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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

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Let’s recap.

Prompted by vehicles with 85KWH packs catching fire, Tesla pushed an update that attempted to diagnose affected packs. Once that was done, Tesla pushed another OTA update to place a limit the maximum charge voltage (dropping Vmax from 4.2 to 4.07V) on affected vehicles.

This had the effect of removing 10%+ of range from the affected vehicles. When questioned by owners, Tesla asserted that these updates were to protected the longevity of batteries and that the range loss was due to normal battery degradation.

Subsequent updates appear to have also reduced Supercharging speeds for those affected users.

The driving and ownership experience has changed as a result of these updates. I cannot get as far on a single charge anymore, and I have to spend longer charging.

Because this happened overnight (literally) and was instigated by Tesla, it is Tesla’s responsibility to resolve. So, what does a resolution look like?

EITHER A. Remove the Vmax capacity limit restoring the previous range for affected vehicles immediately
OR B. Replace the affected battery packs under warranty. These pack are not operating as they were before the update.

Tesla have said that the range loss only impacts a few customers. If this is true, then Tesla could have got ahead of this really quickly by reaching out to affected owners and offering replacement packs under warranty.

Would it have cost a fortune? Possibly not, because Tesla has options to mitigate the financial impact:

a. Repair the pack if that’s possible (e.g. it has one bad module)
b. Replace with a >255 mile 100% range 85 pack
c. Replace with a 90 pack and software lock (voltage capacity limit!) to 85KWH equivalent
d. Replace with a 100 pack and software lock (voltage capacity limit!) to 85KWH equivalent

In the cases of b, c and d Tesla can either recycle the batteries in the packs, or sell them in the 2nd user market as there is a high demand for Tesla batteries with the explicit proviso that the cells MUST not be charged greater then 4.1V

In the cases of c and d, Tesla could recoup a proportion of the replacement cost by offering to unlock the extra battery capacity for a fee to owners receiving these high capacity replacement packs. I would certainly consider paying in the future to unlock my battery to make the vehicle a 100D if the opportunity arose.

History is littered with examples of companies that handle “crisis” situations well by putting the customer first and doing the right thing by them. Tesla have behaved very poorly in this situation, and are still dragging their feet about doing the right thing by customers. Those same customers, many of whom supported them when they needed it in the early days.

I’d like to see the service centres proactively reaching out to affected customers offering resolution A or B above at the earliest possible moment as it’s still not too late for Tesla to win back customer loyalty and trust. But I do believe that the window for that is closing fast.
 
In these 150+ pages of discussions we have been trying to figure out what might have caused the cars/batteries to be affected while others are not. Actually the vast majority isn't affected. Looking at all kinds of different use patterns or battery versions we were not able to see a pattern. Some affected cars have supercharged a lot, others not, some have high miles others not so much. Different pack versions are affected.

Supercharging isn't a trigger. My car/batter isn't affected yet I have 230k miles on it and supercharged aprox 160k miles.
I agree it seems heavy Supercharging or heavy charging up to 100% is not the trigger. So it seems the answer lies elsewhere.

I was discussing this with a friend who has a 75D, which has a capped 85 battery. (Good setup). However he has suffered from both batterygate and chargegate. I assume his Vmax was reduced to cap it from 85 to 75, then capped further as a result of batterygate. They have since removed the 85-75 capping, and indeed his App now shows his car as a 85, but his capacity is still around 75, presumably due to the effect of batterygate capping. But that raises an interesting conclusion. If he had a 85 battery, capped to 75, then his car was in exactly the same position that those that lost capacity are now in. A battery operating at lower level due to cell capping. I think we all agree this is a healthier way to operate a battery. So why was his car selected for batterygate? The only plausible reason I can come up with is that there were a batch of slightly defective batteries to start with (a bit like there were a bunch of defective heaters in some cars).
 
OK, tonight my 90% just went to 223. Going to try 100% and should know tonight if I am back to 254 at full charge. I am on version 2019.28.2. I downloaded it this morning and it only charged to 216 at its 90% right after the download. So now tonight there is definite progress in the positive direction. I don't know if the charging curve is going back to normal yet though with Supercharging.

Update: Car charged to 247 miles @100% so it is clipped 7 miles from 254 that it was getting before software update 2019.24.4. Battery is still clipped but less clipped. No idea if Supercharger rate of charge has changed.
 
Update: Car charged to 247 miles @100% so it is clipped 7 miles from 254 that it was getting before software update 2019.24.4. Battery is still clipped but less clipped. No idea if Supercharger rate of charge has changed.
So for all those nervous folk (including me) that are suffering from Batterygate and have not downloaded any more updates for fear of downloading Chargegate, what do you do now. If an update solves Batterygate, and you get all or most of your range back, do you risk uploading Chargegate so that each trip requires a charge break long enough to read War and Peace, or do you live with Batterygate until such time as Chargegate is also solved! Hmm
 
So for all those nervous folk (including me) that are suffering from Batterygate and have not downloaded any more updates for fear of downloading Chargegate, what do you do now. If an update solves Batterygate, and you get all or most of your range back, do you risk uploading Chargegate so that each trip requires a charge break long enough to read War and Peace, or do you live with Batterygate until such time as Chargegate is also solved! Hmm
Just like you, I have no idea. Tesla is keeping us all in the dark so far. I am still waiting for them to give me and other owners the answers we deserve. Time to be upfront and communicate with us. I don't need them to notify me through the Press with ambiguities. I need them to contact me personally, telling me what the problems are, and how they are going to remedy those problem and make me/us whole again.
 
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No change to my car with the update still the same mileage 2019.28.2 version. I had lost 30 miles and that has stayed the same. I ordered a battery reader and waiting on correct cable then I can hopefully tell if capacity is higher or lower, and no I have not supercharged with the new update.
 
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Reactions: Guy V and Guillaume
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘hurts’ in this context, but if you’ve ever looked at pretty much any data sheet for these types of cells, you’d see a link between higher C rated charges and reduced cycle life. It may not specifically ‘damage’(hurt) the pack, but higher charge rates will certainly wear / degrade cells faster than lower charge rates. There is no free lunch.
Maybe on paper.
But with others Supercharging nore than me and less actual degradation. I can live with how our batteries behave.
This current issue again has nothing to do with degradation.
 
So for all those nervous folk (including me) that are suffering from Batterygate and have not downloaded any more updates for fear of downloading Chargegate, what do you do now. If an update solves Batterygate, and you get all or most of your range back, do you risk uploading Chargegate so that each trip requires a charge break long enough to read War and Peace, or do you live with Batterygate until such time as Chargegate is also solved! Hmm

I always update no matter what. If you are good at chess the lengthier game would mask the long charging time. Make sure you unplug when charge completes otherwise the game won't be free anymore.
 
The issue of slower supercharging is much harder to measure. Supercharging speed can vary based on many factors. All old 85s have been reduced to slower supercharging speed over the years. That's not a new or recent thing. I did see an additional reduction is speed which probably came with the 2019.16 update. It now takes almost twice as long to supercharge on a road trip going from one to the next supercharger. I mentioned the reduction to the service center over a year ago and they just said that's what happens with older batteries.


Blue is new 85 back in 2014
Red is aprox January 2019
Orange is most recent update
They now allow a quick peak up to 130 kW, but it drops down fast and lower than before. So when you plug in you see the higher peak rate, get excited that your old car now charges even faster.

chart2.png
 

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The issue of slower supercharging is much harder to measure. Supercharging speed can vary based on many factors. All old 85s have been reduced to slower supercharging speed over the years. That's not a new or recent thing. I did see an additional reduction is speed which probably came with the 2019.16 update. It now takes almost twice as long to supercharge on a road trip going from one to the next supercharger. I mentioned the reduction to the service center over a year ago and they just said that's what happens with older batteries.


Blue is new 85 back in 2014
Red is aprox January 2019
Orange is most recent update
They now allow a quick peak up to 130 kW, but it drops down fast and lower than before. So when you plug in you see the higher peak rate, get excited that your old car now charges even faster.

View attachment 440110

Thanks David. The data points on your car's chart exactly match my charging speeds.
 
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I too have seen some recovered capacity since 2019.28.2.
I have gotten back 2 kWh and 8 miles rated range.
Still have 6kWh and 24 miles to go.
But it is a start.

Again this shows this was not normal degradation and PURELY artificial software limitation.

I still HOPE this was never related to the fires or Lithium dendrites or plating.
Until Tesla opens up about this... we still have issues.
 
Hello Fellow Forum Members,

I have a December 2014 P85D that has been affected by the update. My range went from 249 @ 100% to 217 @ 100% over the course of 1 week in May 2019 (after update).

I took it to the service center and I have in writing their explanation of reducing my battery capacity over the software update.

From the service document:

Concern: Customer states: Range has drop from 219 miles @ 90% in May 2019 to 197 miles @ 90% in 1 month.
-NO REPAIRS NEEDED.-Wear is expected on the HV battery pack along with some alteration of performance.-We are aware that a very small percentage of owners who own older Model S and Model X vehicles may notice a small reduction in range when charging to a maximum state of charge.-This occurred following a software update that we released last month to protect the battery and improve battery longevity of Model S and X cars, and does not have any other impact to the vehicle. While charging behavior will always vary based on how a vehicle is driven, charged, vehicle age, and other factors, we will improve the impact on range for this small group of owners.

I also asked “how can I restore my vehicles full advertised functionality” their response was a laugh and “you can buy a new battery pack for $15000”

Rasmussen and lawyer, feel free to reach out, I would love to provide my evidence for your case.

Best regards,
Zad451kw
 
I always update no matter what. If you are good at chess the lengthier game would mask the long charging time. Make sure you unplug when charge completes otherwise the game won't be free anymore.
Personally living with a loss of Range may be easier to live with than doubling my charge time every time I charge. But everyone’s circumstances are different. If only I had the option!
 
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