Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Gixx1300R]

Talking back and forth amongst ourselves will get nothing accomplished. Here is a link to file a complaint if you are effected by battery gate or charge gate

File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

 

[fbitz777]

Same car (85D) with a bit more millage (65k). Started charging at 60kw today at 29%SOC, battery warmed up and exterior temperature at 9 Celsius. And of course noone next to me. On top of that, Tesla seems to be constantly improving their lies. Apart from the same typical range, the car is now incorrectly giving me way off charging time estinates. 29-90% SOC estimate was 45 mins. 30 mins later with SOC at 62% (39kw), the estimate is now 30 mins. The car took 1:10h to do a 29-90% charge.

I never had the estimated time match the actually charging time at SC....yours went from 45 to 70 minutes?
Are you saying that there was a time ago where these actually matched?

 

[johnman10]

I never had the estimated time match the actually charging time at SC....yours went from 45 to 70 minutes?
Are you saying that there was a time ago where these actually matched?

Yes. 29-90% in 45 minutes sounds about right in the good old days. The calculator always seemed to be stealing around 5 minutes to rush you a bit to go back to the car, but that was always the case. This is different. The clock is clearly tampered with now. No one shared the charger with me during the entire charging session. No charging hiccups. Had a smooth charging session with the numbers mentioned above

 

[AmpedRealtor]

2015 85D 125k miles. Battery capped and charging throttled. Good God it's borderline unusable for any trip requiring a supercharge session.

Pulled up at 37%. Battery fully warm (90 min drive to here). Outside temp 60 degrees F. No shared charger. Maxed out at 62kw, and started to fall quickly. Now at 75% and 36kw.

Just horrid.

The worst development, IMHO, is that Tesla's new warranty language (effective 1/29/2020) allows Tesla to do this to all of its vehicles purchased after this language went into effect:

"Your vehicle updates its software wirelessly, constantly providing new features and improvements for your vehicle, including updates to protect and improve Battery longevity. Any noticeable changes to the performance of the Battery due to these software updates are NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty."
​

This doesn't bode well for the rest of the fleet or for those who have been capped (#batterygate), but do not yet qualify for a replacement. #chargegate be damned, apparently.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Talking back and forth amongst ourselves will get nothing accomplished. Here is a link to file a complaint if you are effected by battery gate or charge gate

File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

I have been affected by #chargegate, but was not aware that people suffering from reduced charging speed (but not capped) were being encouraged to file NHTSA complaints. #chargegate in and of itself is not a safety concern, is it?

 

[Gixx1300R]

The worst development, IMHO, is that Tesla's new warranty language (effective 1/29/2020) allows Tesla to do this to all of its vehicles purchased after this language went into effect:

"Your vehicle updates its software wirelessly, constantly providing new features and improvements for your vehicle, including updates to protect and improve Battery longevity. Any noticeable changes to the performance of the Battery due to these software updates are NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty."
​

This doesn't bode well for the rest of the fleet or for those who have been capped (#batterygate), but do not yet qualify for a replacement. #chargegate be damned, apparently.

That is why I am canceling my Cyber Truck order and going with Rivian

 

[Gixx1300R]

I have been affected by #chargegate, but was not aware that people suffering from reduced charging speed (but not capped) were being encouraged to file NHTSA complaints. #chargegate in and of itself is not a safety concern, is it?

Reduced charging is to prevent car fires, the defective equipment still remains in your vehicle. Safety concern on your part.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Reduced charging is to prevent car fires, the defective equipment still remains in your vehicle. Safety concern on your part.

Thank you.

 

[tga]

Reduced charging is to prevent car fires, the defective equipment still remains in your vehicle. Safety concern on your part.

That's an unfounded assumption; we don't know that. Voltage capping may be sufficient to prevent fires (assuming that's why the caps were introduced in the first place), and charge rate limiting may be to avoid further damage/degradation and push replacement past the 8 year warranty.

 

[fbitz777]

That's an unfounded assumption; we don't know that. Voltage capping may be sufficient to prevent fires (assuming that's why the caps were introduced in the first place), and charge rate limiting may be to avoid further damage/degradation and push replacement past the 8 year warranty.

And Regen limitations/ more aggressive battery warm ups were for?

 

[tga]

And Regen limitations/ battery warm ups were for?

The same reason supercharging was limited.

 

[fbitz777]

The same reason supercharging was limited.

Not so sure since these were imposed on new cars too and I am assuming that newer cars have not seen supercharging being limited (except when warming up battery).

 

[Gixx1300R]

and charge rate limiting may be to avoid further damage

Like I said, defective product still installed in the car. There have already been Tesla fires while supercharging, Either too high of a voltage from the BMS or defectives cells the end effect is the same. Something is defective and placing a software fix on hardware is a band aid, not a fix

 

[Paulo Soares]

Hi there, although I life in Europe and have a European model Tesla I also face this slow charging issue. But I also want to share the bug reporting option option. Every time you puch de small car left under in you touch screen it will send a report to Tesla Service. Kind of diagnostic report.

View days ago I I activated this a view times while super charging. My car doesn't charge faster than 60kW.

Today I received feedback from Tesla ;

Complaint: Supercharging is slower then expected. Please check this for me. 100KW was this before and now its 50KW.


Good day, we have started the diagnosis as you requested. We have diagnosed the session you have mentioned; 2020-
02-15 12:56:17 (UTC +1). Starting SOC: 90.8 %Final SOC: 94.3 %SOC Charged: 3.5 %Note: Starting SOC high.Further
investigations note: As batteries age and are used, certain aspects of their performance will change over time. Your
vehicles onboard software continually monitors your battery and manages it to ensure its performance and safety. As a
result, you may experience charge rate reduction when the cells are too cold, when the state of charge is nearly full, and also when the conditions of the cell change gradually with age and usage. Due to physical and chemical changes inside of the cells, the peak charging rates of the battery will begin to decline slightly after a very large number of high-rate charging
sessions. If high-rate charging continues, the charging duration will continue to extend due to a reduction in peak ccharging current. After further high-rate charging, the peak charging current will not decline any further and charging time will not increase any further, regardless of charging usage.


So, what does he try to say? That it's normal when battery ages? Or because the battery was cold?

 

[Az_Rael]

Starting SOC: 90.8 %Final SOC: 94.3 %SOC Charged: 3.5 %

You need to send them one for when you started at a much lower battery state (like 20%). 50kW is probably normal at 90% battery level due to the taper.

 

[maximizese]

Like I said, defective product still installed in the car. There have already been Tesla fires while supercharging, Either too high of a voltage from the BMS or defectives cells the end effect is the same. Something is defective and placing a software fix on hardware is a band aid, not a fix

I would love more transparency from Tesla and the investigators. I know there were at least two fires that occurred while Supercharging, and that there were at least two spontaneous fires that occurred while parked after Supercharging. All of these events occurred before the June 2019 software updates that have widely caused a small amount of range reduction and significantly more time required to Supercharge beyond 60% SOC. We've never been clear on what has caused this or why, but some have been deduced that a drop in the maximum individual cell voltage through software has been responsible for the range reduction, and the longer Supercharging sessions is a result of some software limitation on each car.

I was digging through some older posts from 2017 and some folks were under the assumption that slower Supercharging speeds might not necessary be due to just each individual car's software, but the hardware and programming at the Supercharger might be a source of restriction as well. Some cited high charger wand temperature as a correction with less than peak SuC rates regardless of pairing/SOC%/battery temperature.

I know from my last 4 SuC sessions that something is wrong and I'll never quite pinpoint why sometimes I'll get 127kW or why I'll only get 57/58kW on our 2013 S85. My last two sessions were at Urban chargers and I plugged in immediately after another user was charging. The wand handles were hot (maybe 130F with an ambient temp of 60F) and my charging rate peaked at 57kW and took about an hour to go from 15-80% SOC. Another time I was at an unpaired V2 stall and hit 127kW for about 90 seconds before settling down to ~97kW after a few minutes.

I'll never know what to expect when I plug the SuC wand in and I'm always curious to know what's really going on. I'm sure we'll have some information in the future whether the company discloses, an employee leaks, or the fine people of TMC are able to put the pieces together. But as for now we have a lot of opacity from Tesla, anecdotal testimonies, and assumptions.

 

[DILIE]

speaking of, just noticed on Sunday that yellow dashed lines and yellow triangle for regen showed up during driving at around 60% SOC in 40ish deg F weather. I had already been driving for 30-40mins, and left from charger with about SOC 90%, so battery should have been fully warmed up. Prior to this point on the same drive, regen seemed to operate as expected with no yellow lines or triangle. Yellow lines and triangle showed up multiple times within a few minutes. Then it stopped and operated as expected since then. Most of the trip was downhill, but due to slow traffic i barely saw any positive change in rated miles - one time for 2mi...typically on this trip i would get 2x 4-6mi regen, so it doesn't seem regen system was somehow overloaded.
Never had this happen before. It used to show up only in either cold weather, when battery is not warm, or SOC is over 92%.
Anyone else with this experience?

Regen has been a total psychopath for me lately. None at all @ 50F. A little at 40. None at 35. Partial at 65. Full at 45. Just all over the place.

 

[Guy V]

That's an unfounded assumption; we don't know that. Voltage capping may be sufficient to prevent fires (assuming that's why the caps were introduced in the first place), and charge rate limiting may be to avoid further damage/degradation and push replacement past the 8 year warranty.

The ball is now in Tesla's court to show otherwise.

 

[JustADude]

Could someone pull the fuse to the MCU and try supercharging?

My MCU died a few weeks ago and I swear the car was faster and actually charged to 100% instead of 92-95%

I'm wondering if when the MCU is dead the car will pull the config from stock.

 

[First EV]

That's an unfounded assumption; we don't know that. Voltage capping may be sufficient to prevent fires (assuming that's why the caps were introduced in the first place), and charge rate limiting may be to avoid further damage/degradation and push replacement past the 8 year warranty.

How do we know its not both to prevent fires and reduce wear on a worn out pack to get past the warranty period?