Tesla Supercharger network

[evp]

Finally got a chance to take a picture of the trip plot for Denver Supercharger Station to Silverthorne:

The dip in the plot is the Eisenhower Tunnel, elevation 11,158 ft (3,401 m). Just charging to make Silverthorne might not be enough!

Fun fact: The little nipple (which you thoughtfully painted in red) is where you go through the Eisenhower tunnel. The tunnel is flat, so that section should be close to flat as well. But the energy calculator thinks you're going over not through the mountain.

Other fun fact: you'll get 8 or 9 miles of range back on the section between the tunnel and Silverthorne, at 40 to 60 kW of continuous regen. Oddly, the range calculator seems to go backwards in steps of 3 miles. I've seen it do that all the way from Pikes Peak to the Colo Sprgs SpC -- it displayed 20, 23, 26 ... 41 miles.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Fun fact: The little nipple (which you thoughtfully painted in red) is where you go through the Eisenhower tunnel. The tunnel is flat, so that section should be close to flat as well. But the energy calculator thinks you're going over not through the mountain...

The red comes from the Tesla trip planner. Yellow is below 20% (on my S-60) and red starts in the 6-7% range; below about 3% it stops estimating % charge and just goes to "--", which is when it flashes a message to keep speed below some number (I've seen everything from 70 mph to 55 mph in 5 mph increments). And, yes, energy plots based on Google maps seem to assume going over the ridge not a couple of miles of relatively level tunnel.

 

[tinm]

More news. I think I found where the Las Cruces supercharger is gonna go. It's right near the junction of I-25 and I-10.

Supercharger - Las Cruces, NM

 

[ecarfan]

Today I was plugged into the 1A pedestal at harris Ranch Supercharger in California. There was only one other car there charging. An S 70D pulls into 1B. I explained to the driver, a new owner, about paired stalls and why she should pick another stall. She thanked me and moved her car. A few minutes later another S pulls into 1B. Again I explained why another stall would be better. The driver had owned his car for a year. He thanks me and moved to another stall. Several minutes later a new S pulls into 1B. Again I explained. The driver seemed to understand what I was telling him, he thanked me, and then he and his passengers walked off to have lunch. He didn't move his car.

It baffles me as to why Tesla does not make it a mandatory part of vehicle delivery and owner orientation to explain how Supercharger paired stalls work. It wasn't explained to me when I took delivery in December 2013, I only knew it from reading TMC.

 

[ohmman]

Today I was plugged into the 1A pedestal at harris Ranch Supercharger in California. There was only one other car there charging. An S 70D pulls into 1B. I explained to the driver, a new owner, about paired stalls and why she should pick another stall. She thanked me and moved her car. A few minutes later another S pulls into 1B. Again I explained why another stall would be better. The driver had owned his car for a year. He thanks me and moved to another stall. Several minutes later a new S pulls into 1B. Again I explained. The driver seemed to understand what I was telling him, he thanked me, and then he and his passengers walked off to have lunch. He didn't move his car.

It baffles me as to why Tesla does not make it a mandatory part of vehicle delivery and owner orientation to explain how Supercharger paired stalls work. It wasn't explained to me when I took delivery in December 2013, I only knew it from reading TMC.

It's been almost two months since I posted this, so I guess it's time to say it again. Why don't we get a full screen pop-up on the 17" that tells us this stuff when we arrive at a Supercharger? What else would be nice? Oh, why we shouldn't park overnight at a hotel Supercharger, what restaurants are nearby, and any other pertinent information. But initially - just a list of etiquette and tips for charging. Nobody could miss them. And the development cost would be pretty low, from my dev experience.

 

[bmah]

It's been almost two months since I posted this, so I guess it's time to say it again. Why don't we get a full screen pop-up on the 17" that tells us this stuff when we arrive at a Supercharger? What else would be nice? Oh, why we shouldn't park overnight at a hotel Supercharger, what restaurants are nearby, and any other pertinent information. But initially - just a list of etiquette and tips for charging. Nobody could miss them. And the development cost would be pretty low, from my dev experience.

The development cost might be low, but if it were some organizations I've worked in before, there would be months of bikeshedding over the contents and wording of that pop-up!

Related thought I had last night: It'd be desirable and possibly straightforward to display the data for a Supercharger (I'm thinking of what's displayed on the Tesla Web site, which lists nearby restaurants, shopping, etc.) on the CID, either when you select a Supercharger on the nav, or as you approach its coordinates (maybe using geofencing?). It's already available as a blob of JSON from Tesla, and (pure speculation here) it's possible that data might be cached on the car already in its database of chargers.

Bruce.

 

[tinm]

It's been almost two months since I posted this, so I guess it's time to say it again. Why don't we get a full screen pop-up on the 17" that tells us this stuff when we arrive at a Supercharger? What else would be nice? Oh, why we shouldn't park overnight at a hotel Supercharger, what restaurants are nearby, and any other pertinent information. But initially - just a list of etiquette and tips for charging. Nobody could miss them. And the development cost would be pretty low, from my dev experience.

Face it, it's human nature. Tesla often doesn't take human nature into account in the design of -- and preparing new customers for -- the driving and charging experience. I can't tell you how many new owners I've met who knew nothing about superchargers or how to operate 3/4 of the car's features.

Perhaps what they should have done with supercharger sites is not pair 1A, 1B, etc. They should have just had charger stalls 1, 2, 3, 4, . . . N, and then have smart switches at the transformer level that route energy the right way. Maybe 1 and 2 are by default paired. But if you're at slot 1 and someone pulls into slot 2, Tesla's hardware -- at the charger site, not in the car -- should do the right thing and route another untapped supercharger's full power to slot 2. Then if a car pulls into slot 3 or 6, doesn't matter what, same thing. Keep going as far as you can until the N/2 point, giving each car a full supply of power. Anybody after that point . . . oh well.

 

[ecarfan]

Why don't we get a full screen pop-up on the 17" that tells us this stuff when we arrive at a Supercharger?

Excellent idea and seemingly not difficult to implement, but...

The development cost might be low, but if it were some organizations I've worked in before, there would be months of bikeshedding over the contents and wording of that pop-up!

Heh. I had to look up "bikeshedding" because I had never seen it before. Thank you for expanding my horizons of geekdom.

So now a challenge: in less than 40 words, clearly explain why not to plug in at an in-use paired stall. Example:

Optimal charging rates are provided when your Tesla is plugged into a stall whose "paired" twin stall is empty: check the stall numbers at the base of the pedestals and if possible avoid using 1B if 1A is in use.

This statement could be shown at the top of @ohmman 's "Supercharger Info Box" pop up, in addition to basic information about that specific Supercharger location. There could even be a "More" link at the end of that statement providing a more detailed (but not excessively detailed explanation of how Supercharger paired stalls work (this description is based on the US Superchargers, details may vary overseas):

Paired stalls (e.g. 1A and 1B) are powered at 480V/200A by a bank of rectifiers that together may deliver over 100kW in total to the two stalls. The first Tesla to plug into one of the two paired stalls receives as much DC power (kW) as its battery can safely handle (as determined by the Tesla Battery Management System in the vehicle) which may be less than the maximum that can be delivered by the Supercharger. If a second Tesla then plugs into the other paired stall it receives the balance of what the Supercharger can deliver. As the first cars battery is charged up the kW being delivered gradually decreases and more power is then delivered to the second car plugged into the paired stall.

I know that 10 different Tesla enthusiasts will write 10 very different descriptions, all correct and all varying in the detail provided. One could write paragraphs about this topic but that would not be necessary; the longer the description the fewer people that will read it. The description above is just my example and it may contain errors so feel free to correct me.

Note I wrote "deliver over 100kW..." as I did not want to specify an exact number since not only can the maximum kW vary depending on the original design of a Supercharger location but I also did not want a Tesla owner to expect a specific maximum number when they plug in since we know that can vary quite a bit depending on their state of charge and whether or not the Supercharger is working properly.

I really wish Tesla would implement something like that. Every owner needs to know the basics of paired stall charging.

 

[Saghost]

Excellent idea and seemingly not difficult to implement, but...
Heh. I had to look up "bikeshedding" because I had never seen it before. Thank you for expanding my horizons of geekdom.

So now a challenge: in less than 40 words, clearly explain why not to plug in at an in-use paired stall. Example:

Optimal charging rates are provided when your Tesla is plugged into a stall whose "paired" twin stall is empty: check the stall numbers at the base of the pedestals and if possible avoid using 1B if 1A is in use.

This statement could be shown at the top of @ohmman 's "Supercharger Info Box" pop up, in addition to basic information about that specific Supercharger location. There could even be a "More" link at the end of that statement providing a more detailed (but not excessively detailed explanation of how Supercharger paired stalls work (this description is based on the US Superchargers, details may vary overseas):

Paired stalls (e.g. 1A and 1B) are powered at 480V/200A by a bank of rectifiers that together may deliver over 100kW in total to the two stalls. The first Tesla to plug into one of the two paired stalls receives as much DC power (kW) as its battery can safely handle (as determined by the Tesla Battery Management System in the vehicle) which may be less than the maximum that can be delivered by the Supercharger. If a second Tesla then plugs into the other paired stall it receives the balance of what the Supercharger can deliver. As the first cars battery is charged up the kW being delivered gradually decreases and more power is then delivered to the second car plugged into the paired stall.

I know that 10 different Tesla enthusiasts will write 10 very different descriptions, all correct and all varying in the detail provided. One could write paragraphs about this topic but that would not be necessary; the longer the description the fewer people that will read it. The description above is just my example and it may contain errors so feel free to correct me.

Note I wrote "deliver over 100kW..." as I did not want to specify an exact number since not only can the maximum kW vary depending on the original design of a Supercharger location but I also did not want a Tesla owner to expect a specific maximum number when they plug in since we know that can vary quite a bit depending on their state of charge and whether or not the Supercharger is working properly.

I really wish Tesla would implement something like that. Every owner needs to know the basics of paired stall charging.

I'm still hoping for a simpler option that does away with all the wording questions - when you approach the site Geofence, you should get a pop-up map that highlights a stall and tells you that's the optimum one for you.

When the site is busy, it'll be the one with the most available power; when it's less busy, Tesla can use an algorithm to level the wear and tear across all of the fully functional stalls (and route folks away from damaged or power limited stalls as well as paired stalls, with no confusing language.)

If the system is up to it, it'd be nice to have a Supercharger autopark, too - similar to the current automated parking, but it automatically goes to the optimum stall, and places the car close enough for the cord to reach.

 

[napabill]

Today I was plugged into the 1A pedestal at harris Ranch Supercharger in California. There was only one other car there charging. An S 70D pulls into 1B. I explained to the driver, a new owner, about paired stalls and why she should pick another stall. She thanked me and moved her car. A few minutes later another S pulls into 1B. Again I explained why another stall would be better. The driver had owned his car for a year. He thanks me and moved to another stall. Several minutes later a new S pulls into 1B. Again I explained. The driver seemed to understand what I was telling him, he thanked me, and then he and his passengers walked off to have lunch. He didn't move his car.

It baffles me as to why Tesla does not make it a mandatory part of vehicle delivery and owner orientation to explain how Supercharger paired stalls work. It wasn't explained to me when I took delivery in December 2013, I only knew it from reading TMC.

The solution seems clear. When at Harris Ranch use stall 4A. Stay away from 1a/b as they are the first stalls as you pull into the parking area.

 

[Dave EV]

I really wish Tesla would implement something like that. Every owner needs to know the basics of paired stall charging.

That's too complicated for the average Joe. The average Joe just wants to plug their car in and forget about it.

If Tesla wanted to make this simple they'd just have some sort of indicator on each still that showed whether or not a stall was not capable of providing 100+ kW or something because it's partially in use or has other issues.

 

[SW2Fiddler]

One could write paragraphs about this topic but that would not be necessary; the longer the description the fewer people that will read it.

Share a Letter, the juice is Better
(optional) Share a Number, makes it slower and Dumber

Full Disclosure: I work for Marketing folks, but I'm just an IT analyst

 

[tinm]

That's too complicated for the average Joe. The average Joe just wants to plug their car in and forget about it.

If Tesla wanted to make this simple they'd just have some sort of indicator on each still that showed whether or not a stall was not capable of providing 100+ kW or something because it's partially in use or has other issues.

Gotta disagree here. Like I said a few posts back, if Tesla wanted to make this simple they would make it invisible, handled by hardware switches and smarts onsite.You would pull up to any open charger and charge at the max power your car can take at that moment. If there are 10 charging spaces, up to 5 random spaces would deliver full power. If it gets busier than that well drivers will start seeing a reduction in charge, but for the typically quiet rural supercharger site things would be much better for up to the first half of total charging spaces in use, meaning almost all the time.

 

[RichardL]

A long time ago there was the suggestion of 'traffic lights' - either on the stalls, or a display inside the car. Green means 'good to go', amber 'will work but with reduced speed', red 'there is a problem, do not use'. Being able to see that in the car while en route, would also give an indication of likely problems when arriving

No need to get into pairing and power sharing, most people would understand (I hope!)

 

[tinm]

To me it all boils down to the question: should the driver have to do something, or should Tesla do something for the driver?

For me the answer's a no-brainer. It's Tesla's job.

 

[4SUPER9]

These are all great suggestions. @tinm, that sounds like beautiful and elegant solution, and while I really like this idea the most, it also sounds highly complex and expensive to build. In fact, anything that adds to the cost of the build is likely not feasible, though possibly later in the game as new sites get built and old sites get revised.

@ecarfan, education sounds logical, but is only effective if the student wants to learn and remember. Most Tesla drivers are not on this site, and do not care enough to learn. We do, and we are not the problem. Pop-ups, as you suggested, are a great idea. "Just in time learning" works better than feeding information at a time that people don't need it or do not care.

@Saghost, this makes sense to me. There are no changes in hardware needed: not to the car or the SC site. 8.1 is supposed to show us the nearby SC status. To what extent, we do not know at this time. Your solution seems like an easy fix. Arrive and it could have a screen with each stall that is best. Red is unavailable, Orange is slow (paired), Green is optimum. Or, to keeps this even more simple, just green for any stall that is best. The "average Joe" does not need to know why (nor do they care).

 

[Drucifer]

Part of the challenge is the pairings are different in different locations.

Most locations: 1A,1B,2A,2B,3A,3B
Some I've been to: 1A,2A,3A,1B,2B,3B

 

[kort677]

Part of the challenge is the pairings are different in different locations.

Most locations: 1A,1B,2A,2B,3A,3B
Some I've been to: 1A,2A,3A,1B,2B,3B

yes, the setups change from location to location. I don't think it is very difficult to read the numbers and easily discern which stall would be the better stall to charge at because of regardless of the physical layout of the particular SpC you still should avoid if possible sharing chargers, stay off the B if the corresponding A is occupied.

 

[Rocky_H]

yes, the setups change from location to location. I don't think it is very difficult to read the numbers and easily discern which stall would be the better stall to charge at because of regardless of the physical layout of the particular SpC you still should avoid if possible sharing chargers, stay off the B if the corresponding A is occupied.

I agree that the explanation doesn't need to sound complicated when you describe it to people in person or with a popup. Better than lights with no explanation of what they mean. I slightly emphasize the word number. "Each number represents a stack of the charging hardware, so it's best not to be sharing the same number as another car."

 

[ohmman]

I agree that the explanation doesn't need to sound complicated when you describe it to people in person or with a popup. Better than lights with no explanation of what they mean. I slightly emphasize the word number. "Each number represents a stack of the charging hardware, so it's best not to be sharing the same number as another car."

Right, I don't think it's terribly complicated to explain. Also, I think it's important to emphasize that the reader has something to gain by paying attention to the advice. "Each number represents shared charging hardware, and your car will charge more slowly if you are the second one to plug into the shared stack." Or similar.

But yes, I respect that wording can be discussed forever. The thing is, any wording is better than what we have now, which is "good luck with all that!"