Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Ulrich]

Would you post the screenshot of that statement here please (even though it's in German)?

here you go: for the first time Tesla seem to admit it´s purposedly done by a software update. 40% from one day to the other is a mess:

 

[Chaserr]

When we replace battery packs under warranty, we guarantee to install a pack with the same characteristics as the one that was removed. (not as it was when new)

This shows why and how tothey profit from software caps. If they can cripple our batteries badly enough _before_ replacing them, this policy claims they could use a couple of AAA duracells as a warranty replacement. After all, they are only going to install a battery with the same characteristics as the one that was removed, not as itit andwas before failure but as it was removed after failure so their replacements can be just as bad. According to Tesla. Arbitration would strike that down, but if they detect imminent warranty costs to them, capping early establishes the battery is worse on a "baseline" it's all about money to them.

 

[gmo43]

The only thing I have seen is that they have filed a motion to protect discovery from public disclosure. So I would say that doesn't bode well for mediation coming to a successful resolution. (But hey there is still a few more days to come to an agreement or extend it further.)

Interesting.... Hope they take it to court then.

 

[Regulator]

This shows why and how tothey profit from software caps. If they can cripple our batteries badly enough _before_ replacing them, this policy claims they could use a couple of AAA duracells as a warranty replacement. After all, they are only going to install a battery with the same characteristics as the one that was removed, not as itit andwas before failure but as it was removed after failure so their replacements can be just as bad. According to Tesla. Arbitration would strike that down, but if they detect imminent warranty costs to them, capping early establishes the battery is worse on a "baseline" it's all about money to them.

Another way of reading this is they can't install the exact same battery components as were from several years ago. As long as your 285 mile battery pack is replaced by another 285 mile battery pack with warranty, why do care if the pack is a current version?

 

[mymagiccarpet]

The only thing I have seen is that they have filed a motion to protect discovery from public disclosure. So I would say that doesn't bode well for mediation coming to a successful resolution. (But hey there is still a few more days to come to an agreement or extend it further.)

Would this indicate they are looking to settle quietly with the plaintiff?

 

[rafacq]

quick update from me. I have driven quite a bit since they got me. Aprox 43,000 miles. Range has been dropping rapidly since then. Much faster than it every did in the previous 6 years. My cell balance is also getting worse fast. I have been monitoring it for many years and it was always around 3-5 mV when charge to around 90%. It has been pretty consistent. Now it's about 22 mV at 90%. I also feel like power is lower than it used to be. The car still refuses to charge to 100% most of the time. On a supercharger it usually goes to 99% but on AC anywhere between 95 and 99. Charge rate at the supercharger is a mixed bag but the trend is also down on average.

Keep in mind this graph is almost 200k miles and 4 years of data.
View attachment 526076

I recently took my 2015 S85D to Tesla SC for an alert about my parking brake. While visiting with the advisor I commented about charging speeds and speed performance degradation. I told him I recently started noticing slower supercharging and when tested with a Dragy my car is no longer capable of 0-60 MOH in 4.2 seconds. I know get more like 4.9 to 5.1 seconds.

The advisor told me Tesla has done this to improve the battery life of the older S cars. From reading other comments I don’t seem to be the only one to notice these changes.

Since I intend to keep my S85D for a long time, I have no problem with these changes.

PD. We have a Cybertruck reservation. It will be our second Tesla! It will not replace the S.

 

[DILIE]

Since I intend to keep my S85D for a long time, I have no problem with these changes.

It's good that you have no problem with the changes, since you have no choice.

It's also charitable that you take their word for how it improves battery life, despite their refusal to provide any information showing how and why battery life is now so much shorter than originally planned that it requires reducing range by 15+% and performance by 17% with no compensation, apology, or explanation to the owner, other than "it will last longer." <I lamely attempted to address that run-on sentence several times, but gave up. Long week.>

Note that I don't fault your position, you have every right to establish your own priorities on performance and charging rate (and likely range, have you noticed any change?) It's just surprising. There haven't been many owners here who took this change well.

And it really is "choice" that is the key. If Tesla had put a switch in the software for "Battery Management" with options "Extended Life" and "Original Performance, Range, and Charging" at least we would all be able to set our own priorities.

Maybe a set of checkboxes would be even better. "I'll have Range and Charging please, let the Porches lead the way!"
Just an example though, I'd check all three.

 

[MP3Mike]

Would this indicate they are looking to settle quietly with the plaintiff?

No, I would think it is the opposite of that. To me it signals that mediation is failing and that they are preparing to go on to the next phase which would be discovery before the trial. And they don't want the information shared in discovery to be made public.

 

[Saguarojoe]

quick update from me. I have driven quite a bit since they got me. Aprox 43,000 miles. Range has been dropping rapidly since then. Much faster than it every did in the previous 6 years. My cell balance is also getting worse fast. I have been monitoring it for many years and it was always around 3-5 mV when charge to around 90%. It has been pretty consistent. Now it's about 22 mV at 90%. I also feel like power is lower than it used to be. The car still refuses to charge to 100% most of the time. On a supercharger it usually goes to 99% but on AC anywhere between 95 and 99. Charge rate at the supercharger is a mixed bag but the trend is also down on average.

Keep in mind this graph is almost 200k miles and 4 years of data.
View attachment 526076

Have you tried battery rebalancing? Charge as close to 100% as possible run down to less than 20% repeat total of 3 times. Worked on my M3

 

[johnman10]

It's good that you have no problem with the changes, since you have no choice.

It's also charitable that you take their word for how it improves battery life, despite their refusal to provide any information showing how and why battery life is now so much shorter than originally planned that it requires reducing range by 15+% and performance by 17% with no compensation, apology, or explanation to the owner, other than "it will last longer." <I lamely attempted to address that run-on sentence several times, but gave up. Long week.>

Note that I don't fault your position, you have every right to establish your own priorities on performance and charging rate (and likely range, have you noticed any change?) It's just surprising. There haven't been many owners here who took this change well.

And it really is "choice" that is the key. If Tesla had put a switch in the software for "Battery Management" with options "Extended Life" and "Original Performance, Range, and Charging" at least we would all be able to set our own priorities.

Maybe a set of checkboxes would be even better. "I'll have Range and Charging please, let the Porches lead the way!"
Just an example though, I'd check all three.

I think it is fair to all agree that the battery extended life is a very legit excuse and nothing more. The truthful dilemma is more like: original performance, range and charging? Or the possibility to become a real human barbeque inside your car?

 

[not2smartpa]

An ICE vehicle is sold with a range of mileage — no guarantee of the high being consistent, or the low for that matter. granted there were folks who found issues with the high values that were never seen, and that got settled in court. but in this case, I am not hearing why this should be treated any differently. Last I checked, there are minimal guarantees on batteries, beyond the claims of 10 year batteries for smoke detectors, and will someone trigger a court case when it dies at 9 years and 360 days?

lastly, when you buy the car, you do so knowing that they can change how it works with a software upgrade. same as understanding your car is not full self-driving and won’t be.

I don’t disagree that you spent good money and expect a quality result, but get a grip on it. There will continue to be unexpected, unwanted surprises as well as pleasant ones. you just have to hope that the plus outweighs the minus.

 

[Droschke]

An ICE vehicle is sold with a range of mileage — no guarantee of the high being consistent, or the low for that matter. granted there were folks who found issues with the high values that were never seen, and that got settled in court. but in this case, I am not hearing why this should be treated any differently. Last I checked, there are minimal guarantees on batteries, beyond the claims of 10 year batteries for smoke detectors, and will someone trigger a court case when it dies at 9 years and 360 days?

lastly, when you buy the car, you do so knowing that they can change how it works with a software upgrade. same as understanding your car is not full self-driving and won’t be.

I don’t disagree that you spent good money and expect a quality result, but get a grip on it. There will continue to be unexpected, unwanted surprises as well as pleasant ones. you just have to hope that the plus outweighs the minus.

You are missing the whole point of this issue. I suggest you focus on the title of this thread, especially the word "Sudden" (read it as intentional by the manufacturer). Also, reading the entire post#1 of this thread would be very useful for you.

 

[Droschke]

Have you tried battery rebalancing? Charge as close to 100% as possible run down to less than 20% repeat total of 3 times. Worked on my M3

This thread would have been 11,000+ posts shorter if you have offered your recommendation much earlier .

 

[johnman10]

An ICE vehicle is sold with a range of mileage — no guarantee of the high being consistent, or the low for that matter. granted there were folks who found issues with the high values that were never seen, and that got settled in court. but in this case, I am not hearing why this should be treated any differently. Last I checked, there are minimal guarantees on batteries, beyond the claims of 10 year batteries for smoke detectors, and will someone trigger a court case when it dies at 9 years and 360 days?

lastly, when you buy the car, you do so knowing that they can change how it works with a software upgrade. same as understanding your car is not full self-driving and won’t be.

I don’t disagree that you spent good money and expect a quality result, but get a grip on it. There will continue to be unexpected, unwanted surprises as well as pleasant ones. you just have to hope that the plus outweighs the minus.

You buy a BMW M3 with say 450 HP, 60l tank and 400 mile range. You bring your car for service and they give it back to you with 400HP, 30L tank and 360 miles range (random numbers just for argument's sake, since supercharging cannot be translated to ICE). All that within the warranty period. They tell you that they did that, without asking you, for your car to last longer and this thing just happens to be some weeks after 10 M3 engines exploded after some drag races. They also claim that even if they reduced your power to 350 HP, power output is not covered by warranty. You get a grip on it, open a bottle of wine trying to convince yourself that it can happen and you go to bed trying to forget about it.

 

[JRP3]

(random numbers just for argument's sake, since supercharging cannot be translated to ICE).

They crimp your gas fill tube down to the size of a straw?

 

[doctorwho]

Update. After a pack failure 2 months ago, Tesla Australia has rung me to say that my new battery has arrived. I'm not sure whether it's new or 'reconditioned', I'm not even sure that I'll be able to pick the car up and exchange the loaner for months as we are likely to have a Covid lockdown here next week, and I'm 320km away from the service centre anyway

 

[Keshk]

I recently took my 2015 S85D to Tesla SC for an alert about my parking brake. While visiting with the advisor I commented about charging speeds and speed performance degradation. I told him I recently started noticing slower supercharging and when tested with a Dragy my car is no longer capable of 0-60 MOH in 4.2 seconds. I know get more like 4.9 to 5.1 seconds.

The advisor told me Tesla has done this to improve the battery life of the older S cars. From reading other comments I don’t seem to be the only one to notice these changes.

Since I intend to keep my S85D for a long time, I have no problem with these changes.

PD. We have a Cybertruck reservation. It will be our second Tesla! It will not replace the S.

I wouldn't rationalize that at all. If you want your sd85d to drive only around town, that is your decision. If you want to make out of town trips, your 85 will not be of use.
Is that what you bargained for when you bought your car?

 

[ColonelRHS]

I was actually thinking about buying a new S later on this year. I began reading posts regarding this model and asking S owners their pros and cons. I have heard from others about this loss of range, and some other issues. I thought this was the premier car of Tesla and by now should be problem-free. Another Model 3 or a Y is now on my wish list.

 

[kavyboy]

I was actually thinking about buying a new S later on this year. I began reading posts regarding this model and asking S owners their pros and cons. I have heard from others about this loss of range, and some other issues. I thought this was the premier car of Tesla and by now should be problem-free. Another Model 3 or a Y is now on my wish list.

There's no reason to believe that those models won't also have the same things happen to them after a while... or even ten minutes after you drive it off the lot. Set expectations accordingly.

 

[JRP3]

Just do a lease instead of buying, or if you buy just trade it back in after a few years. Battery tech will only get better.