lane (which it didn't back in 2018!) but all in all, a real improvement over the 2020.42 releases
I've had my M3 for less than a week and haven't yet tried AP, being aware of phantom issues I read about here before my purchase. After reading this litany of horror, I'm not going to touch it - at least till there's consensus that it's been significantly improved and made safe. As for FSD, forget it - it's irresponsible to even be selling it in its current state..
Sparkeur
Member
I have to admit, I'm disappointed. My driving is almost totally on the Autoroute - so 80mph. I've just stopped trying to use Nav by autopilot. With winter driving, it's either constantly turning off or on with accompanying chimes and messages, sending blocked camera messages, phantom braking, refusing to change lane and making sharp adjustments that upset passengers. I thought all this was going to be sorted out with the 'new' release but that's gone awfully quiet now. Shame.
kelvin 660
White SR+ with LFP battery
Tesla need to sort this out fast before someone gets killed!
I just had another PB passing a truck on the M5 motorway. It was dark and dry and I was using AP in lane 2. Then the car suddenly braked from 70 down to 40 mph as I drew level with the truck in lane 1, allowing the truck to speed past me!
God knows how anyone following didn't rear end me...
That's on software 2020.48.10
I forgot to save the dash cam video...
I just had another PB passing a truck on the M5 motorway. It was dark and dry and I was using AP in lane 2. Then the car suddenly braked from 70 down to 40 mph as I drew level with the truck in lane 1, allowing the truck to speed past me!
God knows how anyone following didn't rear end me...
That's on software 2020.48.10
I forgot to save the dash cam video...
pdk42
Active Member
My wife got an ID.3 recently and that has VW's ACC Adaptive Cruise Control. It works really well. No phantom braking at all and it also has a feature where it will slow the car for bends, junctions, roundabouts etc. It feels very solid and predictable. I believe it works on radar/lidar rather than optical cameras like Tesla. I guess snow etc will potentially fool it, but I think it's more tolerant of bad weather than the Tesla system.
It's much more modest in its ambitions, but it's reliable.
It's much more modest in its ambitions, but it's reliable.
I gave up using AP over a year ago after several episodes like the one you describe. I tend to try it again after each software update in the hope (rather than the expectation) that it’s improved and am invariably disappointed - in fact, as this thread suggests, lots of people think phantom braking is getting worse.
I think Elon would do better to be more modest in his approach, rather than coming out with all these ridiculous, pie in the sky predictions. FSD “feature complete” at the end of LAST year? A million robo taxis on the road by the end of this year? Yeah, ok Elon!
Yes x512456. I have been saying this. It needs re-calibrating and moving a foot rightwards and then the HGVs won’t be so bloody close! Less PB episodes that way I’m sure. I get them daily probably, but I tend to keep my foot on the throttle so I’m primed for action.... hardly a relaxing process!
Wol747
Active Member
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