Supercharger - Deming, NM

[avesraggiana]

Tesla nav will choose the longest or the slowest or ideally both at the same time (and it gives preference to toll roads even if not necessary.).

I wonder why this is, why it does that...

 

[Bighorn]

I wonder why this is, why it does that...

It does not consider some secondary roads that google, waze or supercharge.info does.

 

[JSergeant]

I wonder why this is, why it does that...

It's partly what Bighorn says, but I think there are some serious flaws in it's algorithms, plus a lot of errors in it's data. On our recent 8 week, 19,500 mile trip around the country, I lost count of the number of times we had issues with the Tesla navigation, including such things as:

- Indicating that the Supercharger was on the wrong side of the road (so you end up sitting making a left turn, only to realize that the Supercharger is there on the right.)
- giving erroneous and one time downright dangerous turn directions - it was going to have me turn onto an exit ramp of a highway
- it is downright traffic unaware - going to Bloomsburg, PA SpC the Tesla navigation cost us about 15 or 20 minutes by taking a 'short cut' onto a local road into with backed up traffic & roadworks. (I'm quoting from my trip notes.)
- At Little Rock, AR I have a note: The stupid navigation system did it again! - I don't recall what it did now. Actually I do - it took us some contorted way driving past a highway exit which would have been close to the SpC and had us take an exit further on and then back track on local roads to get to the SpC. We realized that when we left the SpC to get back on the highway.
- There were numerous instances where a Supercharger is close to a highway exit/entrance but the navigation was going to drive somewhere else to get on the highway which was right there. Sometimes that seemed to depend on which way the car was facing when you entered your destination.
- I have a note that when we got back on the highway from the Texarkana SpC the nav took us about 5 miles on slow local roads to get to the highway even though the I-30 entrance is right there.
- I have a note from Springfield, MO that The Tesla Nav info was bad for finding this SpC - it had us exit I-44 one exit too early at Exit 77 and then drive a local road for 3 miles even though the Supercharger is right next to exit 80 of I-40. When resuming our trip on I-40 E towards Rolla, the navigation wanted to take us back to Exit 77 to get on the highway even though we could see Exit 80 from the SpC.
- I didn't make note of the many time the Tesla nav was going to choose a route that was much longer and slower than the Google preferred route. As I stated above, we always planned our route with Google and if the Tesla nav was taking a longer or slower route, we just used Google maps on the iPhone until the Tesla nav got in synch with the better route. I would say that we had to use Google maps on the iPhone for at least some part of the route every day for the 8 week trip. Despite that we still had a lot of issues with the Tesla nav, usually because we'd get complacent because it was now on the optimum route, and then it would go and screw up right at the end!
- There was only one time the Tesla nav was correct in suggesting a longer route and Google maps is wrong - that is going from Lima, MT to West Yellowstone. The shortest route is actually a dirt road which would be a disaster in wet weather. Google maps gives no indication of this. Fortunately for us it was dry.
- on the use of toll roads vs non-toll - we frequently drive down to Baltimore from NJ and there is a section of I-95 which has an express toll section. The Tesla nav will always try to guide you onto that even though it is totally unnecessary. We experienced the same thing in Texas where there are parallel toll roads - we had Texas friends with us so they told us to stay on the non-toll road, but if you are from out of state you wouldn't know that.

It is too bad the actual Tesla nav data and directions are so bad, since I actually love the implementation of the nav system, but as I've said in this thread and others, you should definitely not use the Tesla nav for route planning unless you want to spend a lot more time driving than you need to.

 

[Bighorn]

Those situations are all familiar to me. It had me routed to an HOV lane the other day which could have been a $400 fine as a solo occupant.

The other issue is that having the traffic awareness toggled on can be alternately maddening or life saving in the event of a true major traffic incident. I skirted a major jam on the 5 going to Burbank yesterday because I flipped it on after seeing others diverting.

 

[JSergeant]

Those situations are all familiar to me. It had me routed to an HOV lane the other day which could have been a $400 fine as a solo occupant.

The other issue is that having the traffic awareness toggled on can be alternately maddening or life saving in the event of a true major traffic incident. I skirted a major jam on the 5 going to Burbank yesterday because I flipped it on after seeing others diverting.

My feeling is that on balance the Tesla nav is very much worse than Waze for traffic awareness. I've had people tell me for several years that they always use Waze because the Tesla nav sucks. I can think of only one time when Tesla nav actually saved me time because of traffic - that was coming back from Boston and there was a major traffic jam at the GWB (George Washington Bridge) - Tesla nav was insisting that we get off I-95 and go on local roads. I almost ignored it because by then I had had so many bad experiences with it. But mostly it makes bad choices in my experience. Earlier this year I was driving back to NJ from Tennessee on I-81 using Tesla nav. The yellow warning lights on the highway started flashing - 'Tune to AM 1650 for a message'. I tried to do that on the radio but couldn't get the station. Tesla nav didn't give any hint of a problem so I kept going. Very soon the traffic ground to a halt. It turned out there had been a bad truck accident with a fire and the highway was closed. I was stuck for about two and a half hours. I swore then that the next time I see those flashing yellow warning lights on a highway that I would take the next exit and stop and look at Waze before continuing.

Most of the time on long trips I have my wife with me so she can pull out the iPhone and help figure things out, but driving on your own like you do makes it very difficult to respond to those kind of situations. On the trip from Tennessee I was on my own.

I just bought an iPhone mount for the Tesla so that I can easily switch to the iPhone even if on my own.

 

[ahm]

Great discussion on the choices we have with navigation. However, I've been through Deming, NM several times, and I think the Tesla navigation can handle it there. Safe travels this weekend.

 

[JSergeant]

Great discussion on the choices we have with navigation. However, I've been through Deming, NM several times, and I think the Tesla navigation can handle it there. Safe travels this weekend.

Sorry, I'll stop posting about this before the Mods move my posts! It's a topic near and dear to my heart.

 

[Tyl]

Tucson to Deming is a stretch, 202 miles. The interstate is wide open and the posted speed limit is 75mph. The open desert can be chilly overnight and mornings. Keep a close eye on miles remaining to comfortably make it from one point to another. My old battery charged with 252 miles, a lil excessive speed and warming up the interior a tad, I arrived with 3 miles.

My personal 30% rule of always keeping 30% more miles remaining than needed to make it to my destination saved me twice this trip. At one point I was below 20% and had to slow to 55 mph.... Yikes!!! ....to recover or I would not have had the energy to destination. A warm cabin uses a lot of energy and the old lead foot drains the battery quickly too!!!

Cruising along I lost my situational awareness. i.e., sooooo just a reminder to everyone to keep 30% more miles than range needed at all times in temperate months.... 40% if it falls below 50° and if it’s ever colder, snowing or blizzard conditions 100% extra to keep you warm.

Once Willcox AZ comes online this leg will be easier. We loose a lot of time charging our cars to ‘full’ or close to it. I timed the last mile 251 to 252. It took 11 minutes. I much prefer the the 0 to 160 quick charge. Just having Willcox AZ will shave 1.5 hours off a Phoenix AZ to El Paso TX trip. ‘Eyes on Willcox AZ’.

 

[Bighorn]

Tucson to Deming is a stretch, 202 miles. The interstate is wide open and the posted speed limit is 75mph. The open desert can be chilly overnight and mornings. Keep a close eye on miles remaining to comfortably make it from one point to another. My old battery charged with 252 miles, a lil excessive speed and warming up the interior a tad, I arrived with 3 miles.

My personal 30% rule of always keeping 30% more miles remaining than needed to make it to my destination saved me twice this trip. At one point I was below 20% and had to slow to 55 mph.... Yikes!!! ....to recover or I would not have had the energy to destination. A warm cabin uses a lot of energy and the old lead foot drains the battery quickly too!!!

Cruising along I lost my situational awareness. i.e., sooooo just a reminder to everyone to keep 30% more miles than range needed at all times in temperate months.... 40% if it falls below 50° and if it’s ever colder, snowing or blizzard conditions 100% extra to keep you warm.

Once Willcox AZ comes online this leg will be easier. We loose a lot of time charging our cars to ‘full’ or close to it. I timed the last mile 251 to 252. It took 11 minutes. I much prefer the the 0 to 160 quick charge. Just having Willcox AZ will shave 1.5 hours off a Phoenix AZ to El Paso TX trip. ‘Eyes on Willcox AZ’.

I was much more situationally aware going the other way since I can only charge to 239 anymore. Stayed to 70 MPH with the trucks and tried to avoid using more than 20 kW, since that is close to parity with RMs at highway speed. I arrived with 40 rated though I had a slight tail wind. I believe Willcox opening is imminent. The other issue is you went the uphill direction, which would account for about a 28 RM difference given the ~4000 ft delta.

 

[clemahieu]

I did the Tuscon -> Deming trip in a new 75D on 19" wheels. It can be done depending on your risk tolerance.

The computer calculated I'd have 10% left at the end and that was spot on.

Drive environment:
- 78mph autosteer the whole way
- No drafting
- Non-acceleration passing
- 80-85 outside with climate set to 74 degrees in range mode.

The nice thing about this drive is it's very consistent, you're not going to suddenly hit huge hills which mess up the rating.

My backup plan was to slow to 70 and follow a truck but it wasn't an issue.

 

[avesraggiana]

I did the Tuscon -> Deming trip in a new 75D on 19" wheels. It can be done depending on your risk tolerance.

The computer calculated I'd have 10% left at the end and that was spot on.

Drive environment:
- 78mph autosteer the whole way
- No drafting
- Non-acceleration passing
- 80-85 outside with climate set to 74 degrees in range mode.

The nice thing about this drive is it's very consistent, you're not going to suddenly hit huge hills which mess up the rating.

My backup plan was to slow to 70 and follow a truck but it wasn't an issue.

I own a Model S75D also, built in March this year. It still staggers me that one has to, “Work at it,” to get 200 actual miles out of a 257 rated mile battery.

Now I know that the parameters you kept to make that 200 plus mile distance weren’t that onerous, but I’ll be damned if I can remember to switch to Range mode for road trips, or keep my speed at 78 mph, or set my cabin temperature at 74 degrees when it’s 80 to 85 degrees outside.

My solutions will have to be either get a bigger battery, or wait for the Supercharger in Wilcox AZ to be completed.

 

[Pruitt]

It still staggers me that one has to, “Work at it,” to get 200 actual miles out of a 257 rated mile battery.

Now I know that the parameters you kept to make that 200 plus mile distance weren’t that onerous, but I’ll be damned if I can remember to switch to Range mode for road trips, or keep my speed at 78 mph, or set my cabin temperature at 74 degrees when it’s 80 to 85 degrees outside.

The Tesla website used to have a range estimator that would show you the effect of speed and climate conditions on range. You don't have to "work at it" to get close to rated range - you just have to drive around 60 to 65 mph. Driving near 80 uses significantly more energy to push the air out of the way - aerodynamic drag goes up by the square of the speed (twice as fast means four times the drag). By driving 80 your drag has increased over 75% above drag at 60.

 

[Bighorn]

I own a Model S75D also, built in March this year. It still staggers me that one has to, “Work at it,” to get 200 actual miles out of a 257 rated mile battery.

Now I know that the parameters you kept to make that 200 plus mile distance weren’t that onerous, but I’ll be damned if I can remember to switch to Range mode for road trips, or keep my speed at 78 mph, or set my cabin temperature at 74 degrees when it’s 80 to 85 degrees outside.

My solutions will have to be either get a bigger battery, or wait for the Supercharger in Wilcox AZ to be completed.

No car gets EPA mileage under these conditions. It’s not the car but relative dearth of chargers that even makes this a topic.

 

[avesraggiana]

The Tesla website used to have a range estimator that would show you the effect of speed and climate conditions on range. You don't have to "work at it" to get close to rated range - you just have to drive around 60 to 65 mph. Driving near 80 uses significantly more energy to push the air out of the way - aerodynamic drag goes up by the square of the speed (twice as fast means four times the drag). By driving 80 your drag has increased over 75% above drag at 60.

But driving at 60 to 65 is “Working at it” for me, especially when the Tesla begs to be floored and never allowed to ease up.

Seriously, I get what you mean, though. The other morning I left the house at 100% charge which gave me 253 rated miles. I had pegged the TACC at 85 mph, where it remained for the bulk of my 141 mile trip. At that clip, by the time I arrived, I was down to a 23% charge with about 56 rated miles remaining. I also noted that during this extended period of spirited driving my energy consumption was often well north of 350 kWh.

The next time I do this drive to work, I’ll have to will myself to slow down to a steady state 70 mph, about as slow as I can stand to drive on the 5 and 405, and experience for myself the difference in rated mileage remaining and energy used.

 

[David99]

But driving at 60 to 65 is “Working at it” for me, especially when the Tesla begs to be floored and never allowed to ease up.

The person posting about doing it wrote he drove 78 mph and made it with 10% left. That's a reasonable speed. To be fair, though, you have to charge to 100% which takes a long time. A larger battery would shave off a lot of time reducing the charge time.

 

[teddytoons]

Tucson to Deming is a stretch, 202 miles. The interstate is wide open and the posted speed limit is 75mph. The open desert can be chilly overnight and mornings. Keep a close eye on miles remaining to comfortably make it from one point to another. My old battery charged with 252 miles, a lil excessive speed and warming up the interior a tad, I arrived with 3 miles.

My personal 30% rule of always keeping 30% more miles remaining than needed to make it to my destination saved me twice this trip. At one point I was below 20% and had to slow to 55 mph.... Yikes!!! ....to recover or I would not have had the energy to destination. A warm cabin uses a lot of energy and the old lead foot drains the battery quickly too!!!

Cruising along I lost my situational awareness. i.e., sooooo just a reminder to everyone to keep 30% more miles than range needed at all times in temperate months.... 40% if it falls below 50° and if it’s ever colder, snowing or blizzard conditions 100% extra to keep you warm.

Once Willcox AZ comes online this leg will be easier. We loose a lot of time charging our cars to ‘full’ or close to it. I timed the last mile 251 to 252. It took 11 minutes. I much prefer the the 0 to 160 quick charge. Just having Willcox AZ will shave 1.5 hours off a Phoenix AZ to El Paso TX trip. ‘Eyes on Willcox AZ’.

I remember well, you and I talking about this at the El Paso Supercharger! Thank you for the heads up! When I left Deming, the temperature was in the low 40s. I charged as much as I could but, it's a long way to Tucson. My EBA (Estimated Battery Arrival) was about 6% 20 minutes after leaving Deming! Holy Cow! I quickly drafted a truck averaging 71 mph most of the way and arrived in Tucson with 20% battery! Thanks again, Tyl!

 

[teddytoons]

I did the Tuscon -> Deming trip in a new 75D on 19" wheels. It can be done depending on your risk tolerance.

The computer calculated I'd have 10% left at the end and that was spot on.

Drive environment:
- 78mph autosteer the whole way
- No drafting
- Non-acceleration passing
- 80-85 outside with climate set to 74 degrees in range mode.

The nice thing about this drive is it's very consistent, you're not going to suddenly hit huge hills which mess up the rating.

My backup plan was to slow to 70 and follow a truck but it wasn't an issue.

I found the ambient temperature makes a huge difference in battery current draw on my trip from Deming. Once things warmed up, my EBA (Estimated Battery on Arrival). was quite consistent.

 

[Tyl]

Going west I kept it at 70mph and had 35 miles to spare between Deming NM and Tucson AZ. temperatures were in the 60/50’s.
Charged to 249 miles in Deming.

A few photos.

 

[avesraggiana]

Going west I kept it at 70mph and had 35 miles to spare between Deming NM and Tucson AZ. temperatures were in the 60/50’s.
Charged to 249 miles in Deming.

A few photos.

Wow! You’re ballsy. Or, you’re a far more disciplined driver than I am. That’s 215 miles. Did you have much of a headwind?

Yesterday, I charged my car to 100%, 255 miles rated range, then drove 141 miles to work. I arrived with 24% SOC, or 59 miles rated range remaining. I have a somewhat intemperate driving style, setting the TACC at 85 mph when I have the chance of it.

I’m seeing that ones speed is the most important determinant of how far you’ll get on a single charge.

 

[PLUS EV]

Wow! You’re ballsy. Or, you’re a far more disciplined driver than I am. That’s 215 miles. Did you have much of a headwind?

Yesterday, I charged my car to 100%, 255 miles rated range, then drove 141 miles to work. I arrived with 24% SOC, or 59 miles rated range remaining. I have a somewhat intemperate driving style, setting the TACC at 85 mph when I have the chance of it.

I’m seeing that ones speed is the most important determinant of how far you’ll get on a single charge.

The difference between 85mph and 70mph is huge. Also Tyl's route was 1400 ft downhill.