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#2,921
Lordstown is doing something right: they are not BSing on tweeter, no dancing IPOs and no show-casings of prototypes /sketches one after another of completely different vehicles.
They are focusing one single one configuration, fighting feature-creep at every step and doing it from the ground up - your first product is your factory.

I'd be prepared to invest into them based on this alone.
And I do not believe hub motors are a great idea nor they have much/any real advantages over on-board motors with a half-shafts.
They still look much more downhearted than even Lucid. Not to mention that N-company ...
 
#2,922
Workhorse owns 10% of Lordstown per Steve Berns. Not a parent company. Workhorse does own some patents Lordstown will be using and they will pay Workhorse a royalty.

Singapore GDP per capita is $60.5k whereas US is $52.75k.

Texas is $61k per capita.

London is $63k per capita. But the average Westerner doesn't know that.

I don't know how the Chinese perceive Singapore but I would be willing to bet the wealthy Chinese consumer would be more willing to buy a Dyson $200k BEV made in the UK than made in Singapore.
 
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#2,923
RobStark said:
Workhorse owns 10% of Lordstown per Steve Berns. Not a parent company. Workhorse does own some patents Lordstown will be using and they will pay Workhorse a royalty.

Singapore GDP per capita is $60.5k whereas US is $52.75k.

Texas is $61k per capita.

London is $63k per capita. But the average Westerner doesn't know that.

I don't know how the Chinese perceive Singapore but I would be willing to bet the wealthy Chinese consumer would be more willing to buy a Dyson $200k BEV made in the UK than made in Singapore.
Click to expand...

Singapore inspired China's economic growth and the opening up of the country.
This man helped turn China into an economic power

The wealthier Chinese are mostly nuevo-riche who want flashy brands. Buick sells very well in China (it's the only reason the nameplate wasn't retired years ago) because the last Chinese emperor collected Buicks and there is a "look at me" thing with driving a Buick in China. Having an expensive car made in Europe or America carries more weight among the wealthy pecking order than having an expensive car made in another Asian country.

I grew up in an Asian community. It was mostly Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese then, but a lot of SE Asians have moved in since. Among the Asian cultures there is a lot of competition and pecking order. And it originated with their family members who emigrated here. Most of the Asians I knew who had been born here were very aware what other Asians were, but there wasn't as much discrimination because of it than their immigrant parents or grandparents. The Chinese have been ascendant the last 30 years or so, so they have been looking down on the other Asian countries, even the ones that industrialized before they did.
 
#2,924
MXLRplus said:
If it is construction, you can't go hands-free in a Tesla either, unless it's a rental that you bought the extra insurance on.
Mine doesn't like barrels or close to lane k-rail. It seems like it will clip them if you don't stop it.

If Cadillac deemed a section of freeway too risky, why would Tesla allow AP to be used on it?
Click to expand...
I don't want to clutter this thread up with a discussion of what AP (or Enhanced AP in my car) can and can't do but you and I appear to have had very different experiences. I mentioned that section of I95 because it seems like you won't be able to use Super Cruise there until the mutli-year construction is done. I have, however, used AP through that area starting around when V9 was released. Until the outbreak of Covid-19, that was my daily commute. There are jersey barriers on both sides through the construction and AP on my car seems to have no difficulty with them.
 
#2,925
colettimj said:
I don't want to clutter this thread up with a discussion of what AP (or Enhanced AP in my car) can and can't do but you and I appear to have had very different experiences. I mentioned that section of I95 because it seems like you won't be able to use Super Cruise there until the mutli-year construction is done. I have, however, used AP through that area starting around when V9 was released. Until the outbreak of Covid-19, that was my daily commute. There are jersey barriers on both sides through the construction and AP on my car seems to have no difficulty with them.
Click to expand...

Yes, different experiences. My AP react too late to avoid zero-shoulder k-rail. The Cadillac works better in these situations.
We are discussing BEV (beverages? or do some EVs lack batteries?) competition.

AP is nowhere near as flawless as web forums would indicate.
 
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#2,927
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#2,933
MXLRplus said:
On this planet or another? ;)
Click to expand...
BEV and PHEV are used commonly on every EV-related site I visit.
I've always considered a BMW i3 as a "pure-all-battery"+EV without reading the window sticker.
Click to expand...
BMW i3 has both BEV and PHEV versions, but they call the PHEV the i3 REX. Many carmakers avoid PHEV because it sounds awkward. GM tried to call their Cadillac PHEV an EREV, but that never took hold (either the name or the car, ha). Honda Clarity used to have three versions -- BEV, PHEV and Fuel Cell. I think they dropped the BEV this year and they call the PHEV the "Clarity Plug-in Hybrid", which is not the least bit awkward. Toyota calls their PHEVs "Prime", e.g. Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. Chrysler just calls their PHEV van the Pacifica Hybrid, because they don't have a conventional hybrid version.

Rather than keep track of a dozen different confusing names, EV enthusiasts just use the term PHEV to describe any vehicle with both a plug-in traction battery and a gas tank. And almost all use BEV to differentiate, though on some sites you'll find purists who insist that PHEVs are not worthy of the EV name and "how dare you even mention such an horrible idea, this just proves you're an oil company shill who hates Mother Gaia". :)
 
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#2,934
Doggydogworld said:
BEV and PHEV are used commonly on every EV-related site I visit.

BMW i3 has both BEV and PHEV versions, but they call the PHEV the i3 REX. Many carmakers avoid PHEV because it sounds awkward. GM tried to call their Cadillac PHEV an EREV, but that never took hold (either the name or the car, ha). Honda Clarity used to have three versions -- BEV, PHEV and Fuel Cell. I think they dropped the BEV this year and they call the PHEV the "Clarity Plug-in Hybrid", which is not the least bit awkward. Toyota calls their PHEVs "Prime", e.g. Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. Chrysler just calls their PHEV van the Pacifica Hybrid, because they don't have a conventional hybrid version.

Rather than keep track of a dozen different confusing names, EV enthusiasts just use the term PHEV to describe any vehicle with both a plug-in traction battery and a gas tank. And almost all use BEV to differentiate, though on some sites you'll find purists who insist that PHEVs are not worthy of the EV name and "how dare you even mention such an horrible idea, this just proves you're an oil company shill who hates Mother Gaia". :)
Click to expand...

If you want to experiment on PEV enthusiasts, talk to them about using your portable charger to charge your EREV. :p
 
#2,935
It's apparently time to re-litigate the various flavors of EV. I've been happy to not see this conversation for what seems like a couple of years now. It was all the rage several years back.

Since my opinion is worth nothing, I'll keep it to myself. GO BEV / EV / PHEV / EREV / HEV / TEV ...!

(It's not often in this discussion that I find new acronyms I haven't previously encountered. So that's new)
 
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#2,936
MXLRplus said:
On this planet or another? ;)

I've always considered a BMW i3 as a "pure-all-battery"+EV without reading the window sticker.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you're the only one who thinks these acronyms aren't widely used elsewhere? It's all over any sites that are mildly interested in electric vehicles in general.

The i3 is indeed a BEV, but the i3 Rex is NOT. There are many differences between the Rex and a Leaf towing a gas range extender, and primary amongst them is that you can't control when the Rex turns on (in the US version) AND that you can't turn on the Leaf range extender while its running. But I'll grant you that's heading into the weeds, but the point is that one was a marketing ploy, regardless of how the product was used.
 
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#2,937
Doggydogworld said:
BEV and PHEV are used commonly on every EV-related site I visit.

BMW i3 has both BEV and PHEV versions, but they call the PHEV the i3 REX. Many carmakers avoid PHEV because it sounds awkward. GM tried to call their Cadillac PHEV an EREV, but that never took hold (either the name or the car, ha). Honda Clarity used to have three versions -- BEV, PHEV and Fuel Cell. I think they dropped the BEV this year and they call the PHEV the "Clarity Plug-in Hybrid", which is not the least bit awkward. Toyota calls their PHEVs "Prime", e.g. Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime. Chrysler just calls their PHEV van the Pacifica Hybrid, because they don't have a conventional hybrid version.

Rather than keep track of a dozen different confusing names, EV enthusiasts just use the term PHEV to describe any vehicle with both a plug-in traction battery and a gas tank. And almost all use BEV to differentiate, though on some sites you'll find purists who insist that PHEVs are not worthy of the EV name and "how dare you even mention such an horrible idea, this just proves you're an oil company shill who hates Mother Gaia". :)
Click to expand...
There is a thread devoted to this stuff (although it's old now): Pure BEV Dogma

You can't really call the BMW i3 a PHEV, because when the battery runs out it really isn't a fully functional vehicle. For example you couldn't drive up a long hill at freeway speed, e.g. my home in San Diego to Julian in the mountains. It's well within range, but people would be running you off the road. The Range Extender just helps you get to a charger.
 
#2,939
SwTslaGrl said:
Is any BEV competitor on a similar path as Tesla with software, OTA upgrades & diagnostics, software integration of all systems in the car etc. or are they all hardware only with separate subcontractor systems?
Click to expand...

The Mustang Mach-E looks the most promising so far. Similar form factor, specs, and price to the Model Y with a big touch screen and OTA updates and some time in the near-ish future an autopilot equivalent. I don't know which parts came from whom, or how many they'll build, or how well the software will work in practice... but it looks good on paper, which is still more than you can say for any other competitor, well, ever.
 
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#2,940
ammulder said:
The Mustang Mach-E looks the most promising so far. Similar form factor, specs, and price to the Model Y with a big touch screen and OTA updates and some time in the near-ish future an autopilot equivalent. I don't know which parts came from whom, or how many they'll build, or how well the software will work in practice... but it looks good on paper, which is still more than you can say for any other competitor, well, ever.
Click to expand...

Mach-e will have a Super Cruise equivalent. Meant for mapped highway use.

I am almost certain over the air updates will me for minor updates and major updates you will need to go to the dealer. Like every other legacy OEM.
 
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