Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

[Rocky_H]

Is it too much to ask that manufacturers make things identical for everyone they sell to?

Mmm, grey area. There is no easy and perfect solution to a global supply breakdown and semiconductor chip shortage. You act like you think this is uniquely a Tesla problem. It's far from it. And also, you are still framing this as if it is missing something it's supposed to have. That is still backward. These cars from Tesla all have AT LEAST what they are supposed to have.

Other automakers have been having to deal with a global chip shortage too, and have been handling it in many ways. Some of them are just piling up unfinished vehicles by the tens of thousands, not delivering them because they are unable to complete them. That is what you are asking for to make sure they are all the same.

Other makers are going ahead and delivering the vehicles anyway, with parts missing and functions not working.

I put "cars sitting missing chips" into Google and turned up dozens of articles about it. You can read some of these to learn about it.

Everything you need to know about the chip shortage that's plaguing automakers

Why is there a semiconductor chip shortage? How long will the chip shortage last? How does the chip shortage impact cars? Here's what to know.

www.freep.com

Stockpile of Unfinished Ford Super Duty Pickups Missing Chips Is Now Visible from Space

Notice how new trucks are getting harder and harder to find? Well, here's why.

www.thedrive.com

Ford Still Has Over 60,000 Incomplete Vehicles Waiting for Chips

Ahead of an earnings call on Wednesday, Ford noted that it had a significant number of vehicles still in need of parts.

www.thedrive.com

Here Are Features Some New Cars Won't Get Because of the Chip Shortage

You might have to do without items from heated seats to infotainment screens on your new-vehicle purchase, but this won't last.

www.caranddriver.com

A Tiny Part’s Big Ripple: Global Chip Shortage Hobbles the Auto Industry (Published 2021)

Almost every carmaker has had to curtail production, hampering the economic recovery.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.carsdirect.com/automotive-news/industry-news/ford-may-send-dealers-cars-with-missing-chips

Vehicle Recalls: How Is Your Company Affected? | Motus

The automotive market has been in an upheaval over the last few years. Vehicle recalls have been a big issue. How can a vehicle recall impact your company?

www.motus.com

 

[GtiMart]

"Is it too much to ask that manufacturers make things identical for everyone they sell to"... ? Yes, I think it is too much to ask. What you are buying is what is described and advertised as the product. Would you mind if I had the interior (invisible, inside the structure) of the door of my dishwasher painted black and yours was white? That's not part of the set of features that are sold to the clients. Does it matter that one gets a Bosch motor and another gets a different manufacturer? As long as both motors provide the same capabilities and same durability, I state it doesn't matter and shouldn't matter to you. This lets manufacturers move around their providers, adjust things.

Some people got a 980 rear motor in their AWD, I didn't get one so I cannot buy the super module from Ingenext, I had to buy the performance boost from Tesla. So what? I was sold an LR AWD car, there was no mention of the possibility of getting a 980 motor anywhere. The car I was sold "checks all the boxes" of all the features that were listed as part of my purchase. I have no right, no ground, to complain.

CCS capability isn't in the feature set that is sold, as Rocky_H is trying to make you understand. It's the same thing as my previous examples.

 

[Rocky_H]

This lets manufacturers move around their providers, adjust things.

Yeah, I think I'm going to have unpleasant and shocking news for him about any computer or cell phone he's ever bought. The phrase "sole source" is a dirty word. You always want to design so that you can use memory chips or various things from multiple suppliers. So no, rarely will you be able to find a piece of electronics where all of them are actually identical.

 

[Exelion]

There's a big difference between having differing parts than having missing parts. We can go on whether or not the *missing* parts were actually bonuses to those who get them vs. those who didn't.

In the example of the dishwasher, this would not be the, Bosch motor vs. some other motor. This would be like me not getting the *wine glass rack* when other people do, but not having such included accessory explicitly stated in the manual. In the Tesla, not the 980 vs 990 motor, but *missing lumbar support* and possible *missing CCS chip*.

One means you get similar performance and usability, the other means, you lose the ability to do something someone else can.

Ok, I'll give it to Tesla and other manufacturers that we're in a Pandemic (still) and there's major supply chain/manufacturing issues. Fortunately my car has passenger lumbar control and the CCS chip. The question comes down to how will they handle the people who don't? If I was to call up Bosch and they told me they'll send me a *wine glass rack* when they have them in stock, that's good effort on their part. BMW had (has?) an issue with one of their cars and said they will offer free retrofits for them later on. I forgot which part they had a shortage of. But if Tesla does the same, (I'll give them a benefit and say they'll probably do that) then that's good. But to say, *you don't have that, sorry. suck it up.* That's something else.

 

[Rocky_H]

There's a big difference between having differing parts than having missing parts.

They are NOT "missing" when the cars are not supposed to have them. Why do we have to keep reminding you of that? You are welcome to be accurate and use the word "extra" if you want.

 

[GtiMart]

He'd be disappointed if his neighbor got the wine glass rack and not him, whereas we would just say "meh, would have been nice but was not in the product I bought". At this point it's a matter of perception, feeling, not a matter of facts. We will not agree and it seems we will not change his mind. The facts are clear, the CCS chip was never advertised as delivered.

 

[Exelion]

They are NOT "missing" when the cars are not supposed to have them. Why do we have to keep reminding you of that? You are welcome to be accurate and use the word "extra" if you want.

How about you just calm down?

You're not "reminding" me of anything. This is, like the post right above mine says, is a matter of perception. The fact is, some people got parts, others didn't. Some people got passenger lumbar support, some didn't. Some people got CCS chips, some didn't. How we all look at this issue can be different views. Nobody's going to change their mind and that's that.

Ganging up on me and using the word "we" vs. "you" is just making things worse.

There's a few people that are upset with Tesla (I'm not one of them, because I have above mentioned parts), and I can see why they would be, is all. For those that didn't get passenger lumbar support and/or CCS chips, I wish you the best and hope you get those parts some way or another.

 

[GtiMart]

Sorry on the us vs him thing, I was trying to include Rocky_H with me. I'll agree it was not a good wording. I was not trying to gang up.

You are correct on the fact that some people got different parts. I am also correct that the CCS chip was never advertised as included in the purchase. Those are all facts, we should be able to agree on them.

We interpret those facts differently. To me, the "contract" between me and Tesla when I bought the car did not talk about the CCS chip so I have no right to request that it be present. Tesla changed what they delivered, without changing the contract. To me, the contract has a very high importance.

You seem to place less importance on the contract and seem to infer that everyone deserves the new part. That's where our opinions differ.

EDIT: OH, by the way, I do not have the CCS chip, and I would obviously prefer to have it.

 

[MP3Mike]

You're not "reminding" me of anything. This is, like the post right above mine says, is a matter of perception. The fact is, some people got parts, others didn't. Some people got passenger lumbar support, some didn't. Some people got CCS chips, some didn't. How we all look at this issue can be different views. Nobody's going to change their mind and that's that.

Of course the actual contract, the order agreement, very clearly covers this:

Your Vehicle is priced and configured based on features and options available at the time of order and you can confirm availability with a Tesla representative. Options, features or hardware released or changed after you place your order may not be included in or available for your Vehicle.

By placing an order people have agreed that they might only get what they ordered, and not what was changed/added after they ordered.

 

[Exelion]

We interpret those facts differently. To me, the "contract" between me and Tesla when I bought the car did not talk about the CCS chip so I have no right to request that it be present. Tesla changed what they delivered, without changing the contract. To me, the contract has a very high importance.

You seem to place less importance on the contract and seem to infer that everyone deserves the new part. That's where our opinions differ.

EDIT: OH, by the way, I do not have the CCS chip, and I would obviously prefer to have it.

Thanks for this, I appreciate the professionalism, and the way the above was worded. You are correct, we do agree 100% on the facts. You're right, to me, the practice of removing something that was present for others previously, regardless of contract, isn't favorable for the customer. How the company deals with that afterwards is another matter, and is more customer service than supply chain.

I'm going to wait until Tesla releases the CCS to Tesla adapter and see how they handle cars *without CCS chips*.

 

[jsight]

Yeah, I think I'm going to have unpleasant and shocking news for him about any computer or cell phone he's ever bought. The phrase "sole source" is a dirty word. You always want to design so that you can use memory chips or various things from multiple suppliers. So no, rarely will you be able to find a piece of electronics where all of them are actually identical.

Yes, although occasionally that can be controversial too. Eg, Apple with varying SSD brands, or phones with different performing LCD screens. This is especially true when the early units were slightly better than the later ones, as this means the reviews were done with the superior product.

But, tbh, whether right or wrong, its a pretty common pattern. Its always been the case with Tesla, where the month of delivery can sometimes have very surprising results. Sometimes they are good (eg, added heated steering wheel) and sometimes they aren't so good (remember frunk-hook-gate?).

 

[mociaf9]

Is it too much to ask that manufacturers make things identical for everyone they sell to? Excluding model years, trims, etc.

Yes, I think it is too much to ask of a manufacturer that has very publicly made clear that they don't do model years. Tesla adds/removes/changes internal configurations on their cars all the time. And sometimes those changes are regressed at a later point or dropped altogether. Most of the time, this is all invisible to the 99.9999% of owners who aren't doing engineering teardowns of their car. This just happens to be one time where it's going to be relatively high profile.

I'm certainly in agreement that the situation sucks for the owners who ended up missing out on the CCS capability and who (I assume) will have to pay for the port upgrades, I just disagree that they had any reasonable expectation that their car should have it just because someone else's car does. I would, of course, feel differently if Tesla had ever marketed that car as being capable of using CCS with their adapter.

 

[BritneySpears]

You are completely missing the point.

Is it too much to ask that manufacturers make things identical for everyone they sell to? Excluding model years, trims, etc....what would you think if say, you bought a dishwasher and it had different (missing) small features that someone else bought, same trim, same year? Sure, of course, you could say, I have no RIGHT to say that HAD to have those features, and I should simply NOT BUY said dishwasher, and that's absolutely correct, I (and others like me) don't HAVE to buy that dishwasher. But it just makes that manufacturer look, not so great anymore. Lack of trust. If I was to continue to buy from that manufacturer, I'd look very carefully to see what I was (or not) getting.

I agree. It’s like Tesla offering you their chademo adapter but then it doesn’t work on your car because you need a gizmo but your neighbor with the same car and model year has it. I can’t see how that’s fair.

 

[Rocky_H]

I agree. It’s like Tesla offering you their chademo adapter but then it doesn’t work on your car because you need a gizmo but your neighbor with the same car and model year has it. I can’t see how that’s fair.

The thing that determines what is fair is whether the car had the things that it says it is supposed to have. If you want to offer the "It's like..." scenarios, it would be like someone at a fast food place throwing in free cookies on some day with people's combo meals. They combo meals are not supposed to come with those cookies, but some people got a bonus that they were not expecting and weren't entitled to have. Then, for the next week, when the employees aren't throwing in those freebies, people are complaining that they have been ripped off and stolen from because their combo meals are just combo meals, which is exactly what they are supposed to be, without any extras. Sometimes things go on sale or have better deals and some people get those, but they aren't always forever.

 

[BritneySpears]

The thing that determines what is fair is whether the car had the things that it says it is supposed to have. If you want to offer the "It's like..." scenarios, it would be like someone at a fast food place throwing in free cookies on some day with people's combo meals. They combo meals are not supposed to come with those cookies, but some people got a bonus that they were not expecting and weren't entitled to have. Then, for the next week, when the employees aren't throwing in those freebies, people are complaining that they have been ripped off and stolen from because their combo meals are just combo meals, which is exactly what they are supposed to be, without any extras. Sometimes things go on sale or have better deals and some people get those, but they aren't always forever.

That’s an inaccurate analogy. I don’t disagree with your meal story but it’s irrelevant . Read the chademo analogy.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That’s an inaccurate analogy. I don’t disagree with your meal story but it’s irrelevant . Read the chademo analogy.

His point is given Tesla never promised CCS compatibility, there isn't really anything "unfair" about certain cars not supporting it. It's just a bonus. Plus that fact the adapter has not launched yet in the US anyways.

I should note the CHAdeMO initially was not compatible with Model 3, so it's not like it is unprecedented.
Tesla finally makes CHAdeMO adapter compatible with Model 3, giving access to 3rd party charging networks
They also did a mid-year change back in 2019 for the EU Model S/X, so cars older than that (but same year) were not compatible and had to be retrofitted.
Tesla launches $190 CCS adapter for new Model S and Model X, offers retrofits for older vehicles

Tesla is known for mid-year changes, they don't follow traditional car model years where things don't change in the same "model year". There's nothing really fair/unfair about it, it's just how they operate. There may be improvements or downgrades that happen in between. Unless explicitly promised when ordered, just don't expect certain features to be there.

 

[Earl]

but your neighbor with the same car and model year

Clearly, your neighbor does not have "the same car and model year".

It never ceases to amaze me how some folks go about rationalizing their sense of entitlement.

 

[Delta 224]

Same as my setec pass through.

Hey @rhuber - not that I plan on doing this, but did you do a thermal switch on the DC contacts for the pilot line temperature sensing or something more refined for the Setec passthru?

 

[cwerdna]

For those who want to do more CCS testing, EA is offering free juice again on Earth Day.

See Electrify America complimentary sessions (stations set.... for more details/caveats.

 

[Tedkidd]

another adapter