Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[w3bCraw1er]

Sorry guys if this is answered somewhere in this long thread but I didn't go through the whole conversation...

I have Mid Range Model 3 which I bought in Dec 2018. Everything was great for the range (265) for about until April-May 2019 and then range suddenly dropped to just 250. In the beginning I used to charge 80% and it used to show 212 miles and after range drop, it only shows close to 200 or even lower (195+). Today the first time I charged to 100% due to power outage risk in Nor Cal, I only got 249. Stated range for Mid-Range is 265 so I am losing 15 miles and I only have under 5K miles on this car. Is this something other people have seen and taken to Tesla? Are they helping with this or just saying this is software related? I mean my car is now basically Standard Plus (240 miles range) and I am not happy with this range drop.

 

[bluestreak]

I don't have access to the diagnostics port of my 2013 P85 (180k Kms), but do suspect it's been capped.

So over the last few weeks I've been keeping track of what the MCU shows as energy consumption during driving and energy uptake during charging. Extrapolating these to 100% I get roughly:

- 73 to 74 kWh to CHARGE 0% to 100%
- 63 to 65 kWh to DRIVE 100% to 0%

This difference doesn't surprise me but now I'm unsure what should be my reference. I am aware there's always been a buffer of 4 kWh within the nominal capacity of 81.5 kWh so if the CHARGING figure is the reference, I'd assume the difference of ~4 kWh to be normal degradation.

If however the reference is the DRIVING consumption, then that'd mean a loss of almost 15 kWh (18%) which strongly suggests capping.

Can someone please clarify this? Thanks!

I would have thought that this is just battery charging efficiency. The car is measuring how many kWh it puts into the battery, then how many you get back when you drive. Batteries are not 100% efficient, so on your car appears that it takes about 73 kWh into the batteries to provide 63 kWh energy out, so charging is about 86% efficient. And of course some of that missing 10 kWh was probably consumed by pumps and cooling while you were charging so charge efficiency somewhat better than 86%.

 

[bart513]

So is it back to where it was before? I too noticed a decrease in miles when charging.

 

[Droschke]

Installed (V10) 2019.32.12.8 today. Isn't great that my blank release note doesn't tell me what I've gotten? Rebooting, off/on the car doesn't bring the release notes to life either.

They need to email the release notes.

 

[Chaserr]

Several Model 3 owners have mentioned losing significant chunks of range, even Bjorn. Some have mentioned losing power. None has shown a decrease in voltage yet and that's the only way to verify with 100% certainty that your battery has been capped. Tesla will tell you "your batteryis fine, it's better than average, everything is great!" right up until you need a tow from a failed battery so there's no point in asking. Check volts, if your cells can't charge to 4.2V they are capped. If you don't know volts there are other ways range can be decreased.

They need to email the release notes.

Or maybe QA test an MCU1 vehicle and point out to Elon that the broken browser also causes broken release notes. Maybe ask to get that fixed like they did on the Model 3.

 

[CuriousG]

It's not. He is saying he lost 12 miles with one update.

HIGHLY doubtful, and questionable at best, the person has lost only 2 miles on a 4 year old car. How many miles are on the car, how frequently do they charge?

 

[CuriousG]

And to show it's not a fluke, another one but going through Livermore to get to Merced in stead of Pacheco Pass:

The drop in elevation going that direction certainly helps.

 

[sorka]

The drop in elevation going that direction certainly helps.

It's an increase, not decrease.

Alviso(3 feet above sea level) to Merced (174 feet at my address) is 171 foot net increase. That said, over 130 miles it's net flat given that the destination is only 0.025% higher vs the distance.

 

[Droschke]

HIGHLY doubtful, and questionable at best, the person has lost only 2 miles on a 4 year old car. How many miles are on the car, how frequently do they charge?

2 miles?

Before the software fully charge is 238 miles, after software update its down to 226 miles and the fan running make it loss 1 mile per hour, and fan keep running non stop for the whole while I parked the car inside garage.

238 - 226= 12 miles after one update.

What am I missing?

 

[lightningltd]

Sorry guys if this is answered somewhere in this long thread but I didn't go through the whole conversation...

I have Mid Range Model 3 which I bought in Dec 2018. Everything was great for the range (265) for about until April-May 2019 and then range suddenly dropped to just 250. In the beginning I used to charge 80% and it used to show 212 miles and after range drop, it only shows close to 200 or even lower (195+). Today the first time I charged to 100% due to power outage risk in Nor Cal, I only got 249. Stated range for Mid-Range is 265 so I am losing 15 miles and I only have under 5K miles on this car. Is this something other people have seen and taken to Tesla? Are they helping with this or just saying this is software related? I mean my car is now basically Standard Plus (240 miles range) and I am not happy with this range drop.

You will likely get Bull responses like...
"This is normal degradation"
"The RATED miles can fluctuate based on driving habits"
"You must be supercharging too much"
And
"When the moon is in the Seventh House, And Jupiter aligns with Mars, We will change your firmware, And take your rated miles. This is the dawning of the age of BatteryGate, age of BatteryGate..."
(probably the only accurate explanation so far)

 

[Nick70d]

2 miles?



238 - 226= 12 miles after one update.

What am I missing?

Yup 12 miles, its a bit far off from normal battery degrade over the time.
I'm gonna try to drive the car down to 10% then home charge to 100% for 3 times to see if any increasing as the tech support told.
For the fan running, I just realize after going home from work and tried to power off the car for atleast 3 minutes while i'm on phone with the tech, i dont know what he did, but the noise/fan running is gone(for now). I will keep it update. The car seem not loosing mile after call tech support.

 

[DJRas]

I don't have access to the diagnostics port of my 2013 P85 (180k Kms), but do suspect it's been capped.

So over the last few weeks I've been keeping track of what the MCU shows as energy consumption during driving and energy uptake during charging. Extrapolating these to 100% I get roughly:

- 73 to 74 kWh to CHARGE 0% to 100%
- 63 to 65 kWh to DRIVE 100% to 0%

This difference doesn't surprise me but now I'm unsure what should be my reference. I am aware there's always been a buffer of 4 kWh within the nominal capacity of 81.5 kWh so if the CHARGING figure is the reference, I'd assume the difference of ~4 kWh to be normal degradation.

If however the reference is the DRIVING consumption, then that'd mean a loss of almost 15 kWh (18%) which strongly suggests capping.

Can someone please clarify this? Thanks!

The energy added in kWh is incorrect.
I see on extreme charging sessions where the display showed 62 kWh but reading the BMS says only 58 kWh had been added. Teslafi shows the same 62 kWh added but 64+ kWh used.
I am charging from 2 miles to 213 miles (95%).
I'll detail it tomorrow.

 

[DJRas]

Sorry guys if this is answered somewhere in this long thread but I didn't go through the whole conversation...

I have Mid Range Model 3 which I bought in Dec 2018. Everything was great for the range (265) for about until April-May 2019 and then range suddenly dropped to just 250. In the beginning I used to charge 80% and it used to show 212 miles and after range drop, it only shows close to 200 or even lower (195+). Today the first time I charged to 100% due to power outage risk in Nor Cal, I only got 249. Stated range for Mid-Range is 265 so I am losing 15 miles and I only have under 5K miles on this car. Is this something other people have seen and taken to Tesla? Are they helping with this or just saying this is software related? I mean my car is now basically Standard Plus (240 miles range) and I am not happy with this range drop.

Hi, I will be in Fremont next week. I would like to read your car to add to our data. I now have the cable to read Model 3s.

 

[10CVOL]

Has this been happening to Owners of the MX? I have noticed that my car says its charged and the range is shorter that it used to be. I thought it was just the setting of the charge limit I have, but listening to others on this thread, I think my MX may be capped. I have a 17 MX 100D.

 

[DJRas]

Has this been happening to Owners of the MX? I have noticed that my car says its charged and the range is shorter that it used to be. I thought it was just the setting of the charge limit I have, but listening to others on this thread, I think my MX may be capped. I have a 17 MX 100D.

I haven't seen that recent MX yet.
I know of one MX 90

 

[FooFenix]

The energy added in kWh is incorrect.
I see on extreme charging sessions where the display showed 62 kWh but reading the BMS says only 58 kWh had been added. Teslafi shows the same 62 kWh added but 64+ kWh used.
I am charging from 2 miles to 213 miles (95%).
I'll detail it tomorrow.

Thanks @DJRas. But honestly I'm in fact really looking for a YES/NO reply ;-)

Do you think the figures I posted for energy consumed while driving (1 trip, during the day with mild temperatures, no HVAC) are more likely to come from a capped 85 pack, or not capped? Or too inconclusive?

I should add that I have the feeling that I've lost range and power as well but not having the diagnostics cable I cannot be sure.

Thanks!

 

[RobPet]

So I haven't seen that noted elsewhere (maybe (I missed it), when I charge my P85D over 90% (supercharger or not, doesn't matter) the coolant pump runs for hours (yes hours!) with the car otherwise sitting idle. It is a problem because it knocks off available kms just sitting there. I only charge over 90% before a long trip and now I can't delay between charging and driving or I just lose the kms again. Have raised with Tesla, they say car is behaving "normally".

Interesting. This is what I have noticed as well. For a trip I AC charged to 95%, then forgot to lower the limit to 90% when I got back home, so after the charge overnight the battery charged to 95% again. However, during the day (didn't have time to take it out unfortunately) the 'vampire drain' was insane. By lunch it was already back to 90% and then sit happily for the remainder of the day at that percentage. So that 5% drain in a couple hours could have been the pumps working continuously...

 

[jaitch]

Several Model 3 owners have mentioned losing significant chunks of range, even Bjorn. Some have mentioned losing power. None has shown a decrease in voltage yet and that's the only way to verify with 100% certainty that your battery has been capped. Tesla will tell you "your batteryis fine, it's better than average, everything is great!" right up until you need a tow from a failed battery so there's no point in asking. Check volts, if your cells can't charge to 4.2V they are capped. If you don't know volts there are other ways range can be decreased...............

Interestingly TeslaBjorn just added a vid that shows 4.17/4.18 volts at 100%. Not sure if that is a settled post 100% value or even if that makes a difference.

 

[CuriousG]

238 - 226= 12 miles after one update.

What am I missing?

You're missing the part that he has a 70D which is 240 miles brand new. The claim is after an update, they lost 12 miles. So you're telling me that in ~4 yrs time, only 2 miles have degraded on that battery? The more likely scenario is the person got the car new with 238 miles when charging to 100% and now just notices it with this thread that people are losing miles fast.

How do I know? I have a 70D. My first charge at 90% was 215 miles which equates around 239 miles 100%. Degradation before this whole fiasco I was at 206 miles 90% so I've lost 9 miles degradation during that time. So the 12 miles is well within natural degradation. Sure a person can lose 12 miles after an update but that does not appear to be the likely scenario here.

edit: So I just checked my TeslaFi history and at ~37k miles, like the user claims in another post which is their current odometer, my 90% was at 210 miles which is ~6 miles degradation.

 

[CuriousG]

It's an increase, not decrease.

Alviso(3 feet above sea level) to Merced (174 feet at my address) is 171 foot net increase. That said, over 130 miles it's net flat given that the destination is only 0.025% higher vs the distance.

I'm talking about from Livermore to I-5.