Porsche Mission E

[2virgule5]

The fact that they only have 'trash talk' for now is quite a sign that Porsche, and basically all auto manufacturers, are very late to the game and that their reactivity - or the lack thereof - put them in danger. It's quite a long time between now and 2019. Maybe we'll get to know more about their technology as we get closer but I doubt this thread will see lots of action in a while...

 

[tga]

Article (with Porsche press release) about Porsche's 919 hybrid race car:

Porsche's 919 Hybrid race car is shaping the future of its road cars | Porsche Club of America

About the 919's battery, the press release says:

Porsche chose a liquid-cooled lithium-ion battery, with hundreds of individual cells, each enclosed in its own cylindrical metal capsule – 2.7 inches high and 0.71 inches in diameter.

That's 69mm high by 18mm diameter - close enough to assume Porsche's using 18650's.

The article mentions the 2020 production date for the Mission E.

 

[FlatSix911]

Another article Porsche is ramping up effort to build the all-electric Mission E, will create more than 1,400 jobs [Gallery]

 

[chadever]

310 miles of range
0-60 in 3.5 seconds
80% charge in 15 minutes

Impressive, but then I realized it's by European standards.

Stick a new 50kWh batter pack in a 2010 Roadster and enable supercharging (145kW) and this is what it's capable of:

310 miles of range
0-60 in >3.7 seconds
80% charge in 16 minutes

This just shows how far behind Porsche really is. Silly Germans.

 

[Rashomon]

Article (with Porsche press release) about Porsche's 919 hybrid race car:

Porsche's 919 Hybrid race car is shaping the future of its road cars | Porsche Club of America

About the 919's battery, the press release says:

That's 69mm high by 18mm diameter - close enough to assume Porsche's using 18650's.

The article mentions the 2020 production date for the Mission E.

Porsche uses the A123 18700 F1 cell in their 919 endurance race car. That cell is a specialized thing indeed, the highest power cell currently available, capable of 200C discharge rates when it's operating at the correct temperature. It was designed for Formula One KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) use, and has been used extensively in F1. It has relatively low energy capacity -- if my memory serves -- only about 1Ah, compared to 3.4Ah or so for Tesla/Panasonic 18650s. But an individual A123 cell can deliver almost 200 amps, compared to maybe 12-15 amps max for the Panasonic cell. Costs a bit more as well ;-)

 

[EXOTIC1]

Another article Porsche is ramping up effort to build the all-electric Mission E, will create more than 1,400 jobs [Gallery]

View attachment 187330

Mission E is a looker that's 4 sure!

 

[alseTrick]

The Mission is is going to be double the price of the average Model S and easily triple the price of the base Model S. It's not going to be mass-produced and it's going to have minimal effect on Model S sales. The only way this impacts Tesla at all is if the Mission E tech is then implemented on the Panamera, Cayenne, etc., and that's so far from becoming a reality that I'm not much interested in discussing it or even bothering to think about it.

 

[Red Sage]

As a Porsche owner, I get monthly newsletters from two local dealerships. This month they feature the Mission E. I read the story hoping to learn more, but the article has no substance other than mentioning it will be fast charging. Will this be a halo vehicle priced like the 918? Will this be an everyday Porsche? What will the range be? I could get excited about a Boxster/Cayman with an electric drivetrain. The concept car looks kind of like a Panamera electrified.

I reserved a model S a couple of years before it came out. I had an idea of the base price, size, and performance. The Porsche seems to be vapor ware in comparison. I am too big for the original Tesla roadster so I will just have to wait for the next Roadster.

Since the top-of-the-line Panamera starts at over $260,000 I expect the Mission-E will probably cost no less than $300,000 per unit.

 

[MDMGSO47]

Porsche has introduced the Mission E, a new 600 hp electric concept car to enter production before 2020. In addition, Porsche announced its intent to build a supercharger system able to deliver 248 miles of range (400 km) in as little as 15 minutes, or 80% of the vehicle’s expected 310 miles of range per single charge. Being able to charge this quickly would require at least 150 kW of power, topping Tesla’s fast-charging Supercharger. Interestingly, Porsche also announced the charging network would be available to Tesla ( and likely MB) cars with an adapter (wonder if Tesla has agreed to reciprocate).

Porsche also announced it has no immediate plans to produce a self-driving car.

No sales price for the car was given. I wonder why. $250,000 +?

Porsche to build its own fast-charging network: 150 kW and Tesla capable?

The competition continues to ramp up after Tesla has blazed the trail.

 

[RogerHScott]

Mission E, a new 600 hp electric concept car to enter production before 2020

That's it, game over. Sell your TSLA stock.
Has Elon made any public statements about where he expects Tesla to be "concept-size" by "before 2020"? Flying, fully-autonomous
cars with 500 mile range?

Porsche announced its intent to build a supercharger system ... topping Tesla’s fast-charging Supercharger['s capability
four years previous]. Interestingly, Porsche also announced the charging network would be available to Tesla ( and likely MB) cars...

It would make tremendous sense, for this relatively far-out time frame, for the major players to be planning together to some
extent. It would obviously be crazy to deploy multiple SpC networks side-by-side. It would not be false or misleading for Porsche
to claim such a network will be available when their intention is for it to be provided in collaboration with Tesla (and possibly
others).

 

[kirkbauer]

Classic mistake in business strategy is to assume your competitors will be standing still while you innovate. That's especially true if your competitor is run by Elon Musk.

So, sure, IF they hit their target they will have something slightly better (for some use cases) in 2020 than Tesla has today. But what will Tesla have in 2020?

 

[Gizmotoy]

That they're building this thing is unsurprising given the response. Two things stuck out though.

One, the chargers they plan to deploy are 150kW and that it'll charge 248 miles (to 80% SOC) in 15 minutes. Given that's only a modest bump over the Supercharger network's current 120kW, they're clearly going to have to use a much more aggressive taper than Tesla is using.

Second:

Porsche CEO Oliver Blume tells TopGear that the company is working with other organizations to create a fast charging network which will also be made available to Tesla owners through the use of an adapter.

That'll be pretty interesting. It appears they're going to try to subsidize the chargers with cash from Tesla owners. Not an entirely bad idea depending on where they put them. Additionally, it may be a roundabout way of saying Porsche is interested in licensing access to the Superchargers as well, with the two companies sharing chargers.

 

[Wuggado?]

Making their charges available vs. available for free are two different things. Luckily, I can charge for free on Tesla's network pretty much everywhere I want to go, so unless Porsche wants to put their charges in those other, less frequently traveled places (or make theirs free to Tesla owners) I'll stick with free charges from Tesla.

 

[RogerHScott]

Since Tesla's already kind of got the big (capacity) relatively sparse part covered, maybe it would make sense for Porsche
to compliment that approach by installing numerous smaller (2-car?) fast chargers in 3-5x as many locations. I'd even be willing
to pay for destination charging for "local" driving on the far end of a long trip where the getting-there part was covered by free
Tesla SpC-ing.

 

[30seconds]

Porsche IS Audi/Lambo/ VW/ Seat. At this point the major platform level changes for EVs and infrastructure will need to be considered across the VW empire. I'm sure that the people at Porsche believe that they can make these decisions independent of wider VW but (I think) when it really sinks in what is need to transition from ICE to EV that independent franchise decisions will be too expensive compared to a wholesale shift. My prediction is that within the next 24 months we will see a major restructuring in VW in order to take advantage of EV architecture across the various brands.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

That they're building this thing is unsurprising given the response. Two things stuck out though.

One, the chargers they plan to deploy are 150kW and that it'll charge 248 miles (to 80% SOC) in 15 minutes. Given that's only a modest bump over the Supercharger network's current 120kW, they're clearly going to have to use a much more aggressive taper than Tesla is using.

Second:

That'll be pretty interesting. It appears they're going to try to subsidize the chargers with cash from Tesla owners. Not an entirely bad idea depending on where they put them. Additionally, it may be a roundabout way of saying Porsche is interested in licensing access to the Superchargers as well, with the two companies sharing chargers.

So doing the math.

150KW in 15 minutes or 1/4 hour = 150/4 = 37.5KWh in 15 minutes. They claim it can drive 248 miles.

So 37.5KWh/248miles = 151.2Wh/mi.

If porsche can achieve this. It would be record! This comes out to be 222.9 mpge. The current king of efficiency is the BMW i3 and that has 137 mpge in the city.

Porsche must have something up their sleeves to make such outrageous claims.

 

[RogerHScott]

Porsche must have something up their sleeves to make such outrageous claims.

A belief that most people can't do basic math?

 

[Canuck]

Until it's actually for sale, this thread should be titled: New Porsche Electric Concept Car. That's what Porsche calls it, and for good reason.

I don't believe Porsche has any real desire to transition to electric electric vehicles.

 

[ecarfan]

Porsche has introduced the Mission E

That was announced a year ago. See Porsche Announces BEV Concept Car - "Mission E"

You made your post in the Tesla Motors "Future Cars" forum, which is for future cars that Tesla may decide to build. You post should have been made in the "Electric Vehicles" forum which is for EVs built by other manufacturers.

I have requested that a moderator merge this thread with the existing thread I linked to.

 

[ApauloThirteen]

Looks sell cars (except of course for the new prius backend). Uhm... usu a big fan of porsche but c'mon you cannot be serious with how that front part of the car looks. Ugh. Lee.