Supercharging option pricing/60 kWh pack fee discussion

[jerry33]

but you are paying for charging at home - on long-distance at SC you get it for free.

Yes, but only after the network is in place. Unless you live in California and restrict your trips to California it may be some time before you get any use out of the SC network. If Tesla can actually install the SCs within their stated timeframes it will be an industry first. At the Leaf dog and pony show in the spring of 2011 EvGo said they would have over thirty chargers in place by September in the Dallas area. To date there are thirteen.

 

[kevincwelch]

but you are paying for charging at home - on long-distance at SC you get it for free.

Of course. But in Chicago, for example, how long before Tesla *really* gets a SC out here? I could pay $2000 for this access and it may take 2, 3 or 4 years before it's up and running. Furthermore, let's say I did live in California right in the middle of the current SCs. How often would I be using them? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? 1-2x/year?

I agree that free supercharging is, well, free. And free is great.

What I am questioning is not whether it should be free to 85 kWh people, 60 kWh people, or 40 kWh people. Rather, what is the value of the free supercharging relative to the price I will have to pay? For me, I don't think it will be worth it. I'm not sure it will make a big difference in resale either. I could be wrong, of course.

But since I did mention it, what is the fundamental difference between 85 kWh versions and 60 kWh versions that anyone buying an 85 kWh model gets the hardware/software for free? It would seem to me that the same hardware and software needs to be installed and "calibrated." Your garden variety 85 kWh model isn't a Signature series. So, what sets it apart other than price? Prior to last week an 85 kWh model was $10,000 more than a 60 kWh model; why is it suddenly only $8000 more? Prices seem a little fluid with Tesla, and if the car is the same in every other way except the battery, why the "free" SC? If you're an 85 kWh holder in Maine, do you not have to wait potentially the same amount of time for SC?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't get where people get the impression that SC was going to be included in the price of the 60kWh. Except for a short period recently, it was always TBD or optional. That gives me the impression that the hardware/software was optional and/or there would be an access fee.

It seems they have decided to combine both (using a "life-time" access fee).

 

[dmunjal]

Look at this way. How much more will a a supercharger enabled 60kw Model S be worth in 5 years compared to one without? I'm sure it would be at least $1000. So, it sounds like a good choice.

 

[Todd Burch]

In my mind the $1000 supercharger fee is way more worth it than paying extra for a second onboard charger.

 

[dsm363]

You're banking on Tesla not following through with the Supercharger network if you don't get it I think. If you don't want and need it then certainly don't get it but for resale value, and if Tesla actually builds out their 5 year plan, then I think it would be worth it even if you only used it a few times a year.

 

[Doug_G]

I figure if the calibration has to do with the cabling it is not an easy thing to do. Who knows, it may involve placing magnets at specific locations to contain electromagnetic fields. I'm not an expert but trust Tesla that they can't easily do a retrofit after the car has left the factory.

Uh, no, you can't contain electromagnetic fields by placing magnets. And they wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Honestly I have no idea what "calibration" they are referring to. It could be balancing the current on the various strings, but that would change over time so that doesn't make sense either.

 

[Chas F]

On the flip side, there will be others who will make the jump to a 85 kWh pack because the price difference is now only $8K if you must have Supercharging. So that gives them additional revenue and will cancel out the effect of people like you downgrading to 40 kWh.

I considered that but concluded that the primary reason anyone buying a 60KW with SC is not automatically upgrading to the 85kw is because they can't afford it. The 85kw is still the same price as it was before so nothing has really changed for those who can afford it. I would assume that would mean there would be many more downgrades than upgrades but I guess we will see.

 

[The Froq]

When are we ready with this? Tesla made a mistake, they know that by now!

Telsa make the SC work for free for 2 years for the p60. After that, pay 2k or not.

Simple, out! And know,please focus on the production.

 

[Chas F]

Agree with jerry33. I live in Florida and it could be several years before I see any SC usage. Additionally, my road trips are typically 500-600 miles each and only 1 - 2 times a year. That means (assuming $200/trip gas equivalent) it could take me as much as 10 years before I break even...starting 2-3 years from now!

I plan to keep my car for at least 10 years. Considering we don't really know where battery tech could be in 10 years, SC could be irrelevant (think 1000 mile range) and it's relation to resale value no longer a factor.

I don't know but there seem to be too many unknowns for me to bank on SC for that long.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

I don't get where people get the impression that SC was going to be included in the price of the 60kWh. Except for a short period recently, it was always TBD or optional. That gives me the impression that the hardware/software was optional and/or there would be an access fee.

It seems they have decided to combine both (using a "life-time" access fee).

To add to that: until one week ago the costs of supercharging for 60 kWh-cars could have been $10-20 per full charge. But Tesla chose to make it free, for ever! In most cases that totally unexpected gesture completely makes up for the $1000 (or $2000) Tesla charges for the supercharging-capability.

 

[Todd Burch]

But since I did mention it, what is the fundamental difference between 85 kWh versions and 60 kWh versions that anyone buying an 85 kWh model gets the hardware/software for free? It would seem to me that the same hardware and software needs to be installed and "calibrated." Your garden variety 85 kWh model isn't a Signature series. So, what sets it apart other than price? Prior to last week an 85 kWh model was $10,000 more than a 60 kWh model; why is it suddenly only $8000 more? Prices seem a little fluid with Tesla, and if the car is the same in every other way except the battery, why the "free" SC? If you're an 85 kWh holder in Maine, do you not have to wait potentially the same amount of time for SC?

Simple. The 85 kWh version is $10k ($8k, depending on how you look at it) more than the 60kWh. So the free supercharger is an added bonus for getting the top-of-the-line battery.

We all seem to be forgetting that Tesla is a business, not a charity--a business that has to make money to survive. So it wants to sell the highest margin car it can, and that means the 85kWh version.

I work at a company that sells software (as do many here). We commonly throw in free perks to encourage customers to upgrade to our highest cost licensing option, because that's where the most profit is. There's absolutely no difference here. It all boils down to your own analysis, as you mention. Make the decision to buy the option based on whether it's worth it to you.

 

[stopcrazypp]

When are we ready with this? Tesla made a mistake, they know that by now!

Telsa make the SC work for free for 2 years for the p60. After that, pay 2k or not.

Simple, out! And know,please focus on the production.

Apparently they need to do a software calibration (and there's also the hardware which is NOT included in 60kWh for later orders). So it's not possible to offer it for free as it's not simply an access fee that can be tacked on later.

The car either comes out of the factory with or without supercharging capability. It's can't be added afterwards.

Personally, like most people, I'm curious what the software calibration involves.

 

[jerry33]

We all seem to be forgetting that Tesla is a business, not a charity--a business that has to make money to survive. So it wants to sell the highest margin car it can, and that means the 85kWh version.

I work at a company that sells software (as do many here). We commonly throw in free perks to encourage customers to upgrade to our highest cost licensing option, because that's where the most profit is. There's absolutely no difference here. It all boils down to your own analysis, as you mention. Make the decision to buy the option based on whether it's worth it to you.

+1 I don't think anyone really has a problem with the price, only the way it was presented. There are ways to do this kind of thing--and the way Tesla did it isn't one of them.

 

[markb1]

While Tesla may have said hardware and software was included, did they ever say Supercharger access would be free for both 60 and 85 kWh packs?

No. But I had expected to pay a per charge fee. This $1000 dollars to enable the supercharging hardware is a lot if you expect to make infrequent use of the superchargers.

 

[sublimaze1]

I've had a reservation for almost 3 years and have been on this site nearly daily for as long. I have never once thought that the supercharging would be free, for *anyone*. Especially for the 60 kWh version. And yes, I've parsed through every word of every version of the Tesla website. Don't forget, we're all on the absolute forefront of an entirely new technology and a new transportation paradigm. Tesla has made cross-country travel in an electric vehicle realistic. Nobody else has ever done that. Ever.

Tesla has not been great at communicating openly and clearly with its customers, I agree. That is an area they can improve in. But I also believe that what they've offered here for 60 kWh customers is fair. If you like the deal and can afford it, get it. If not, don't. It's as simple as that. No bait and switch, no conspiracy theories--just part of the early adoption process.

Thank you. Perfectly worded. Now I don't have to post it ... :frown:

 

[kevincwelch]

You're banking on Tesla not following through with the Supercharger network if you don't get it I think. If you don't want and need it then certainly don't get it but for resale value, and if Tesla actually builds out their 5 year plan, then I think it would be worth it even if you only used it a few times a year.

Possibly right. It's not that I think Tesla will not follow through. For me, it's a matter of when and in what capacity. I can be convinced that it will increase the resale value, but I personally don't believe one should buy a car because of its potential resale value. For me, a car is not an investment. It's a utility.

Anyway, I am probably going to get the SC, either as a 60 kWh option or with the 85 kWh. Still considering. Either way, I don't know if it's going to be worth it to me in the end.

 

[dsm363]

Possibly right. It's not that I think Tesla will not follow through. For me, it's a matter of when and in what capacity. I can be convinced that it will increase the resale value, but I personally don't believe one should buy a car because of its potential resale value. For me, a car is not an investment. It's a utility.

Anyway, I am probably going to get the SC, either as a 60 kWh option or with the 85 kWh. Still considering. Either way, I don't know if it's going to be worth it to me in the end.

I agree. You can buy things with resell value in mind but you shouldn't bank on it. Things are always be worth much less than you thought you a feature you get that you think will increase the resell value doesn't do that at all.

I'd say it's probably worth it. Maybe not from a purely financial sense but in that it could potentially make travel much easier if Tesla does indeed build out the network.

 

[kevincwelch]

We all seem to be forgetting that Tesla is a business, not a charity--a business that has to make money to survive.

No...I don't think most people here are thinking that; that statement is a bit presumptuous. Rather, most people who are vocalizing against Tesla's recent announcements has to do with how Tesla does business. In my mind, there's a difference. I think there could have been better ways for Tesla to option out the service plans and the SC'ing.

But, you're right re: whether to buy it based on whether it is a value for you.

 

[digitaltim]

I forget the exact Peter Drucker quote, but it goes something like this: businesses only exist to have profitable customers - customers only pay for good/services that they perceive have value and to that end the only functions that matter are marketing and innovation - everything else is costs.

If you don't believe the 60kWH charging option has value, don't buy it. That said, the marketing has been unclear about what is included versus additional.

I can live with all the confusion as an early adopter - that is price we pay...or maybe we are really innovators and expected to have an even higher tolerance for failure. I have to go read up on the Tarde/Rogers definitions.