The throttling we are talking about is a reduction of the maximum you will ever see. The packs have always had a taper to the charge rate.
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The throttling we are talking about is a reduction of the maximum you will ever see. The packs have always had a taper to the charge rate.
If you look in the front passenger wheel well you should be able to see a sticker on the battery pack and the last digit on the part number is the revision. (What year is your Model S?)
There is a difference between throttling and a normal taper. Regarding your last remark, are you seeing this behavior or something else:
More aggressive (sooner) supercharge taper on latest firmware?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think the taper is starting sooner and is more aggressive. However, I don't have data so this is just my anecdotal observation (FWIW).
I wasn't aware that they were limiting maximum charge rate on low SOC batteries.
I'm fine with them managing the battery charge. I assume that this will improve the life of the battery.
Wow Mike it looks like you're right and it is a A pack. I should ask tesla about getting my regular battery back. Explains the max 90kW charging.
Attachments
I have a D pack 85. It's 3.5 years old and has 130k miles on it. Supercharging is definitely slower than is used to be. At a typical Supercharging session I was still at 80 kW at 50% battery. At 80% state of charge it was still 50 kW. Now I get maybe 68 kW at 50% and around 40 kW at 80%. I wasn't able to collet data directly from the car when it was new like I can do now but roughly Supercharging is 15-20% slower than it was when my car was new.
On top of that I see an even more reduced charge rate often that is random that was never seen in the first years of owning my car. So there is definitely an effect of battery aging noticeable. Rage is also down from 270 to 246 miles.
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
Those numbers you gave for your original "typical" levels are so outlandish as to be hard to believe. The second set of numbers are really normal for those 85kwh packs. Charging rule of thumb was pretty accurate and almost linear for charge tapering on those. Add the % state of charge and kW charging power, and they equal about 120, plus or minus a little. Your first number of 80 + 50 is 130, and I've never heard of it that high in any point of charging. 68 + 50 is 118, and that's about right.
Never attempt to equate mph to kw. Mph is an average over the session whereas kw is an instantaneous reading.
80 kW at 50% is coompletely reasonable. The data are right here:
More aggressive (sooner) supercharge taper on latest firmware?
maybe 80 at 50% is a little high, but not far off. As i said, I don't have exact data any more, I just wrote down a few numbers. Frankly I never thought in the beginning that charge rates would ever be slower, but I was expecting that 4 years later we would see faster charge rates.
Edit:
just found this video from January 2014. The car is charging at a Supercharger at 98 kW at approximately 48% battery level. I assume it is an 85.
This video shows the 85 charging at 77 kW at 50%.
Edit:
just found this video from January 2014. The car is charging at a Supercharger at 98 kW at approximately 48% battery level. I assume it is an 85.
This video shows the 85 charging at 77 kW at 50%.
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SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
To be honest I can't remember. What I will say though is not that long because on the road trip I would only watch it in the app for a few minutes (maybe 10-15 tops) to make sure it didn't drastically taper so badly I would want to go back and try to move the car to another pedestal. Once I saw the taper stabilize (however low that might be) I would close the app and resume paying attention to the wife and the trip :-D
I drove down from Newport, RI to NYC yesterday and had a similar supercharging experience -- namely that supercharging taper is MUCH more aggressive than a year or two ago.
I arrived at Milford CT with 14 miles of Rated Range and (according to TeslaFi 6% in the pack) and was excited to see SC ramping up to 115 kW (score!!) and yet, in under 5 minutes, the SC had dropped below 90 kW. (boo!!) (I was the only one charging at the time, there are only 2 stalls in that particular location. I am not sure if there are other SC stalls somewhere else at this SC location, but I suspect there are not.
I supercharged for 40 minutes and gained 151 RM. I could have left after 20 or 25 minutes but I wasn't sure I would be able to charge overnight at my destination (Destination Charger congestion is real) so I didn't mind having an extra 50-60 miles in the pack -- and we were late bc we were goofing off at the rest stop and my travel companion couldn't decide what to get to eat. as usual the car was ready before we were. but that is only bc we were not in a rush.
according to TeslaFi my average kW for the SCing session was 67.3388 kW which is mot that stellar.
I remember in a perfect world the 85 kW pack was supposed to get 70 RM for the 1st 10 min, 60 RM from the second 10 min period and 50 miles for the next 10 min.. (and I think 40 miles the 10 min after that) or 130 miles in 20 minutes, 180 miles in 30 minutes, and 220 miles in 40 min. I know these figures are "ideal" I got 151 miles in 40 minutes.and I bring this up bc I may never have gotten 220 miles in 40 minutes, but in years past I have definitely gotten more than 150 RM in 40 minutes.
Now this is my own personal opinion, but I suspect that Tesla has realised that high power supercharging is worse than they thought the battery and has lowered both the top end and the average supercharging output to protect the batteries over time.
I can tell you this.. if I was in a rush, as people often are, i would have been really really unhappy. But in the end I should not complain bc again, the car was ready before we were.
I arrived at Milford CT with 14 miles of Rated Range and (according to TeslaFi 6% in the pack) and was excited to see SC ramping up to 115 kW (score!!) and yet, in under 5 minutes, the SC had dropped below 90 kW. (boo!!) (I was the only one charging at the time, there are only 2 stalls in that particular location. I am not sure if there are other SC stalls somewhere else at this SC location, but I suspect there are not.
I supercharged for 40 minutes and gained 151 RM. I could have left after 20 or 25 minutes but I wasn't sure I would be able to charge overnight at my destination (Destination Charger congestion is real) so I didn't mind having an extra 50-60 miles in the pack -- and we were late bc we were goofing off at the rest stop and my travel companion couldn't decide what to get to eat. as usual the car was ready before we were. but that is only bc we were not in a rush.
according to TeslaFi my average kW for the SCing session was 67.3388 kW which is mot that stellar.
I remember in a perfect world the 85 kW pack was supposed to get 70 RM for the 1st 10 min, 60 RM from the second 10 min period and 50 miles for the next 10 min.. (and I think 40 miles the 10 min after that) or 130 miles in 20 minutes, 180 miles in 30 minutes, and 220 miles in 40 min. I know these figures are "ideal" I got 151 miles in 40 minutes.and I bring this up bc I may never have gotten 220 miles in 40 minutes, but in years past I have definitely gotten more than 150 RM in 40 minutes.
Now this is my own personal opinion, but I suspect that Tesla has realised that high power supercharging is worse than they thought the battery and has lowered both the top end and the average supercharging output to protect the batteries over time.
I can tell you this.. if I was in a rush, as people often are, i would have been really really unhappy. But in the end I should not complain bc again, the car was ready before we were.
Have any 100kWh packs been throttled? Or did Tesla bring them to market sufficiently pre-throttled so far? Odd that peak charge speedd didn't improve between the original 85 and the present 100 which is in fact 21% larger in total capacity.
Only the 90 kWh packs have seen definitive evidence of throttling. The 100 kWh has a slightly lower peak charging rate compared to the 85, but the taper is much more gradual.
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
I think they might be changing the taper for multiple reasons. For example, on the new pack chemistry it's because those seem to be less robust both for supercharging and launches/WOT. For all other packs with original chemistry we may be seeing taper to keep the temp from getting too high on the supercharger handles.... this could be to protect components/wear or to protect Tesla from future owners who will try to sue due to being scalded by the handle... or some combo of both.
Of course all of the above is pure speculation on my part based on semi-reliable (at best) evidence presented by owners here.
I have the old 70 (not unlocked 75). I did a trip with 19 SC stops last month. For the most part, the guideline of 125 - SOC = kW +/- 7 held true. In the couple of times it didn't, I noticed that the handle was really hot. Resuming at a different stall in those cases got me back to my expected rate. I did not notice how hot the handle was when finished in the normal cases.
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