Software Update 2018.42.x

[JasonA-EV]

I live in California. HOV lane and regular lane are divided by double yellow lines. You can only merge in or out of the HOV lane when there is an opening (dash line).

First an early morning LOLZ for the "only merge" when the dotted lines appears! (I have more stories than the Bible on that one!)

Second, I'm in SoCal and drive on tons of the HOV lanes and can tell you this is not true but just dual and triple white lines in many places.

 

[bayx]

Day 3 commuting with NoA... it has still never once actively merged onto a highway. If I don't take over, it just cruises all the way to the end of the acceleration lane and then swerves over into the highway lane at the last minute, as the lane is ending, without ever signalling or prompting for a lane change. For exit ramps, as I said above, it waits until the deceleration lane is half gone before signalling and taking the exit, which if the deceleration lane is short (most are around here) is a real problem.

Last night I got to try it on several highway interchanges because I had a longer drive. It was 1 for 4 on those interchanges; the other 3 times I had to take over.

I think I've figured out how NoA actually works. It doesn't really know much about lanes in absolute terms, like "this section of highway has 4 regular lanes and one entrance ramp acceleration lane which ends in 200ft, and I am currently in the acceleration lane", or "I am currently in lane 2 out of 4" or anything like that. I could be wrong, but based on my experience I think it's much simpler; it more or less knows only "I am in the rightmost lane because there's nothing to my right", or "I am in the leftmost lane because there's nothing to my left". And if it knows it's supposed to be exiting right in 1 mile, it just asks for lane changes to the right until there's nothing to its right.

Extremely disappointing and in my experience -- let me reiterate that this part is not conjecture but is my actual experience from using NoA on urban highways -- it is completely useless for urban highways and for commuting in heavy traffic. Never mind heavy traffic -- I've done two evening commutes that were well past rush hour and traffic was about as light as it ever is in an urban area, and it still couldn't handle it.

I imagine that the feature works pretty well on generous and simple highways of the sort you find in suburban and rural areas, or more recently-constructed urban highways in places with plenty of land area to devote to huge, gentle interchanges and ramps. (E.g. Atlanta and most other Southern cities, and most Midwestern cities). It's not even close to being able to handle space-constrained urban or hilly/mountainous highways.

It will probably be great on a road trip. Which is I do a handful of times per year. But the added value it brings even on a road trip, over what TACC and Autosteer already provide, is very very slim. I would venture to bet that it needs to get it right at least 9 times out of 10 to be worth it in whatever context you're using it, because when it gets it right that's sort of nice but not really all that useful, but when it gets it wrong it's at minimum annoying and scary and at worst dangerous.

Right now, for me, NoA has gotten it right 2 times out of 15 (I'm counting each entrance/exit and each interchange I've tried separately). When it gets it right 9 times out of 10 I'll consider it a cool trick. When it gets it right 19 times out of 20 it will be a somewhat valuable feature, but then again nothing nearly as valuable as TACC+Autosteer+ALC already gives me. When it gets it right with ULC 999,999 times out of 1,000,000, and the other 1 time does something wrong/annoying but still safe, Tesla will maybe have something they can claim is a highway L3 system (which they more or less implied EAP would be, and definitely FSD needs to be). They have a long way to go.

Sounds like Tesla has a long way to go before they could release FSD! Meanwhile, Waymo got approval yesterday from the California DMV to have around 38 of their vehicles to drive around Silicon Valley without any human inside!!

 

[efusco]

Does anyone know if dashcam is finally fixed with better consistency without the x showing up so frequently

Have been asking this in the Model 3 version of the v9.42 thread and not getting a lot of information. So far I've had my USB thumbdrive reinstalled for about 24 hours without seeing the gray "X" of death. So I'm cautiously optimistic. I have not seen any reports of of issues yet either.

 

[Ken7]

I just received the new update and previously noticed, some pages back, that someone had mentioned the depiction of vehicles in the IC was more stable with 2018.42. However I see no change on my IC and the cars & trucks still dance around even though they're stationary at a stop light. Has anyone else noticed any significant change in vehicle depiction on the IC?

 

[efusco]

I just received the new update and previously noticed, some pages back, that someone had mentioned the depiction of vehicles in the IC was more stable with 2018.42. However I see no change on my IC and the cars & trucks still dance around even though they're stationary at a stop light. Has anyone else noticed any significant change in vehicle depiction on the IC?

No significant improvement, for sure. Had a vehicle behind me (same lane) just offset a bit in the lane and the display constantly showed it in the next lane but flickering into and out of being on-top of the back of my car.

 

[boonedocks]

I just received the new update and previously noticed, some pages back, that someone had mentioned the depiction of vehicles in the IC was more stable with 2018.42. However I see no change on my IC and the cars & trucks still dance around even though they're stationary at a stop light. Has anyone else noticed any significant change in vehicle depiction on the IC?

Placebo-Effect. Happens all the time around here. LOL

 

[chillaban]

I think I've figured out how NoA actually works. It doesn't really know much about lanes in absolute terms, like "this section of highway has 4 regular lanes and one entrance ramp acceleration lane which ends in 200ft, and I am currently in the acceleration lane", or "I am currently in lane 2 out of 4" or anything like that. I could be wrong, but based on my experience I think it's much simpler; it more or less knows only "I am in the rightmost lane because there's nothing to my right", or "I am in the leftmost lane because there's nothing to my left". And if it knows it's supposed to be exiting right in 1 mile, it just asks for lane changes to the right until there's nothing to its right.

Extremely disappointing and in my experience -- let me reiterate that this part is not conjecture but is my actual experience from using NoA on urban highways -- it is completely useless for urban highways and for commuting in heavy traffic. Never mind heavy traffic -- I've done two evening commutes that were well past rush hour and traffic was about as light as it ever is in an urban area, and it still couldn't handle it.

Maybe there's something wrong with mapping in your area, but that's not my experience with its understanding of the highway. In heavy traffic, while I'm in the far left lane, I will start seeing the ideal "gray lane" indication move one lane to the right every 1 mile closer to the exit or so. By the time I was 2 miles from my exit in the HOV lane, it was showing a gray line 4 lanes over, indicating that's where it really wanted to be but it didn't see an opportunity to get over there.

With that said, I was able to move over there both with courteous drivers (if you signal and then the car next to you slows down, NoAP takes it as an opportunity to lane change) and by manually taking over on a few occasions. It definitely seems to understand exactly which lane it's in and which lane it should be in. It's just too chicken right now to move over. That logic definitely needs more work -- at some point, it needs to start blinker spamming or warning you that you should really get over before it's too late.

On another note, I agree with your observations about merging. It doesn't seem to take the initiative to merge after getting through an onramp.... It doesn't start accelerating soon enough and fast enough, and it also doesn't attempt a lane change until it runs out of room at the end of the onramp. this is not how a human would drive.... Like your observation, I found that if I command a lane change soon enough, it's actually capable of making a suitable Auto Lane Change, but it requires pressing the accelerator too to get enough speed to make a suitable merge.


Overall it seems like a step in the right direction, and I'm fairly happy, especially given the miscellaneous non-NoAP improvements added. Being able to choose the right fork/exit alone covers like 50-75% of my highway disengagements, but it's definitely not onramp to offramp ready yet. Hope they keep improving on AP2 at the pace they've done so in 2018.

 

[Doctt]

First an early morning LOLZ for the "only merge" when the dotted lines appears! (I have more stories than the Bible on that one!)

Second, I'm in SoCal and drive on tons of the HOV lanes and can tell you this is not true but just dual and triple white lines in many places.

I can't say every single HOV lane in SoCal is divided by double yellow lines, but at least some are.

However, u are missing my point because u are too busy mocking me. I don't care whether it is white or yellow. NoA should not suggest lane change to HOV lane because it is illegal to merge to the lane thru double yellow lines (or double white lines in some areas).

Right now, not a big deal. However, once unattended lane change is activated for NoA, it will become an issue because you will get a ticket for it.

I submitted a bug report already. Hope they will fix it soon.

 

[ucmndd]

AP2, got 42.2 last night. Like others, no mention of nav on autopilot in release notes and no setting to enable. Driving 50 miles this morning, including 20+ on brand new well-marked freeway, changed nothing. Nor did a couple screen reboots.

 

[JohnnyG]

I can't say every single HOV lane in SoCal is divided by double yellow lines, but at least some are.

However, u are missing my point because u are too busy mocking me. I don't care whether it is white or yellow. NoA should not suggest lane change to HOV lane because it is illegal to merge to the lane thru double yellow lines (or double white lines in some areas).

Right now, not a big deal. However, once unattended lane change is activated for NoA, it will become an issue because you will get a ticket for it.

I submitted a bug report already. Hope they will fix it soon.

We already know that it will suggest a lane change, even when it can't make the change quite yet (i.e. when it needs to get over, but there is a car next to you). In these cases, it just wants confirmation from you, but it won't actually initiate the physical lane change until it is allowed to safely.

That said, unless you actually actuated your turn signal or AP stalk to give it confirmation, and it initiated the lane change across the double solid lines, I don't think we can declare the sky is falling on this one quite yet.... You don't have enough plausible evidence at this point that it would make an illegal lane change if left unattended.

 

[Doctt]

We already know that it will suggest a lane change, even when it can't make the change quite yet (i.e. when it needs to get over, but there is a car next to you). In these cases, it just wants confirmation from you, but it won't actually initiate the physical lane change until it is allowed to safely.

That said, unless you actually actuated your turn signal or AP stalk to give it confirmation, and it initiated the lane change across the double solid lines, I don't think we can declare the sky is falling on this one quite yet....

Of course I know it. That is why I said it is not a big deal now. But it will be an issue once ULC goes live.

Your scenerio is diff. Right now it may suggest lane change when there is a car next to u, the dividing line turns red. Even if I confirm, it won't change lane until it is safe. The car clearly knows what is going on

In my case here, i actually confirmed lane change to HOV lane thru double yellow lines. The car complied before I cancelled it.

 

[chillaban]

I can't say every single HOV lane in SoCal is divided by double yellow lines, but at least some are.

However, u are missing my point because u are too busy mocking me. I don't care whether it is white or yellow. NoA should not suggest lane change to HOV lane because it is illegal to merge to the lane thru double yellow lines (or double white lines in some areas).

Right now, not a big deal. However, once unattended lane change is activated for NoA, it will become an issue because you will get a ticket for it.

I submitted a bug report already. Hope they will fix it soon.

View attachment 348620

Sorry that you’re getting mocked for this. This is definitely a bug. It’s not like it never understands these things — here in norCal AP2 definitely recognizes solid lines (single white lines are used here, sometimes double white lines, and they have the same meaning as your picture in SoCal)

 

[rush6410]

OK, am I the only person who usually puts on the turn signal several hundred feet before reaching my exit? NoA in my experience, even though it knows the exit is coming up, waits until the deceleration lane is halfway behind it before even putting on the signal. And then it just immediately zooms over. The point of a turn signal is to signal in advance.

Not in Texas. Turning on the signal, preempts the adjacent cars to cut you off. So, current signal behavior favors Texas driving.

 

[rnortman]

Maybe there's something wrong with mapping in your area, but that's not my experience with its understanding of the highway. In heavy traffic, while I'm in the far left lane, I will start seeing the ideal "gray lane" indication move one lane to the right every 1 mile closer to the exit or so. By the time I was 2 miles from my exit in the HOV lane, it was showing a gray line 4 lanes over, indicating that's where it really wanted to be but it didn't see an opportunity to get over there.

For me, it identifies wide left shoulders as lanes when I am in the right lane (on a two-lane section), so it displays 3 lanes where there are two. It does this consistently. I think there is a somehow a tenuous connection between the map information and the lanes displayed. I think the behavior you see can be explained even if the car doesn't do anything with maps. If it sees three lanes to your left, and it knows you have an exit on the right coming up, it knows you have to move to the right. The closer you get to the exit the closer it wants to be to the right lane.

So my question is -- how does it handle exits/interchanges where you need to be in a specific lane which isn't leftmost or rightmost? Let's say that it does at it does for me all the time and recognizes the shoulder as a lane when you are not right next to the shoulder already, and you're on a three-lane road and you need to be in the middle lane. But it sees a 4-lane road, or maybe a 5-lane road if it recognizes both shoulders as lanes. What does it do? This gets way worse probably if you're on a 5-lane road and need to be in the middle lane, but it sees the shoulders as lanes if you're not in the leftmost or rightmost lane. It might think you're already in the lane you need to be in, especially if there's stop & go traffic and it can't see all the lanes all the way across because they're obstructed by cars.

 

[akraut]

here in norCal AP2 definitely recognizes solid lines

I've been taking advantage of this. Since V9, I can turn my blinker on for the San Mateo exit before the exit lane exists and the car will wait for the dotted lines, then look for a safe space to move over. It makes me giggle and clap my hands with joy every time.

 

[chillaban]

For me, it identifies wide left shoulders as lanes when I am in the right lane (on a two-lane section), so it displays 3 lanes where there are two. It does this consistently. I think there is a somehow a tenuous connection between the map information and the lanes displayed. I think the behavior you see can be explained even if the car doesn't do anything with maps. If it sees three lanes to your left, and it knows you have an exit on the right coming up, it knows you have to move to the right. The closer you get to the exit the closer it wants to be to the right lane.

So my question is -- how does it handle exits/interchanges where you need to be in a specific lane which isn't leftmost or rightmost? Let's say that it does at it does for me all the time and recognizes the shoulder as a lane when you are not right next to the shoulder already, and you're on a three-lane road and you need to be in the middle lane. But it sees a 4-lane road, or maybe a 5-lane road if it recognizes both shoulders as lanes. What does it do? This gets way worse probably if you're on a 5-lane road and need to be in the middle lane, but it sees the shoulders as lanes if you're not in the leftmost or rightmost lane. It might think you're already in the lane you need to be in, especially if there's stop & go traffic and it can't see all the lanes all the way across because they're obstructed by cars.

So to your first point: It doesn't always suggest the rightmost lane. Today, it suggested the 2nd lane from the right because after that exit I needed to take the right fork. It also gradually suggests 1 lane per mile from the leftmost lane. To your point, I can't tell if this is absolute lane guidance or relative lane guidance (e.g. does it know it wants this precise lane, or does the metadata say it's one from the right lane, or 3 from the left lane).

So far, it's given me correct guidance even when it recognized a shoulder "lane" that isn't a lane. But I've only had 2 days with this feature so I'm sure I'll find it glitching in the upcoming days.

 

[rnortman]

I've been taking advantage of this. Since V9, I can turn my blinker on for the San Mateo exit before the exit lane exists and the car will wait for the dotted lines, then look for a safe space to move over. It makes me giggle and clap my hands with joy every time.

When I try this in Pittsburgh it zooms past the exit ramp, never recognizing it as a lane, or maybe only at the last minute, at which point if I allowed it to execute the change I would end up on the nightly news after hitting a concrete barrier.

No surprise that it works better in California I guess, since presumably that's where all the developers live.

 

[mkc731]

AP 2.5 MS. Received/installed 42.2 last night via Tesla app; was on 39.6. This morning, NoA was shown in release notes and available to use immediately. Certainly a work in progress, but this is certainly progress.

First, the bad—NoA would have missed an off ramp from one highway to another had I not taken over manually. Challenging circumstances for NoA, as the exit lane exists for only a few hundred feet there, but it nonetheless failed to recommend a lane change (or change lanes by itself, which I’ve seen some suggestions that it will do). Also, NoA is only as good as the routing, and in the Bay Area, I do not find that the routing properly accounts for time savings from use of HOV lanes (notwithstanding toggling the “Use HOV Lanes” Navigation option). Thus, there is a 15-minute savings by taking HOV lanes/ramps that Tesla Nav does not recognize, so use of NoA is rendered much less useful. Hope they fix this.

On the other hand, the good—AP is improved, particularly with merges. One of the longstanding AP problem areas is dealing with traffic merging into the Tesla’s lane from the left (e.g., traveling in an HOV lane, which is the leftmost, with an express lane emptying into your HOV lane). Today in that very scenario, AP recognized a car travelling down a ramp that was going to merge with the lane I was in, then slowed down by about 15 mph to let that car go ahead and then filled in behind it in the merged lane. I was extemely impressed.

[Inevitably, someone will claim it’s been handling that merge since v7.1 or some such, but I have been using AP for 95% of my 120-mile daily commute for a little over a year, and AP has never shown the level of situational awareness needed to handle this scenario before. Also, equally inevitably, some will note AP still mishandles merges with some frequency; I am sure that is true, but handling this situation well even some of the time is progress, despite that we’d all of course prefer perfection from AP yesterday.]

 

[rnortman]

So to your first point: It doesn't always suggest the rightmost lane. Today, it suggested the 2nd lane from the right because after that exit I needed to take the right fork. It also gradually suggests 1 lane per mile from the leftmost lane. To your point, I can't tell if this is absolute lane guidance or relative lane guidance (e.g. does it know it wants this precise lane, or does the metadata say it's one from the right lane, or 3 from the left lane).

I think this is probably right. It targets a certain number of lanes from one side of the road or another. The thing is, the maps know how many lanes there actually are; I know this because the navigation turn-by-turn directions show the number of lanes and which one I'm supposed to be in correctly, even when the AP display shows the wrong number of lanes.

On that subject, I had an interchange last night where I needed to merge onto one highway and then quickly merge left across three lanes to take a left exit. Navigation knew what needed to happen, but NoA only moved over one lane and then took its time getting its bearings, even though there was no traffic and it could have changed lanes whenever it liked. I had to take over and swerve to the left at the last minute. If NoA were more tightly integrated with the maps, it should have known that I had to move over three lanes and it should have executed three successive lane changes, assuming it detected no cars in those lanes.

 

[JohnnyG]

Found a new issue:

The Nav on Autopilot does not know double yellow line. I live in California. HOV lane and regular lane are divided by double yellow lines. You can only merge in or out of the HOV lane when there is an opening (dash line).

In numerous occasions on numbers of different freeways, NoA suggested lane change to HOV lane thru double yellow lane. Good that I need to confirm lane change at the moment.

Later, when it activates unassisted lane change, the car may just move in or out of HOV lane illegally.

We already know that it will suggest a lane change, even when it can't make the change quite yet (i.e. when it needs to get over, but there is a car next to you). In these cases, it just wants confirmation from you, but it won't actually initiate the physical lane change until it is allowed to safely.

That said, unless you actually actuated your turn signal or AP stalk to give it confirmation, and it initiated the lane change across the double solid lines, I don't think we can declare the sky is falling on this one quite yet.... You don't have enough plausible evidence at this point that it would make an illegal lane change if left unattended.

Of course I know it. That is why I said it is not a big deal now. But it will be an issue once ULC goes live.

Your scenerio is diff. Right now it may suggest lane change when there is a car next to u, the dividing line turns red. Even if I confirm, it won't change lane until it is safe. The car clearly knows what is going on

In my case here, i actually confirmed lane change to HOV lane thru double yellow lines. The car complied before I cancelled it.

My apologies... You originally only stated that it suggested the lane change to you, and that it was a good thing that you have to confirm, otherwise it would have made an illegal lane change.

Now you are saying that it did indeed make an illegal lane change.... Good to know....