Tesla Supercharger network

[Bet TSLA]

Once Tesla Motors makes the distribution and availability of Superchargers equitable, then this controversy dissolves.

What controversy? Oh, you mean people on this forum arguing with each other over what Tesla ought to be doing? You actually think anybody at Tesla cares? Why should they? No matter what they do at this point a bunch of people will be poorly served. No matter what they do at this point they can't build cars fast enough to supply all the people who want them.

If you want to increase the chance that Tesla builds superchargers where you want them, then find good spots with amenable landowners. Exercise your influence with local politicians. Let Tesla know. If you don't want to do that, then just accept that superchargers will appear where Tesla deems they make the most sense to them.

Me, I think Tesla is experimenting with a few different deployment models. Los Angeles looks one way. Germany looks another. London is very different. Then there's New Mexico. And Australia is a whole 'nother thing. There's a long way to go and Model 3 is coming. What we see now is just the beginning of the beginning. Tesla is trying things and seeing how people behave and what configurations encourage the kind of behavior they want. And for sure one thing they're observing is that no matter what they do people will complain endlessly about it. So what's the point of paying any attention to the complaining?

 

[purplewalt]

...If you want to increase the chance that Tesla builds superchargers where you want them, then find good spots with amenable landowners. Exercise your influence with local politicians. Let Tesla know. If you don't want to do that, then just accept that superchargers will appear where Tesla deems they make the most sense to them....

I have met with and corresponded with Tesla personnel responsible for developing Supercharger network(s).

There are at least two locations that Tesla already has identified which are located in Texas, East of DFW.
And they have been identified for almost two years.

Why they have NOT acted on them yet (even just getting permits going) is all locked deep inside Tesla's head.

...Guess they need to add another Supercharger elsewhere first.


And don't think Tesla does not scan these Forums, because they do.
Now, whether to take any of it to heart and develop a game plan to act and resolve issues, that is another matter.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I have met with and corresponded with Tesla personnel responsible for developing Supercharger network(s).

Well, good for you if you provided them useful information.

There are at least two locations that Tesla already has identified which are located in Texas, East of DFW.
And they have been identified for almost two years.

Then obviously they're not yet ready to build out a route to somewhere east of DFW. Is there any traffic to speak of to Memphis or Shreveport?

And don't think Tesla does not scan these Forums, because they do.
Now, whether to take any of it to heart and develop a game plan to act and resolve issues, that is another matter.

I'm sure they have some intern or something filtering all the forums for meaningful stuff. I've definitely seen posts from people saying that somebody at Tesla had noticed a problem with their car that they had described here, so they got a call. But I seriously doubt that anybody is giving any credence to complaints about there not being superchargers where people would like. Or service centers. Or issues with a GUI they haven't used. It's just noise.

Unless it's Elon Musk complaining. I'm pretty sure if he wanted to take a family vacation through East Texas we'd see some re-prioritizing. Likewise, I can say with some confidence that he's not planning to visit Yellowstone in a Model S any time soon. But he wouldn't be doing his complaining here.

 

[Andyw2100]

But I seriously doubt that anybody is giving any credence to <snip> Or issues with a GUI they haven't used. It's just noise.

The two different versions of the UI we saw today, which are very likely to be v. 7.0 and v 7.1, could be a strong argument against the statement above.

 

[ScepticMatt]

I checked the Tesla China supercharger map and there are a few new superchargers life right now.

Hefei: 找到我们 | 特斯拉ä¸*国 - Tesla Motors
Nanchang: 找到我们 | 特斯拉ä¸*国 - Tesla Motors
Handan: 找到我们 | 特斯拉ä¸*国 - Tesla Motors
Jiangmen: 找到我们 | 特斯拉ä¸*国 - Tesla Motors

(baidu map BD-09 coordinates are offset, you can't put them on WGS 84/GCJ-02 coordinate systems like supercharge.info directly)

Shanghai Hongqiao is also marked in a different location than on supercharge.info, and Shanghai-Minhang isn't on the Chinese map at all.

Hefei and Nanchang user report (charging at Hefei)

Source: http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-46032894-1.html

I haven't checked in a while because Tesla has updated it's international site pretty quickly, but it seems they have been lagging behind again.

 

[Drucifer]

Part of the problem is where Tesla is actually putting Superchargers. For example, look at this map:

View attachment 97871

The original image is from supercharge.info, so you can see the existing Superchargers. They are near cities. The pinkish dots is where Superchargers should be for just long distance travel, assuming one needs a Supercharger to boost between cities.

I suspect that if Tesla had $2 billion up front to make a Supercharger network, they would not have deployed them the way they have thus far. Instead, it makes more sense to have them about 20 miles outside of cities on all major routes. That way, there is a Supercharger near-ish to the city so that you can grab a charge on your way out if you need it or grab a charge on your way in as you are running low.

The challenge is that the cities is where routes cross. Put a supercharger in Atlantic Station in the middle of Atlanta and it serves traffic on I-85 , I-75 and I-20. It is a 3 for 1 deal. Greenville serves I-26 and I-85, Chattanooga I-75, I-59 and I-24 - another 3 for 1.

You have a pink dot north Commerce, GA, where there are no amenities. In fact, a lot of your pink dots are in locations that have nothing more than an gas station, a convenience store and maybe a McDonald's or Waffle House. Commerce, GA is a location that was on the coming soon map that has been removed. Your map solves the freeloader problem, but at the cost of more superchargers that serve less routes, and puts superchargers where there is nothing to do and no food beyond beef jerky, pork rinds and whatever hot dogs have been sitting on the heat rollers for the last 12 hours.

 

[David99]

"Placing them only 50-100 miles outside of cities would mean that Los Angeles County as well as Orange County would have absolutely zero Superchargers."

And that is the way it should be.
There should be ZERO Superchargers inside Los Angeles County, unless they are solely being used by transients on long distance travel.
The Locals who are abusing the privilege of Supercharging because they are so many, and so close inside the City, well, that is just wrong.

Tesla clearly disagrees with you, so ... I'm not sure what your point here is.

 

[wayner]

Tesla clearly disagrees with you, so ... I'm not sure what your point here is.

I don't think they clearly disagree as they are sending letters to people who use local chargers on a regular basis.

 

[David99]

I don't think they clearly disagree as they are sending letters to people who use local chargers on a regular basis.

purewalt's point was there should not be any SC within LA and OC County. Tesla clearly thinks differently as they built a few there and even plan more. Locals and long distance driving are entirely separate issues even though they can happen in the same physical space. Not building SCs in an area with the highest Model S density and the most miles driven anywhere in the country because a few locals us them as well makes zero sense.

 

[jvonbokel]

At the top of the Supercharger page, it says:

Superchargers are free connectors that charge Model S in minutes instead of hours. Stations are strategically placed to minimize stops during long distance travel and are conveniently located near restaurants, shopping centers, and WiFi hot spots.

However, towards the bottom it also says under "Expansion Plans" (emphasis mine):

We strategically place Superchargers along well-traveled highways and in congested city centers.

It seems to me that their strategy has evolved over time, and may continue to evolve. I think they've realized that they can tolerate some amount of local charging if it enables them to sell to apartment dwellers who might not otherwise consider buying. Superchargers inside city limits are also helpful to out-of-town travelers who don't happen to be staying at one of the hotels that provides overnight charging (i.e. Destination Charging or a standard J1772 charger).

 

[bollar]

Then obviously they're not yet ready to build out a route to somewhere east of DFW. Is there any traffic to speak of to Memphis or Shreveport?

Yes -- Dallas / Shreveport is actually the highest traffic route in Texas without Supercharger coverage.

 

[Andyw2100]

The location has been discovered, and work has started on the Binghamton, NY Supercharger. The location is The Spot Restaurant, just off Route 81, close to the Route 88 Interchange, and not far from Route 17.

Details in this thread:

Binghamton, NY Supercharger

 

[DFiveK2]

Thank goodness for Binghamton. That's a major connector between the biggest city in Canada and the biggest city in the United States.

i think that's why people have been frustrated with the buildout. They see MULTIPLE SC being built out in California where already you can go anywhere... And can't go directly out of NYC to Toronto. Both of which have major major numbers of Tesla owners.

Please don't tell me about Going through Albany.. That adds at least an hour or more to the trip which is an unreasonable inconvenience.

The owners like me in Eastern mid tier cities are going to have to take the ICE on road trips or convince the family that 3 extra hours drive to go anywhere makes sense. Sitting waiting for 10 minutes at a busy SC in California is not a concern compared to that.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

... I think they've realized that they can tolerate some amount of local charging if it enables them to sell to apartment dwellers who might not otherwise consider buying. Superchargers inside city limits are also helpful to out-of-town travelers who don't happen to be staying at one of the hotels that provides overnight charging (i.e. Destination Charging or a standard J1772 charger).

Super! So we can count on those locals who could[/] charge at home, to unplug graciously if the site starts filling up, as Noland says they obviously do, in favor of transient chargers (or the garageless locals)?
I'm down with that. Certainly I'll do that here.

 

[ggr]

purewalt's point was there should not be any SC within LA and OC County. Tesla clearly thinks differently as they built a few there and even plan more. Locals and long distance driving are entirely separate issues even though they can happen in the same physical space. Not building SCs in an area with the highest Model S density and the most miles driven anywhere in the country because a few locals us them as well makes zero sense.

The superchargers in LA county are not clustered around LA, they're around LAX. This is an important area for people from a long way away, even though it's in a city.

 

[dgpcolorado]

The superchargers in LA county are not clustered around LA, they're around LAX. This is an important area for people from a long way away, even though it's in a city.

Also, those Superchargers help with north-south travel. How can someone from San Diego go up I-5 to SF without a charge in the LA basin? San Juan Capistrano to Tejon Ranch is 156 miles and includes Tejon Pass, elevation 4144 feet. Not all the travel in the area originates in LA/Orange County and heads outbound.

I think that some folks from other parts of the country don't appreciate just how sprawling the Southern California metro area really is. In order to traverse the gigantic metro complex there needs to be some Supercharger stations located along the freeway routes. And there isn't any place to put them where they aren't near local populations.

Some decades ago the Commandant of the Camp Pendleton Marine Corps Base made a wry comment to the effect that the main purpose of Camp Pendleton was to keep LA and San Diego from merging. That hasn't changed: it is about the only undeveloped area left in a 160+ mile stretch of I-5 from the Mexican border to Sylmar, on the north end of the San Fernando Valley. No Supercharger stations in LA and Orange Counties would be absurd!

My 2¢.

 

[jvonbokel]

Super! So we can count on those locals who could charge at home, to unplug graciously if the site starts filling up, as Noland says they obviously do, in favor of transient chargers (or the garageless locals)?
I'm down with that. Certainly I'll do that here.

I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be sarcasm. Certainly Tesla wants people to charge at home locally when possible, as evidenced by their (poorly targeted) e-mail notice, but my interpretation of this text is that it implies that there also exist some situations where charging will not expressly be to enable long-distance travel. It's certainly open to other interpretations, and I think that's partly intentional.

 

[Chuq]

Also, those Superchargers help with north-south travel. How can someone from San Diego go up I-5 to SF without a charge in the LA basin?

Just as easily with or without these SCs?

 

[SW2Fiddler]

I honestly can't tell if this is meant to be sarcasm.

Safest to assume I'm sincere, eh? I do leave my text number with the Tesla staff if I plug in to their HPWC at the Gallery and go have lunch, in case someone from farther away needs me to unlock the port.

I was referring to Mr. Noland's statement of intent, which I take as sincere (not that there'll be congestion at Newburgh):

Transients take priority

Another factor to consider in local Supercharging: I may be occupying a charger badly needed by a Model S in transit.

Obviously, if there are only one or two spaces available, I’ll stay with the car and quickly give up my space to any transient Model S that appears.

But with the six spaces at the Newburgh Supercharger, I doubt I’ll ever run into that situation.

Ensuring a resource is not leaking comes before building up its output. When considering residential solar, do we not first insulate and fill gaps?

 

[Cottonwood]

Just as easily with or without these SCs?

View attachment 98187

Remember that there are capacity issues as well. I pulled into the Hawthorne Supercharger 1.5 years ago when there were many fewer Model S's around and 6 stalls at Hawthorne. I filled the last stall. In talking to the other folks there, the closest that any of them came to being local was someone with an office a few miles away that had to do a road trip with little notice and stopped by for a quick top up (that was not abuse in my book).

That was a normal week day afternoon, 1.5 years ago. Not only do I not mind Tesla putting in the extra Superchargers to handle capacity, I applaud it. If there are a few local folks who abuse the Superchargers (for some reason, it seems to be worst with Orange County retirees who think there time is worth less than $10/hr), then Tesla will handle it.

If 15-20% of North American Superchargers go to California, it is good for all of us. Avoiding queues at Superchargers will help Tesla succeed with good PR, and Tesla's success is good for all of us that want to keep using our current and future Teslas!

Besides, 80-85% to the rest of the country is not too bad...