lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
And I recommend that you set your rear toe at 0.2-0.25 each side to combat the dynamic toe instead of setting them merely“in spec”. No aftermarket equipment needed.
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Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?
- Thread starter KOL2000
- Start date
Thank you for sharing.
However, on the contrary to your post, I post on this thread often with one major goal: to try to get as many NHTSA Defect forms submitted as possible on what is NOT tire wear, but a tire defect.
Realistically, the vast majority of people with their sidewall/tread separation will just get new tires (at over $1k) and just move on--it takes a few minutes to fill out the form and most either don't know why this is so important, or won't make the time.
I hope the increased interest here will get more forms submitted as expecting Plaid owners to be "OCD enough" to buy and install 3rd party/aftermarket suspension equipment remains absurd. (And, given Tesla's new emphasis on lousy customer service, it would then open the door for Tesla to drop warranty coverage for the suspension due to modifications . . . yeah, I'll pass.)
Especially as these 1,020 hp Plaids enter the hands of second and third+ owners we will likely find ourselves reading headlines related to high-speed accidents due to tire failures, not too dissimilar to the Ford/Firestone fiasco. Yet this would be prevented if NHTSA would just open an investigation and force Michelin and Tesla to get this problem resolved, but here we are. And on this forum it's all about pushback for arguing for tires that do NOT physically come apart after 4k to 10k miles of use . . . .
Odd. Very odd.
Details for those unfamiliar with the stunning levels of ineptitude in the previous tire fiasco. But perhaps you are correct: at this rate it appears there won't be any movement until there are body bags in the hundreds again? Let's try to avoid that, shall we?
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
How about if Tesla revised the rear toe specification and aligned your car to it instead?Thank you for sharing.
However, on the contrary to your post, I post on this thread often with one major goal: to try to get as many NHTSA Defect forms submitted as possible on what is NOT tire wear, but a tire defect.
Realistically, the vast majority of people with their sidewall/tread separation will just get new tires (at over $1k) and just move on--it takes a few minutes to fill out the form and most either don't know why this is so important, or won't make the time.
I hope the increased interest here will get more forms submitted as expecting Plaid owners to be "OCD enough" to buy and install 3rd party/aftermarket suspension equipment remains absurd. (And, given Tesla's new emphasis on lousy customer service, it would then open the door for Tesla to drop warranty coverage for the suspension due to modifications . . . yeah, I'll pass.)
Especially as these 1,020 hp Plaids enter the hands of second and third+ owners we will likely find ourselves reading headlines related to high-speed accidents due to tire failures, not too dissimilar to the Ford/Firestone fiasco. Yet this would be prevented if NHTSA would just open an investigation and force Michelin and Tesla to get this problem resolved, but here we are. And on this forum it's all about pushback for arguing for tires that do NOT physically come apart after 4k to 10k miles of use . . . .
Odd. Very odd.
Details for those unfamiliar with the stunning levels of ineptitude in the previous tire fiasco. But perhaps you are correct: at this rate it appears there won't be any movement until there are body bags in the hundreds again? Let's try to avoid that, shall we?
Most of us are very familiar with it, but we understand this is not a tire delamination issue like with Firestone, it's an excess wear issue.Thank you for sharing.
However, on the contrary to your post, I post on this thread often with one major goal: to try to get as many NHTSA Defect forms submitted as possible on what is NOT tire wear, but a tire defect.
Realistically, the vast majority of people with their sidewall/tread separation will just get new tires (at over $1k) and just move on--it takes a few minutes to fill out the form and most either don't know why this is so important, or won't make the time.
I hope the increased interest here will get more forms submitted as expecting Plaid owners to be "OCD enough" to buy and install 3rd party/aftermarket suspension equipment remains absurd. (And, given Tesla's new emphasis on lousy customer service, it would then open the door for Tesla to drop warranty coverage for the suspension due to modifications . . . yeah, I'll pass.)
Especially as these 1,020 hp Plaids enter the hands of second and third+ owners we will likely find ourselves reading headlines related to high-speed accidents due to tire failures, not too dissimilar to the Ford/Firestone fiasco. Yet this would be prevented if NHTSA would just open an investigation and force Michelin and Tesla to get this problem resolved, but here we are. And on this forum it's all about pushback for arguing for tires that do NOT physically come apart after 4k to 10k miles of use . . . .
Odd. Very odd.
Details for those unfamiliar with the stunning levels of ineptitude in the previous tire fiasco. But perhaps you are correct: at this rate it appears there won't be any movement until there are body bags in the hundreds again? Let's try to avoid that, shall we?
Also in this post you again claim it's a tire defect, but just a few posts back you say Tesla and Michelin need to figure out what's happening. It sounds like you already know what's happening...or maybe you don't since no one of importance is listening.
One of the major issues I see with your big bird sized red herring argument, is that when you run around screaming about things that are obviously inaccurate, it detracts from future issues when someone voices a legitimate concern.
Also, were you able to find any instance at all showing the same wear from anyone that has an aftermarket solution and a proper alignment yet? Still patiently waiting... Because investigating a problem involves research from any aspect of the matter and not just making an assertion then relying on confirmation bias to support that assertion.
The Firestone tires were defective and separating, this was occurring mostly on the rear of high profile vehicles. Flat tire happens, the driver slams on the brakes, it skids, and then goes into a ditch and rolls. Ford didn't do much about it, not a design flaw on Fords part but they did overlook the problem. This was a tire problem.Thank you for sharing.
However, on the contrary to your post, I post on this thread often with one major goal: to try to get as many NHTSA Defect forms submitted as possible on what is NOT tire wear, but a tire defect.
Realistically, the vast majority of people with their sidewall/tread separation will just get new tires (at over $1k) and just move on--it takes a few minutes to fill out the form and most either don't know why this is so important, or won't make the time.
I hope the increased interest here will get more forms submitted as expecting Plaid owners to be "OCD enough" to buy and install 3rd party/aftermarket suspension equipment remains absurd. (And, given Tesla's new emphasis on lousy customer service, it would then open the door for Tesla to drop warranty coverage for the suspension due to modifications . . . yeah, I'll pass.)
Especially as these 1,020 hp Plaids enter the hands of second and third+ owners we will likely find ourselves reading headlines related to high-speed accidents due to tire failures, not too dissimilar to the Ford/Firestone fiasco. Yet this would be prevented if NHTSA would just open an investigation and force Michelin and Tesla to get this problem resolved, but here we are. And on this forum it's all about pushback for arguing for tires that do NOT physically come apart after 4k to 10k miles of use . . . .
Odd. Very odd.
Details for those unfamiliar with the stunning levels of ineptitude in the previous tire fiasco. But perhaps you are correct: at this rate it appears there won't be any movement until there are body bags in the hundreds again? Let's try to avoid that, shall we?
Tesla model S with 21s is pretty clearly an alignment issue not a tire issue, I know Michelin has replaced some tires, might be to save face or the relaationship and their own reputation. The specs are way more aggressive then needed or more than other factory performance cars. It could be that Tesla has aggressive rear camber to help the car to not over steer on aggressive throttle inputs in a corner, maybe the setting avoids more accidents then we know but then you have the inside rear tire wear problem. If a worn tire blows out, whos fault is that? Maybe the owner should have been watching the tires more closely. That is way different then the firestone tires, that looked perfect but blew out.
I suspect musk had aggressive settings for bragging rights and faster lap times. A little less camber in back and some toe in will make the car slower at the limit or on the track but will save tire wear, that is really the solution and I suspect tesla will go that direction.
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My 21s showed signs of wear, unfortunately I'm unsure of the miles that were on them as I bought the car used. These are my 19s after 10k miles. Just a rim/tire swap. Same alignment and all, on the side cameras they look like they are sitting at a pretty significant angle, but happy with the wear so far.
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The pain continues. Replaced 2 front tires today. -1.3° camber each side and -0.06 toe each side (in low and lowered 10mm). They both looked like this pic. I did not expect that wear. Time to look at more suspension parts.
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Honestly not sure. I have replaced so many tires on this car it is ridiculous. Mostly rears though (8-10 sets). I'm going to guess those had greater than 20k miles on them though.
Okay, I'll bite.
Assuming your proposed solution is correct and will address/prevent these chronic Michelin tire failures, Tesla will do that because: ___________________________________ ?
Tesla and Michelin seem locked into a scenario where the only way things will change is if the NHTSA forces them to make a change.
Thus, in nearly every other post here I beg the thousands that have had to replace their tires due to the inner sidewall/tread separation submit a claim to NHTSA so as to add to their growing pile of safety complaints.
Likewise, a formal warranty complaint to Michelin resulted in new tires from Michelin--perhaps that will get the accounting department to raise a red flag to someone at Michelin that THERE IS A PROBLEM?
Either way, these steps require people that give a damn and that can project how the status quo/do nothing approach will not end well; please be one of them.
Thanks.
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.
And:
Michelin Warranty Information | Michelin
We want you to be 100% satisfied with your Michelin tires. If you have questions, then view our Michelin Warranty Information and the Michelin Promise Plan.
www.michelinman.com
PR0FESSOR
Member
I have 12k on my tires since I put in adjustable arms and had my MSP realigned. No unusual wear at all... not even a hint of it.
Joe
Joe
For the 58th time, pretty much everyone's rear tires look like that, until the tread separates from the inner sidewall, an area that is very, very hard to see.
This is not shown in the photographs.
Camber's been at a pretty reasonable ~1.3 and total toe .30 - will do another check at 20K miles!Lots of camber there and zero excess wear
How many miles of use will deem wear to be not “excessive” in your eyes?
This is how the inner side of my rear looked after a couple of thousand km. Clearly excessive wear in the corner of the thread and side wall.
Than I made a wheel alignment in low with spefific requests to the settings.
In low my MSP had toe out.
It was set to +0°15’ on each side, for a total of 0°30’ total toe in.
Stock parts so the camber is -1°48 Left and -1°30’ Right.
After this the wear on the inside has not gotten worse, not even after playing on a closed runway strip in dragstrip mode and using Dragy.
It is easy to see the amount of bad wear on the shoulder, and it has stayed the same.
I use 15mm spacers, which would reduce the load on bushings in the toe link etc, so the forces possibly bending by reducing the ET if it is like some hear states, that high torque causes toe out.
I did run my M3P lowered 35mm and had around 1°30’ negative camber rear on both sides, very close to the right side on my MSP. The toe was identically set up, 0°14’ per side on the M3P,
After 66K km I had seen that it was not a big issue with either pirelli P Zero elect och michelin PS4S on that car.
The tyres did wear slightly more on the inside, but did not require any change until the whole thread needed to be changed.
Than I made a wheel alignment in low with spefific requests to the settings.
In low my MSP had toe out.
It was set to +0°15’ on each side, for a total of 0°30’ total toe in.
Stock parts so the camber is -1°48 Left and -1°30’ Right.
After this the wear on the inside has not gotten worse, not even after playing on a closed runway strip in dragstrip mode and using Dragy.
It is easy to see the amount of bad wear on the shoulder, and it has stayed the same.
I use 15mm spacers, which would reduce the load on bushings in the toe link etc, so the forces possibly bending by reducing the ET if it is like some hear states, that high torque causes toe out.
I did run my M3P lowered 35mm and had around 1°30’ negative camber rear on both sides, very close to the right side on my MSP. The toe was identically set up, 0°14’ per side on the M3P,
After 66K km I had seen that it was not a big issue with either pirelli P Zero elect och michelin PS4S on that car.
The tyres did wear slightly more on the inside, but did not require any change until the whole thread needed to be changed.
Attachments
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
You seem completely disinterested in actually understanding why your tires fail or how to prevent it.Okay, I'll bite.
Assuming your proposed solution is correct and will address/prevent these chronic Michelin tire failures, Tesla will do that because: ___________________________________ ?
Tesla and Michelin seem locked into a scenario where the only way things will change is if the NHTSA forces them to make a change.
Thus, in nearly every other post here I beg the thousands that have had to replace their tires due to the inner sidewall/tread separation submit a claim to NHTSA so as to add to their growing pile of safety complaints.
Likewise, a formal warranty complaint to Michelin resulted in new tires from Michelin--perhaps that will get the accounting department to raise a red flag to someone at Michelin that THERE IS A PROBLEM?
Either way, these steps require people that give a damn and that can project how the status quo/do nothing approach will not end well; please be one of them.
Thanks.
Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.www.nhtsa.gov
And:
Michelin Warranty Information | Michelin
We want you to be 100% satisfied with your Michelin tires. If you have questions, then view our Michelin Warranty Information and the Michelin Promise Plan.
Strange, here's another model x with the pirellis with excess inner tire wear.
@TSLA Pilot you want to let Michelin know they need to fix this one too?
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I don't know why this guy is constantly obsessed with equating a different car with a different tire with a different wear pattern to the 21" S failures
The above in no way resembles the below
The above in no way resembles the below
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