The capacity dropped towards the A variant rated capacity as a result of their other changes, but the overall chemistry is closer to the B variant. Some internal docs I've seen over the years even refer to them as "NCR18650BT", presumably to denote the Tesla variant of the NCR18650B.
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
The capacity dropped towards the A variant rated capacity as a result of their other changes, but the overall chemistry is closer to the B variant. Some internal docs I've seen over the years even refer to them as "NCR18650BT", presumably to denote the Tesla variant of the NCR18650B.
islandbayy
Active Member
zzzzoeffff
Member
I disagree, another objective way to find out if the car is capacity and/or charge capped is putting back the January 2019 software on the car. In my humble opinion that is thé easiest way, because Tesla holds all the cards in the latest software, none of the numbers match up. I can charge (slow) from 0 to 100% and this only takes 68.5kWh of power from the electricity net, while the car nicely indicaties 100% charged with 410km range (5% less compared to new)... But it is a model S 85! So 20kWh missing and still able to do the full range according to the software, but in reality even at 185Wh/km the real range is 300km.
I would gladly drop all new improvements since begin 2019 to get range and charging back. It is a car, that's wat they sold, that's what we bought, not a farting/game console.
airborne spoon
Active Member
the 85 packs were 77.5kWh useable at brand new and most packs are around 70kWh now. mine is at 68.7kWh when 100% so were still only at like 13% degradation over new which isn't that much when other people are at 15-20% and tesla still says their packs are fine. be happy you're only at 13%
ResHacker
Member
Yes, I also have on my S 85D 67kWh nominal, 63 usable, while approx 60 is possible to withdraw. Target voltage capped to 4,1V, that's 10% SOC loss and slower charging too.
Hey!
End of last year I've upgraded to 2020.48.37.8 from 2019.12.1.1 since I was scheduled to replace the 12V battery and the tegra board. Not having planned to drive much I even updated to 2021.24.28 5th March and stuck to it until early April. Then two bigger trips were planned and before them I went back to 2019.12.1.1 - The Roundtrip of 1800km over Eastern with it went well, weather was next to optimal for driving the car, not to warm yet warm enough w/o heating/cooling necessary.
With 2019.12.1.1 the old charging characteristic was back instantly, I also noticed higher charge rates when comparing SuC v2 vs. v3 sessions.
As wk057 already wrote, the better charging could be due to the sdditinal temperature sensor in the Charger handle. From what i can see while comparing multiple v2 / v3 charging sessions from myself, the v3 is faster and at ~40% SoC they come to a match.
v3:
v2:
While using ABRP classic and planning ahead the whole route on my mobile I am prepared in a comfortable way:
- Strarting ABRP classic on my mobile, logging in and planning the route with all necessary waypoints and playing around with max speed to optimize driving vs charging duration etc. until I am satsfied, then saving the plan.
- Now before driving I open the link to ABRP in my tesla browser favorites (1), confirming usage of my position and login with my ABRP credentials (=> show settings => show more settings). Now I can select the saved plan, confirm the settings and plan the route. In the "real-time Info screen" be sure to use the no-map-mode
Note (1): To operate the browser in Tesla MCUv1 with adequate reaction time, the car should be "off", the CD map set to satelite view and traffic off with no active routing. If it still lacks e.g. during replanning at a SuC while charging, opening the sketchpad before opening the browser should do the trick.
Sidenote: You may recall, with 2019.12.1.1 the browser app was able to use the lower half of the window, therefore I can use ABRP in the browser app while also routing to the next SuC with the Navi App quite comfortable.
My S85 from 2015 w/ >250000km "suffers" severly from the reduced supercharge rates. I guess this is partly due to more than 99% DC charging according to my car. Yet in reality roughly 35% of these DC charging was through CHAdeMO with a max rate of 41kW. I presume that this is significantly less stressing, but the BMS is not able to distinguish due to a lack of data, hence tapering the charge rate utmost to be on the secure side :-(
Since Corona forced me into working from home I drive way less, so I usually charge once a week to 94% soc at the local SuC and later at home after some shopping the car will be sitting at 88%. Then, over the course of the week I drive until I reach 15% or less and let it sight at least over night and charge at the SuC next morning, the circle starts again.
That said I am quite confident that my S85 BMS does not miscalculate the capacity at the lower end
And before someone starts telling me, that their time is too precious for sitting in the car for free supercharging, either I do this on a workday and fill the time with conference calls etc. So basically I get paid while charging, lucky me! Or during my freetime I take a walk, take my foldable ebike for a ride or download a new episode of my preferred series and chill in the leather seat and enjoy the premium sound system ;-)
BR Marvin
End of last year I've upgraded to 2020.48.37.8 from 2019.12.1.1 since I was scheduled to replace the 12V battery and the tegra board. Not having planned to drive much I even updated to 2021.24.28 5th March and stuck to it until early April. Then two bigger trips were planned and before them I went back to 2019.12.1.1 - The Roundtrip of 1800km over Eastern with it went well, weather was next to optimal for driving the car, not to warm yet warm enough w/o heating/cooling necessary.
With 2019.12.1.1 the old charging characteristic was back instantly, I also noticed higher charge rates when comparing SuC v2 vs. v3 sessions.
As wk057 already wrote, the better charging could be due to the sdditinal temperature sensor in the Charger handle. From what i can see while comparing multiple v2 / v3 charging sessions from myself, the v3 is faster and at ~40% SoC they come to a match.
v3:
v2:
While using ABRP classic and planning ahead the whole route on my mobile I am prepared in a comfortable way:
- Strarting ABRP classic on my mobile, logging in and planning the route with all necessary waypoints and playing around with max speed to optimize driving vs charging duration etc. until I am satsfied, then saving the plan.
- Now before driving I open the link to ABRP in my tesla browser favorites (1), confirming usage of my position and login with my ABRP credentials (=> show settings => show more settings). Now I can select the saved plan, confirm the settings and plan the route. In the "real-time Info screen" be sure to use the no-map-mode
Note (1): To operate the browser in Tesla MCUv1 with adequate reaction time, the car should be "off", the CD map set to satelite view and traffic off with no active routing. If it still lacks e.g. during replanning at a SuC while charging, opening the sketchpad before opening the browser should do the trick.
Sidenote: You may recall, with 2019.12.1.1 the browser app was able to use the lower half of the window, therefore I can use ABRP in the browser app while also routing to the next SuC with the Navi App quite comfortable.
My S85 from 2015 w/ >250000km "suffers" severly from the reduced supercharge rates. I guess this is partly due to more than 99% DC charging according to my car. Yet in reality roughly 35% of these DC charging was through CHAdeMO with a max rate of 41kW. I presume that this is significantly less stressing, but the BMS is not able to distinguish due to a lack of data, hence tapering the charge rate utmost to be on the secure side :-(
Since Corona forced me into working from home I drive way less, so I usually charge once a week to 94% soc at the local SuC and later at home after some shopping the car will be sitting at 88%. Then, over the course of the week I drive until I reach 15% or less and let it sight at least over night and charge at the SuC next morning, the circle starts again.
That said I am quite confident that my S85 BMS does not miscalculate the capacity at the lower end
And before someone starts telling me, that their time is too precious for sitting in the car for free supercharging, either I do this on a workday and fill the time with conference calls etc. So basically I get paid while charging, lucky me! Or during my freetime I take a walk, take my foldable ebike for a ride or download a new episode of my preferred series and chill in the leather seat and enjoy the premium sound system ;-)
BR Marvin
Thanks for your detailed write up, it’s very informative. I’m also downgrading next week, but in the back of my mind I’m still concerned about the health of the battery.Hey!
End of last year I've upgraded to 2020.48.37.8 from 2019.12.1.1 since I was scheduled to replace the 12V battery and the tegra board. Not having planned to drive much I even updated to 2021.24.28 5th March and stuck to it until early April. Then two bigger trips were planned and before them I went back to 2019.12.1.1 - The Roundtrip of 1800km over Eastern with it went well, weather was next to optimal for driving the car, not to warm yet warm enough w/o heating/cooling necessary.
With 2019.12.1.1 the old charging characteristic was back instantly, I also noticed higher charge rates when comparing SuC v2 vs. v3 sessions.
As wk057 already wrote, the better charging could be due to the sdditinal temperature sensor in the Charger handle. From what i can see while comparing multiple v2 / v3 charging sessions from myself, the v3 is faster and at ~40% SoC they come to a match.
v3:
View attachment 795309
v2:
View attachment 795310
While using ABRP classic and planning ahead the whole route on my mobile I am prepared in a comfortable way:
- Strarting ABRP classic on my mobile, logging in and planning the route with all necessary waypoints and playing around with max speed to optimize driving vs charging duration etc. until I am satsfied, then saving the plan.
- Now before driving I open the link to ABRP in my tesla browser favorites (1), confirming usage of my position and login with my ABRP credentials (=> show settings => show more settings). Now I can select the saved plan, confirm the settings and plan the route. In the "real-time Info screen" be sure to use the no-map-mode
Note (1): To operate the browser in Tesla MCUv1 with adequate reaction time, the car should be "off", the CD map set to satelite view and traffic off with no active routing. If it still lacks e.g. during replanning at a SuC while charging, opening the sketchpad before opening the browser should do the trick.
Sidenote: You may recall, with 2019.12.1.1 the browser app was able to use the lower half of the window, therefore I can use ABRP in the browser app while also routing to the next SuC with the Navi App quite comfortable.
My S85 from 2015 w/ >250000km "suffers" severly from the reduced supercharge rates. I guess this is partly due to more than 99% DC charging according to my car. Yet in reality roughly 35% of these DC charging was through CHAdeMO with a max rate of 41kW. I presume that this is significantly less stressing, but the BMS is not able to distinguish due to a lack of data, hence tapering the charge rate utmost to be on the secure side :-(
Since Corona forced me into working from home I drive way less, so I usually charge once a week to 94% soc at the local SuC and later at home after some shopping the car will be sitting at 88%. Then, over the course of the week I drive until I reach 15% or less and let it sight at least over night and charge at the SuC next morning, the circle starts again.
That said I am quite confident that my S85 BMS does not miscalculate the capacity at the lower end
And before someone starts telling me, that their time is too precious for sitting in the car for free supercharging, either I do this on a workday and fill the time with conference calls etc. So basically I get paid while charging, lucky me! Or during my freetime I take a walk, take my foldable ebike for a ride or download a new episode of my preferred series and chill in the leather seat and enjoy the premium sound system ;-)
BR Marvin
Greetings from the tff-forum
Yeah, imho the most helpful is all the info provided by @wk057 in the various threads he is contributing, most notably these two posts:
Supercharging Speeds: Who, what, where, why, and when
Supercharging speeds have improved dramatically over the past decade. The graph below provides some perspective. In order of descending charge rate: 2018 Model 3 LR (Blue), 2015 Model S 85 kWh (Black), 2012 Model S 85 kWh (Red)
teslamotorsclub.com
Wiki - Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
By the time 2019 rolled around, Tesla had enough data to conclude that the rapid rates of Supercharging in certain conditions were deleterious Or they knew from day one? https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-lithium-ion-batteries " Panasonic specifies a maximum charging current...
teslamotorsclub.com
@wk057 Thanks for all the sharing!
BR Marvin!
PS: With your (@Busk) greetings from the tff-forum you may have noticed that over there I have created a short thread listing/sharing experience what is working w/ 2019.12.1.1 and whatnot, until now I failed to create something similar over here, yet... ;-)
cpa
Active Member
Sounds like the firm charged with this task has the same level of care, concern, and organization as Tesla.
lightningltd
Member
Received a letter from Tesla today....
"Dear Tesla Owner:
Our data indicate that the battery in your Tesla vehicle. (VIN Number), may be experiencing a specific
limitation affecting its maximum charge, which could affect the range your vehicle can travel between charging
sessions. To diagnose this issue, please bring your vehicle into a Tesla Service Center for a free inspection and battery service.
If we are unable to correct the charge limitation through servicing your battery, and depending on the reason for the limitation,
you may be eligible to have your vehicle's battery replaces with a newly remanufactured battery at no cost.
Again, the inspection and battery service will be completed at NO CHARGE. If we determine that your vehicle's
battery should be replaced, the replacement will be done at NO COST TO YOU.
When you bring your vehicle into the service center, please present this letter to the Service Manager."
This begs the question...
Am I going to drive for 6 hours to the Service Center just so they can give me the same reason they gave before after remotely looking at the logs? The reason given last time was "You DC charged too much". Or I wonder if it will be something like You have a lot of miles now, everything is normal (although the loss occurred before the 8 year unlimited warrantee expired).
Thoughts?
Thanks
(Edit: Changed to read 8 year unlimited warrantee (Thanks MP3Mike))
"Dear Tesla Owner:
Our data indicate that the battery in your Tesla vehicle. (VIN Number), may be experiencing a specific
limitation affecting its maximum charge, which could affect the range your vehicle can travel between charging
sessions. To diagnose this issue, please bring your vehicle into a Tesla Service Center for a free inspection and battery service.
If we are unable to correct the charge limitation through servicing your battery, and depending on the reason for the limitation,
you may be eligible to have your vehicle's battery replaces with a newly remanufactured battery at no cost.
Again, the inspection and battery service will be completed at NO CHARGE. If we determine that your vehicle's
battery should be replaced, the replacement will be done at NO COST TO YOU.
When you bring your vehicle into the service center, please present this letter to the Service Manager."
This begs the question...
Am I going to drive for 6 hours to the Service Center just so they can give me the same reason they gave before after remotely looking at the logs? The reason given last time was "You DC charged too much". Or I wonder if it will be something like You have a lot of miles now, everything is normal (although the loss occurred before the 8 year unlimited warrantee expired).
Thoughts?
Thanks
(Edit: Changed to read 8 year unlimited warrantee (Thanks MP3Mike))
Last edited:
What 100k mile warranty? The battery has an unlimited mile 8-year warranty.
It will be interesting to see what happens when, if?, you take your vehicle in...
lightningltd
Member
It will be interesting to see if anyone else get the same letter. It would also be really nice if you got ScanMyTesla or something so we could see the battery voltages before, and after, you take it in. (Or maybe there is someone near you, or the SC you would take it to, that has SMT and could gather the data for you. Maybe @DJRas?)
Given how long battery issues normally take to resolve you should make sure Tesla will provide a rental/loaner while they work on it...
It's at least worth asking for a tow in (if not home). I'm 2 hours from a SC - I got a tow in and back when my battery failed and was replaced under warranty (BMS failure, I believe). Granted, i was still under the 8 year battery warranty and it was undriveable. But it couldn't hurt to reach out to the SC and ask.
The "You DC charge too much" excuse cannot be used since it has never been disclosed to a customer that it can damage the battery, if they tell you that, ask them to show it to you in writing that DC charging will damage the battery.
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