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Tesla Supercharger network
- Thread starter dsm363
- Start date
While that would work for charge ports in the center of the trunk, charge ports on other cars might be on the side, by the driver's door or at the rear on the passenger's side. The existing Supercharger cables probably wouldn't reach from the correct stall. They might be able to reach from the next stall over but then that car would be blocking a second Supercharger.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
That would work for some cars but I think that the charge port for the Chevy Bolt, for example, is too far back from the front for a short Supercharger cable to reach, at least for the typical back-in stall layout.
A long extension cable when pulling hundreds of amperes doesn't sound cheap nor thin...
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Likely quite thick. Have you seen those long Supercharger cables they use in the Service Centers?
Nevertheless, what other option is available for charge ports not on the front or back of the car? My guess is that the adapters will be current limited to something less than recent Teslas can pull, for safety reasons.
Or, perhaps, this plan to allow other cars to use the Supercharger network will not happen. Or non Tesla cars will be limited to specially designed stalls.
In the US, I could see them doing something similar to how they upgraded the existing v2 Supercharger stalls in Europe when the Model 3 was released. Initially, they added a couple CCS cables to existing Superchargers at each location. This allowed the Model 3 to charge without requiring Tesla to upgrade every single stall. At new v3 Superchargers, all stalls got the new CCS plug.
In order to accommodate other EVs in the US, perhaps Tesla will modify a small number of stalls at each Supercharger location, such as 2 stalls at an 8 stall Supercharger. This way, Teslas would still have priority since all stalls would still have Tesla plugs but other EVs would be limited to the stalls that have the additional CCS cables. Tesla could monitor CCS plug usage at each location and upgrade additional stalls as needed.
In the future, if Tesla decides to install a native CCS port in addition to or by replacing the proprietary Tesla port on new vehicles, they could increase the number of CCS cables per Supercharger location. New Supercharger locations could be CCS only and require an adapter for older S & X to use. 3 & Y (and perhaps new S & X) could have the proprietary charge ports swapped out.
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Or perhaps part of the solution to the problem is that Tesla just says that with an adaptor (like the J1772, or perhaps the larger CHAdeMO style) you can charge off the supercharger network. If, even with the adaptor, the charge cable still won't reach your charge port due to it's location on the car, well...sorry! They get the PR win for opening up the network, but 90% of the cars out there won't actually be able to utilize them. Then Tesla just says "we recognize this problem and future supercharger build-outs will hopefully address the issue. But in the meantime, they get the PR win, the Gov't dollars from the infrastructure plan, and nothing changes too much for current owners.
Then again, the cable can reach almost all EV's if you parked across the spots, blocking multiple stalls. (Those with side front drivers side charge ports....)
/edit. Or like Morrisonhiker mentions above, maybe future supercharger builds have both CCS and Tesla connectors like in Europe. That solves the adaptor issue, but not the charge port placement issue. But again, where the charge port is on the ID4 isn't Tesla's problem, it's the ID4 owner who wants to use the supercharger network's problem.
Then again, the cable can reach almost all EV's if you parked across the spots, blocking multiple stalls. (Those with side front drivers side charge ports....)
/edit. Or like Morrisonhiker mentions above, maybe future supercharger builds have both CCS and Tesla connectors like in Europe. That solves the adaptor issue, but not the charge port placement issue. But again, where the charge port is on the ID4 isn't Tesla's problem, it's the ID4 owner who wants to use the supercharger network's problem.
cpa
Active Member
Or.....
Tesla could license and sell their Supercharger port to the other makers. It would be installed at the rear of those vehicles. It would be an option for those buyers of those vehicles. Tesla takes a royalty off the top and provides the access software to complete the handshake and to set up billing arrangements. No adapter needed; just purchase the option when you configure your car.
Maybe this is not within the spirit of the legislation, or maybe it could be argued that it is. But it would more likely than not dissuade most buyers from forking out several hundred for a second charge port that they might not use all that often, especially if the Electrify America locations increase dramatically in the coming years.
And Tesla could also charge those people higher electricity rates that align more closely with the EA rates in the vicinity.
Tesla could license and sell their Supercharger port to the other makers. It would be installed at the rear of those vehicles. It would be an option for those buyers of those vehicles. Tesla takes a royalty off the top and provides the access software to complete the handshake and to set up billing arrangements. No adapter needed; just purchase the option when you configure your car.
Maybe this is not within the spirit of the legislation, or maybe it could be argued that it is. But it would more likely than not dissuade most buyers from forking out several hundred for a second charge port that they might not use all that often, especially if the Electrify America locations increase dramatically in the coming years.
And Tesla could also charge those people higher electricity rates that align more closely with the EA rates in the vicinity.
srs5694
Active Member
In terms of Federal money, that might or might not fly. It depends on how the legislation is written, and perhaps in how the relevant government agencies (and maybe even the courts) interpret the legislation and write regulations. A bad-faith "gotcha" loophole, such as you outline, strikes me as a good way to either be refused government money or invite a lawsuit -- and get knocked down a notch by the courts.
They could just put longer cables on the CCS plugs. That would solve the problem, and in the way every other DC fast charger network does, and without inviting CCS vehicles to park across two or three stalls. Of course, current Supercharger pedestals aren't designed with cable management for long cables in mind, so they'd probably need some sort of add-on to handle that; or if CCS were limited to new stalls, Tesla could redesign the pedestals to incorporate better cable management. They may need significant redesigns to comply with California's new regulations that require displays and credit card payment options, anyhow.
srs5694
Active Member
Tesla has supposedly made this offer already, with no takers. (Except possibly Aptera, which is still in the prototype stage.) Of course, things could change, but I don't see much motivation for established automakers to add Tesla ports at this point, particularly if Tesla is likely to open up Superchargers in one way or another anyhow.
There is also going to be an issue when large numbers of CT appear with trailers. Tesla really needs some interstate SC locations with pull through like gas stations (Europe has these). At that point they could add CCS connectors also and have federal money help pay for these new stations.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I saw some plans for more pull-through Superchargers late last year, but I don't know if those plans were ever implemented: Tesla is building Cybertruck Supercharger stalls
paulkva
part of the supercharge.info dev team
I was poking around my Tesla account today on the web, and discovered if you click on Charging, and then navigate to the last page, you get a list of monthly invoices you can download. This is likely not news for most people who pay for supercharging.
The invoices download as .csv files, and if you open it in Excel you can see UnitCostBase in column L, which has what I presume to be values that were accurate at the time, even if your car has free supercharging (mine does). It looks like there are 2 rows for each session so they can separate out idle fees.
The oldest invoice I could download was April 2017, and it looks a bit different since their pricing model is/was different for these locations:
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
What a find! Works for me just as you describe — I've long wondered what the rates were where I am charging. Thanks for your post!I was poking around my Tesla account today on the web, and discovered if you click on Charging, and then navigate to the last page, you get a list of monthly invoices you can download. This is likely not news for most people who pay for supercharging.
The invoices download as .csv files, and if you open it in Excel you can see UnitCostBase in column L, which has what I presume to be values that were accurate at the time, even if your car has free supercharging (mine does). It looks like there are 2 rows for each session so they can separate out idle fees.
View attachment 693400
The oldest invoice I could download was April 2017, and it looks a bit different since their pricing model is/was different for these locations:
View attachment 693401
For my long May trips, the highest I saw was 42¢/kWh at Corte Madera CA (Marin County) and the lowest was 15¢/kWh at Salt Lake City UT and 17¢/kWh at Hillsboro OR, at least for those states that allow billing by kWh.
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I can only speak for my Model 3: I've been averaging 2.5 cents per mile from home and about 8 cents per mile on the road (Superchargers). Prices vary by location and in some cases, time of day.
Great find by @paulkva! I have free unlimited supercharging and never thought I would ever know how much charging would have cost.
On my most recent trip last October I would have paid around $0.079 a mile, but I did destination charging at hotels too. It would have been more if all my miles were supercharged. I'm paying around $0.02/mi for charging at home. It was about $0.025/mi, but my car has become more efficient.
On the October trip I hit the same superchargers coming and going. Interestingly the supercharger stop at Grants Pass, OR on my return is missing.
The earliest I was able to get was May 2018.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Not sure how hard as I heard the president of Rivian reached out and could not get Tesla to talk or share on charging. And I will give Rivian credit for supplying all state parks in TN with Level 2 chargers!
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Interesting development... Glad to see this finally happening.
electrek.co
'Tesla has started to give back Supercharger access to owners of salvaged Tesla vehicles, reversing a move that angered many owners and that was contrary to Tesla’s mission. When vehicles are totaled in crashes, they are sold as salvaged vehicles. Some tech and mechanic savvy people buy those vehicles and disassemble them for parts or put them back into shape so they can go back on the road. It’s a great way to recycle vehicles and ensure more EVs stay on the road despite some inevitable crashes.
Tesla dealt a major blow to those people when it disabled their access to the Supercharger network and any third-party fast-charging.
The automaker claimed that it was a safety concern: “Tesla reserves the right to deactivate Supercharging capability on any vehicle we believe would be unsafe. If a vehicle is found to have been modified to enable Supercharging and/or fast-charging through third parties, Tesla may take legal action and seek compensation.”
Fast-charging is a very important feature for any electric vehicle, and without access to fast-charging networks, EVs are limited to short-distance drives. We and many others in the Tesla community were really critical of this move, which appeared to go against Tesla’s mission. At the minimum, if safety was really the concern, many were calling for Tesla to offer a path to inspect salvaged vehicles and enable back their access to fast charging, but it never happened. Today, Tesla hacker green reported that Tesla started enabling Supercharger access back to some salvaged vehicles: Many salvaged vehicle owners started confirming the good news:
Salvaged Model 3s were spared from Tesla’s no Supercharging policy for a long time, but they were banned from using the network in October. Now, they seem to be in the clear again, and Tesla didn’t explain any update to its security concern. Some owners of salvaged Model S vehicles are also reporting getting access back".
Tesla starts giving back Supercharger access to salvaged vehicles
Tesla has started to give back Supercharger access to owners of salvaged Tesla vehicles, reversing a move that angered many...
electrek.co
Tesla dealt a major blow to those people when it disabled their access to the Supercharger network and any third-party fast-charging.
The automaker claimed that it was a safety concern: “Tesla reserves the right to deactivate Supercharging capability on any vehicle we believe would be unsafe. If a vehicle is found to have been modified to enable Supercharging and/or fast-charging through third parties, Tesla may take legal action and seek compensation.”
Fast-charging is a very important feature for any electric vehicle, and without access to fast-charging networks, EVs are limited to short-distance drives. We and many others in the Tesla community were really critical of this move, which appeared to go against Tesla’s mission. At the minimum, if safety was really the concern, many were calling for Tesla to offer a path to inspect salvaged vehicles and enable back their access to fast charging, but it never happened. Today, Tesla hacker green reported that Tesla started enabling Supercharger access back to some salvaged vehicles: Many salvaged vehicle owners started confirming the good news:
Salvaged Model 3s were spared from Tesla’s no Supercharging policy for a long time, but they were banned from using the network in October. Now, they seem to be in the clear again, and Tesla didn’t explain any update to its security concern. Some owners of salvaged Model S vehicles are also reporting getting access back".
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Tesla Supercharger network to open to other automakers in Europe first
After months and years of speculation Elon Musk finally confirmed earlier this summer that Tesla will open their expansive Supercharger network to other automakers. The decision was a controversial one among Tesla owners with many […]
driveteslacanada.ca
"The opening of the Supercharger network in Europe makes sense for Tesla and will be the easiest implementation for other automakers.
EVs in Europe are equipped with CCS charge ports and will be able to use Tesla’s multi-port Superchargers that also have CCS plugs,
unlike those in North America that only feature Tesla’s proprietary charge port."
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The context to this is there are a few public funded stations in Europe and it's highly likely those are the stations they are going to release it first (as there is criticism of public funding going to Tesla exclusive stations). It remains to be seen if other stations are also open. US is also working on an infrastructure bill and Tesla would likely have to open their stations to get access to that money.Tesla Supercharger network to open to other automakers in Europe first
After months and years of speculation Elon Musk finally confirmed earlier this summer that Tesla will open their expansive Supercharger network to other automakers. The decision was a controversial one among Tesla owners with many […]
"The opening of the Supercharger network in Europe makes sense for Tesla and will be the easiest implementation for other automakers.
EVs in Europe are equipped with CCS charge ports and will be able to use Tesla’s multi-port Superchargers that also have CCS plugs,
unlike those in North America that only feature Tesla’s proprietary charge port."
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