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Supercharging to reduce ownership cost of a Model S.

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by No2DinosaurFuel, May 26, 2015.

  1. No2DinosaurFuel

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    I want to get people's opinion to this idea.

    Here is why I am considering this. Recently they have placed a supercharging station on my way to work from where I live. I was thinking I can save a lot of money by not doing the following and use the supercharging ALL the time.

    1) Save money on extra charge cable (i.e. I can leave the mobile charger permanently in my car without getting an extra one) (~$650 mobile charger bundle)
    2) Save money on doing electrical upgrade for the HPWC/14-50 (~$1K-$3K)
    3) Save money on HPWC ($750)
    4) Save money on electricity ($0.22 per KWH for lowest tier usage here in SoCal. More if I use more)
    5) Probably no need to pay for Dual Charger install because I will probably do 100% supercharging! (~$2K)

    As you can see you can save quite a bit of money. Sure I spend a bit of time at the supercharging station in the morning every other day, ~15-30minutes, to charge enough to get me enough charge for 2 days trip. I am fully aware of the ethics of doing this, but I figured if supercharging is already factored into the price of the Model S, why not use it? You already paid for it. Moreover, from other threads, it does not seem to damage or degrade the battery any more than other charging method, provided I don't take the SOC greater than 80% and not use it quickly.
     
  2. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    Why not use it? Because 15-30 mins every other day is not convenient, and kind of a pain. As someone without home charging, I would gladly pay for the convenience. (And I will definitely install charging when I buy my next home). The car is more useful when you always leave home with a full charge. What about if you need a charge somewhere not on your way to work? Maybe you do some driving on the weekend. Then it is an extra trip to go charge.
     
  3. No2DinosaurFuel

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    Well if I plan it out a bit, I would charge to a slightly higher SOC my way home on Fridays to cover my weekend driving. I don't need 200 miles the whole weekend. Moreover, if I ever need to do 200 miles a weekend, then most likely the supercharging station will be on my way there or back during that 200 miles in town trip. If I need to go out of town, I will will to use the supercharging station anyways. Again there is a little inconvenience of waiting and the extra detours some of the time, but if I do it this way, I am sure to save $10K+ on the extra equipment and electricity cost over the 8 years life of the car. This is not counting the cost of gas if I were to do that kind of distance in my ICE car.
     
  4. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Let's be generous and put this aside.

    I haven't counted recently but let's be generous and say there are 1000 supercharger stalls in CA. I'm pretty sure there are at least 10,000 Model S vehicles registered in CA. Imagine all of them made the same decision you're considering.

    Overnight the intended purpose of supercharging would be effectively nullified. Do you want to be part of that?
     
  5. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    The $60 or so extra that I pay in electricity each month is well worth the convenience of waking up every day with a full charge (or, as much charge as I want, if not full). And I care too much for the Tesla community to be "that guy" who goes to the supercharger every day, just because it's possible.
     
  6. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    For the $1.50 a day in electricity, it isn't worth my time to consider, unless the S/C is a 2 minute walk from my home or office. Home charging is the answer for me.
     
  7. No2DinosaurFuel

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    Yes if you look at the numbers, this will be the case, but if factor in the amount of time I am there charging, it will be moot. Moreover, if you count the number of cars supercharging all the time? Most supercharging session will not be long anyways. I can always balance the cells once I get home on the 120V every month or so. Also keep in mind, not everyone's situation is like mine. Most do not have a supercharging on their to/from work commute. Hence not everyone will be doing what I am doing. My only real concerns is those Qualcomm employees who might just leave their tesla the whole day there charging because they work there.

    Given the amount of time I will supercharging (~15-30minutes) each morning before rush hour or late after hour because of my work schedule, I doubt I will impeding on anyone... at least until the Model 3 comes out. My supercharging might be so fast, I will be in an out before anyone notice. Keep in mind I am not advocating leaving my car there overnight or what not. I don't live close enough to do that. : )

    - - - Updated - - -

    Right, but now the cost is not just the electricity cost. It is also the install of the HPWC or NEMA 14-50 or extra charger equipment and such. So it's not purely the cost of electricity anymore. I think most people, even tesla, do not advertise this cost in the cost of the car.
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Is this similar to TM's "time savings" at the gas station for the TCO? ;)
     
  9. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Charging at home is, in my opinion, one of the best things about owning an EV. It's always ready to go when I wake up in the morning, with virtually no effort on my part. If you can install a 14-50 outlet at home, I think it's totally worth it.
     
  10. Owner

    Owner Active Member

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    Another thing to consider is that a lot of people solely use a boring old 110 outlet for a lot of their charging. Perhaps this might be a solution for you. Sounds like your commute is a little long but you could perhaps do a combo of 110 and once a week supercharging or something like that.

    I used 110 for a short while when I transitioned between the Roadster and the Model S. I blogged about it here: Living With 110V | TESLA OWNER

    This page actually has gotten a fair amount of hits, and I heard that many folks in older homes in Atlanta live this way quite nicely (except in unusual cold weather).
     
  11. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    You don't need any extra charging equipment. The UMC is fine. Just plug it in and leave it at home unless you are going on a road trip.

    The cost of adding a 220v outlet is also not much, less than $500 in many cases. Well worth the convience in the long run.

    Or just plug into an exisiting 110v outlet, if you don't drive around 40 miles a day.
     
  12. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    My math might be a little fuzzy here, but it seems like you're trying to convince yourself that the savings of using a supercharger are greater than they actually are.

    1) This is not a supercharger related issue, this is a convenience issue. You could just as easily have 1 UMC and charge at home.
    3) See #1.
    5) Assuming you have an 85D, 30 minutes gets you... what 170 miles of charge? for 2 days, that's 85miles round trip per day. Why do you need dual chargers? 14-50 at 40 amps charges at ~28-29mph, so you need to charge for 3 hours at night.

    So you're saving on install costs and the cost to charge (#2 and #4).
     
  13. RyanT

    RyanT Member

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    You don't need to add all those items(1,3 and 5). It comes with a mobile charger so you don't need to add one and get a HPWC. Likewise with the duel charger. I just have the mobile charger it comes with (I take it with me only on roadtrips).

    My 14-50 install was only $350. You could just do that and supercharge/homecharge when you want.
     
  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Without going into the above, I would still get a home charging setup completed. Even at $1k, it would be worth it to me as a backup plan. And I concur with Ryan and others, just do the NEMA 14-50 without the extras. Then fall back on the Supercharger if you have a need for a fast charge some day.
     
  15. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Member

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    Seems like you are making contradictory assumptions here. You're perfectly happy to wait for the superchargers, but then compare it to the costs of having a spare cable, dual chargers and a HPWC. Smart thing to do is just get a 14-50 outlet and charge at home most of the time. The cost of that would surely be worth the half hour every other day of waiting at a supercharger.
     
  16. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Once my car is finally here, I will be charging with 110V. My daily commute is very short. My job has a [paid] charger if I ever need a boost, at only a margin more than I pay for electricity at home. And plenty of superchargers nearby for the roadtrips.
     
  17. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    I second the notion that:

    - This doesn't scale well. It takes only fraction of current Model S owners doing this to congest the superchargers, particularly because it would likely be during commute times. Not to mention what will happen now that 50K+ Model S's are being sold a year, and 10x that number are eventually planned for Model 3.

    - I don't believe that avoiding home charging where possible just to save a buck is in the spirit of the intent of the Superchargers

    - Potentially making folks on road trips who have NO convenient alternative charging options wait while you avoid convenient options available to you for your "normal" driving needs is discourteous at best

    Saving $60/month yet dealing with the time/effort to do this, while at the same time potentially inconveniencing others? Not worth it. Instead get a time-of-use caring plan, and save a few $$$ in monthly cost and charge at home as intended.
     
  18. No2DinosaurFuel

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    #18 No2DinosaurFuel, May 26, 2015
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
    Ok so as other have stated, maybe the 14-50 might be the best route. It will still be $1K at least, given the mods I need to do to the panels and probably the wiring cost for the 50A. My commute is more than 40 miles a day round trip so I can't get by using the 120V. Moreover, others have said you will spend more money if you use the 120V to charge because of more wasted heat energy.

    Keep in mind I am not recommending this to everyone. I am merely saying it might work out for some who is looking to save a few bucks by giving up some convenience of charging at home. Obviously not everyone here are willing to do that. Point taken. But this is just a suggestion.
     
  19. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    I see no ethical issues. If owners decide to make use of superchargers on the route to work, it's their decision.
    Example : owners in London, Hong Kong and other dense places in the world drive completely on superchargers out of necessity.

    Of course, this may impede access to another owner who needs the charge for a road trip they are on, but that is likely to be a rare event, and can be managed with sensitivity at the time (just leave when you have enough charge to get to work/home).
    If you found the SC location to become more crowded, I would imagine it would cause you to rethink this strategy and instead charge at home more often.

    Frankly, even with 110V charging, you can add at least 40 miles of range per night, which should more than buffer the need to supercharge every two days, and that would require no additional investment (assuming you have a 110V plug near your garage/parking spot).
     
  20. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    50A is best, but you can also use a 30A circuit (for 24Amp charging) if it's significantly cheaper. Charging a 24A is about 17 miles an hour, so 100 miles a night during the super off peak rates.
     

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