Tesla Software updates - Australia

[lazjen]

"Offer something" - no, if necessary add whatever is needed to make the car do what we paid it to do.
Musk is the problem. For all his enterprise and intellectual abilities he is driven by tech, not providing what most people want.His comment a year ago saying "FSD is proving a lot more difficult than we thought" sums it up: tech nerds might imagine everything is solvable but any driver knows just how many "edge" cases crop up literally every day that are easily resolved by a mere human - often without thinking consciously about them - that are going to be almost impossible to solve by present tech. His saying that showed to me at least that he is distracted by the drive to bring in new things constantly rather than getting them working well, which after all is what Joe Public needs.
I'm a bit of a tech nerd myself, as are many Tesla owners, but mass EV adoption will only happen when we get past the "isn't this new and exciting, let's hope we get an update that makes it work properly" phase. I think the legacy auto makers have a better handle on this despite present glitches.
The one thing that sets Tesla apart from the rest is the supercharger network - and that's being rolled out to everyone: we paid for it, they won't!

That's what I meant by "Offer something". And I agree we've got to get past these phases. Get the basic mundane stuff right first (TACC vs phantom braking or auto-steer weirdness) before pushing FSD.

 

[Wol747]

Sept. 2021 M3P got 2022.24.6 yesterday.

Immediately took it for a 10 minute drive down a highway to try vision-based AP and came back disappointed.

It phantom braked twice. Once when it was driving past a metal barrier, and another when it was completely free on all 3 lanes.

In the past there was a way to trigger diagnostic data to be sent back to Tesla by holding the T on a MS. Is there similar ways to submit feedback in our cars these days?

Who knows? Once you buy your car you're effectively out of communication with the company.
As I understand it, giving a "bug report" only saves data: it doesn't send any feedback to Tesla but can be retrieved by a SC if you book a service appointment.

 

[Wol747]

That's what I meant by "Offer something". And I agree we've got to get past these phases. Get the basic mundane stuff right first (TACC vs phantom braking or auto-steer weirdness) before pushing FSD.

Agreed.
I had a lift from a friend this week to pick up my "S" from the body shop (don't ask...). His Audi has the bird's eye view with parking lines - it is a thousand times better than the autopark, which picks up perhaps a quarter of spaces and then takes so long, with much squirrelling of the wheel, to park it's effectively useless tech.

 

[positiv]

There's a thread on reddit about the

What's wearing me down has much more to do with the lack of progress or improvement for us here in Oz. The bad behaviour hasn't changed in any appreciable way in the past 2.5 years. It still does the same stupid stuff: The car slows down before passing other cars on the highway, always paints cars up ahead in the left lane as across the line over into my lane (despite that very clearly not being the case), emergency lane keep assists me whether I need it or not (and very loudly so), complains about lane changes, it rarely reliably changes from right lane to left lane on the highway, and it generally appears to be a second or two behind where the car is, for instance when other cars are crossing the highway at an intersection, the car slows way down, way late, and way unnecessarily so. The number of times it does these stupid things far outweighs the 5:1 ratio I'd need to develop a positive attitude towards it. My car is as dumb as a doorknob. And so are those who think they can fake human drivers with these crappy cameras.

I am very concerned that Elon and friends are going down the wrong rabbit hole by trying to implement AP on vision alone. While the cameras may have sufficient dynamic range (or do they if they need high beams!?), they most certainly do not have sufficient resolution to do this reliably without driving like an effing moron and constantly slowing down for potential obstacles, potential red lights ahead, or for phantoms.

I agree with all your points.

It's actually a well known fact that cameras do not have the dynamic range of the human eye, but they may have greater sensitivity. Tesla may be able to get around this with some sort of sensor fusion (i.e. multiple cameras at different exposure settings, radar + camera etc). However Tesla are clearly not good at this as they are using high beams as some sort of crutch to cover for the lack of usable signal at night.

The other possibility is that the cameras just have crappy sensors. Indeed my lane change cameras are as blind as a bat at night. If that's the case then we may be looking at a complicated retrofit.

 

[Wol747]

There's a thread on reddit about the

I agree with all your points.

It's actually a well known fact that cameras do not have the dynamic range of the human eye, but they may have greater sensitivity. Tesla may be able to get around this with some sort of sensor fusion (i.e. multiple cameras at different exposure settings, radar + camera etc). However Tesla are clearly not good at this as they are using high beams as some sort of crutch to cover for the lack of usable signal at night.

The other possibility is that the cameras just have crappy sensors. Indeed my lane change cameras are as blind as a bat at night. If that's the case then we may be looking at a complicated retrofit.

It may well be the situation that they have realised that the hardware isn't up to the task, that retrofitting tens of thousands if not millions of cars will bankrupt them so are beavering away all sorts of tricks and updates (beta) trying to make do with what we've got.

 

[Priit]

Get the basic mundane stuff right first (TACC vs phantom braking or auto-steer weirdness) before pushing FSD.

Currently I would really love my car to have a basic TACC or even just dumb cruise control, that just keeps the speed of the car. There are so many cases where it says cruise not available of if you engage it, it hits the breaks or acts unpredictably, where all I need is stable constant speed from it. From a car one would expect stability.

It may well be the situation that they have realised that the hardware isn't up to the task, that retrofitting tens of thousands if not millions of cars will bankrupt them so are beavering away all sorts of tricks and updates (beta) trying to make do with what we've got.

If they realized that much, they would be currently deploying the new upgraded hardware, as they know that this will come to bite them and catch up at some point. The sooner they start including new hardware, and then drag their feet with the FSD rollout by another 3-5 years, then by the time they flick the switch to call it done and full availability, they have way less cars to retrofit, that they may be able to either afford to do then. Or they can possibly offer to replace them older cars that were purchased with FSD with new cars with required hardware to get out of having to retrofit something that may not be easy to replace.
In my opinion, as they have been selling FSD for long enough, they should offer people who did purchase it years ago to move that over to any newer Tesla they purchase free of charge, as they did pay for it, yet never got it until they can provide it on a car reliably.

 

[Maximillan]

I too would much prefer to have the option of having non distance aware cruise control over the dogs breakfast that it is at the moment.

 

[moa999]

Anyone received 2022.24.x for a non GF Shanghai build?

Got 2022.24.6 on my US build SR+ today.
Confirmed driving home that follow distance minimum is now 2.

No noticeable difference using AP through the Sydney Harbour Tunnel and surroundings.

The car does seem to be showing a lot more detail of other cars and graphics compared to previous

 

[EcoCloudIT]

I suspect if/when they crack the issues with Tesla vision that part of the solution is going to be hardware based, e.g. better cameras. If that happens they better offer something to the existing customers to get their systems fixed or I have a hunch a class lawsuit will come their way...

Pay for FSD and you'll get the updated hardware....my wife's Model X (mid-2018 build date) came with HW2.5 (or some such thing they called it) and she paid for FSD...Tesla quite some times ago upgraded her to HW3.0....I would rightly assume Tesla will have to upgrade anything that is hardware depenent to anyone with FSD.

That said, Tesla could just wait to release FSD to Australia until more of the cars that have paid for FSD are so old and been resold etc....makes me not want to upgrade her X to a new X....

 

[paulp]

Sept. 2021 M3P got 2022.24.6 yesterday.

Immediately took it for a 10 minute drive down a highway to try vision-based AP and came back disappointed.

It phantom braked twice. Once when it was driving past a metal barrier, and another when it was completely free on all 3 lanes.

In the past there was a way to trigger diagnostic data to be sent back to Tesla by holding the T on a MS. Is there similar ways to submit feedback in our cars these days?

You cannot and have never been able to send diagnostic data to tesla. Holding the T and other methods merely put a time stamp on the data so that when you contacted tesla with an issue it was easier for them to find it in the data

 

[MNoICE618]

Sept. 2021 M3P got 2022.24.6 yesterday.

Immediately took it for a 10 minute drive down a highway to try vision-based AP and came back disappointed.

It phantom braked twice. Once when it was driving past a metal barrier, and another when it was completely free on all 3 lanes.

In the past there was a way to trigger diagnostic data to be sent back to Tesla by holding the T on a MS. Is there similar ways to submit feedback in our cars these days?

Press the RHS voice command button, say

bug report <your issue>
in one sentence

the screen will Thankyou Igor submitting a report and give you a lthumbs up

 

[lazjen]

I too would much prefer to have the option of having non distance aware cruise control over the dogs breakfast that it is at the moment.

I've had the car now for just over 1 week, and on Friday I got upgraded to 2022.24.5. I think I have to give up on TACC as the phantom braking makes things too unsafe.

Auto-steer doesn't deal with cornering very well - it's like a rank beginner that turns late and doesn't follow a good driving line. Too fixated with being in the middle of the lane all the time.

And now I'm getting overly sensitive lane departure warnings/corrections happening (without Autopilot engaged) - mostly for being too close to the left side of the lane.

 

[Leeroy]

I upgraded to 2022.24.6 yesterday. Drove 130km with it and AP seemed much the same. The new high beam nonesense does change the way the left stalk works now, previously pull for momentary high beam and push for continuous. Now the push function just activated auto high beam on/off. You can get it back to the old way but there’s a bit of flashing with the lights to get it back to the old setup.

Drove again this morning in some stop/start traffic and AP was hunting left/right continuously below 10km/h. Was commical watching the steeeing wheel hunt back and forth.

 

[Bluebay]

I upgraded to 2022.24.6 yesterday. Drove 130km with it and AP seemed much the same. The new high beam nonesense does change the way the left stalk works now, previously pull for momentary high beam and push for continuous. Now the push function just activated auto high beam on/off. You can get it back to the old way but there’s a bit of flashing with the lights to get it back to the old setup.

Drove again this morning in some stop/start traffic and AP was hunting left/right continuously below 10km/h. Was commical watching the steeeing wheel hunt back and forth.

Sounds like it might be a good upgrade to give a miss to.. and wait and see what happens in 2022.24.7 or whichever comes next , instead.

 

[technerdx6000]

Theres no way I'm going to Tesla Vision yet. Heard too many horror stories from the US. For some reason Tesla still doesn't seem to be using the vision stack from FSD which appears to be much better. I think I'll be sticking to 2022.20.8 for a long time

 

[Priit]

Theres no way I'm going to Tesla Vision yet. Heard too many horror stories from the US. For some reason Tesla still doesn't seem to be using the vision stack from FSD which appears to be much better. I think I'll be sticking to 2022.20.8 for a long time

Yea, I noticed the difference after the 2022.24.6 update. The distance to the car in front has grown, the car also seems less confident and constantly adjusting for the center of the lane. It used to be way more stable before. And it does seem to hesitate and tap the breaks way more often depending on what is happing in the lanes next to it. Also going up hill, if it cannot see the road, it wants to really slow don as it would expect the road to end at the top of the hill. This vision based system needs some serious improvement to catch up to the radar/vision hybrid system level.

 

[moa999]

noticed the difference

Strange. Very different to my experience and I can't imagine many of those things were radar impacted.
Radar can't see over a hill either.

I actually suspect for months there has been pretty minimal usage of radar in all builds as they move towards a common code base.

 

[Maximillan]

Theres no way I'm going to Tesla Vision yet. Heard too many horror stories from the US. For some reason Tesla still doesn't seem to be using the vision stack from FSD which appears to be much better. I think I'll be sticking to 2022.20.8 for a long time

I'm on the same version and wondering how it can get much worse, but I'm sure that it's possible.

If you use Autopilot does it then switch you to auto high beams as well?

 

[BreatheSafe]

I actually suspect for months there has been pretty minimal usage of radar in all builds as they move towards a common code base.

I doubt it, they would not have made note of it in the update and teslavision is a song and dance type of thing for Elon.
Also USA being so litigious they would not risk it.

Your night time drives with AP are about to become painful.....

 

[Hairyman]

My car’s release notes have Tesla Vision in 2022.20.x. I have had more phantom braking with it. I haven’t had problems with the auto high beams yet.