Wiki UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

Yeah. The original text I found did not have the specific stuff on the existing DC chargers. Thanks for that.

did english language change?

It literally means that every existing charger with output more than 50 kw must have contactless payment method - either per charger either per site.

Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 guidance

www.gov.uk

View attachment 1059240

However, the caveat being that Tesla can just close the network and make it inaccessible to others...

 

[Alan J]

ChargePlace Scotland are awful. They don't reply to emails. This is in the centre of Ayr. Like this for months.

Unfortunately Charge Place Scotland don't control most of the Chargers they only act as a Management Company and rely on the Charger 'owner' often the Local Authority to authorize and fund repairs, anyone familiar with Local Authority Operations will know the outcome this will have.

I raised this with the Scottish Government years ago proposing that CPS be authorized to approve repairs to avoid just this kind of scenario and got the usual 'Stupid Boy' type reply.

Complex Support Models never work especially where the relevant Local Authority Committee might not meet for months / have no funding etc

I agree that it's not a good outcome but I have some sympathy for CPS as they are playing a hand dealt by others with ultimately little control.

 

[Sean.]

did english language change?

It literally means that every existing charger with output more than 50 kw must have contactless payment method - either per charger either per site.

Public Charge Point Regulations 2023 guidance

www.gov.uk

View attachment 1059240

However, the caveat being that Tesla can just close the network and make it inaccessible to others...

also there is this one:


Would this mean that QR code/app like Tesla does now is ENOUGH? It says that contactless may be (nor that it is required) alongside QR code/app..

Contactless is the minimum. Any other alternative payment methods, as you noted, are jam on top.

Hence why companies like IONITY have fitted single standalone terminals to their sites.

 

[yessuz]

Contactless is the minimum. Any other alternative payment methods, as you noted, are jam on top.

Hence why companies like IONITY have fitted single standalone terminals to their sites.

but that is not the wording from government site!

It literally says:
"A public charge point may offer contactless alongside additional payment methods, such as an app or QR code."
Not vice versa!

 

[Andywil]

As 99% availability is also a requirement, I can see that soon Tesla will be the only game in town.
Get ready for the large queues that will follow.

 

[Adopado]

As 99% availability is also a requirement, I can see that soon Tesla will be the only game in town.
Get ready for the large queues that will follow.

I doubt that very much. It will end up like every other picked-out-of-the-air target. Warnings, time to improve, exceptional circumstances, agreements due to unachievable expectations etc etc. There will be pressure exerted, which is good, but the aim is to have more chargers online at any one time so not much point in a "shooting yourself in the foot" approach.

 

[qwickshot]

99% availability isn’t actually 99% availability. There are so many things you can exclude which includes most reasons why chargers don’t work such as vandalism and accidental damage, power supply failure etc etc.

Basically if you can reasonably attribute the reason why the charger doesn’t work to someone else, you can exclude it from the 99% calculation.

 

[GRiLLA]

but that is not the wording from government site!

It literally says:
"A public charge point may offer contactless alongside additional payment methods, such as an app or QR code."
Not vice versa!

The website is very clear that contactless is a must

they may offer contactless alongside other payment methods, that's also entire clear use of the english language.

It does state they may offer contactless OR alternative payment methods, that would be how you would express something different.

 

[m3gt2]

Newport Pagnell North is now live!

 

[yessuz]

The website is very clear that contactless is a must

View attachment 1059327

they may offer contactless alongside other payment methods, that's also entire clear use of the english language.

It does state they may offer contactless OR alternative payment methods, that would be how you would express something different.

Yes! But that's the point.

Om the same page you have the contradictions!

1) in one place Contactless is a must (as per your quote/ screenshot.
2) scroll down ans in another it says that you may use contactless alongside qr/app.

IMHO better and clearer wording would be that App/QR is allowed to be used alongside contactless.

This would mean that primary is considered as contactless and other means are suplementary/ may be used alongside

I am not native English speaker, but in my eyes the quote I posted puts contactless as supplemental to QR/App not vice versa.

 

[yessuz]

Newport Pagnell North is now live!

Still not on the app?

 

[GRiLLA]

Yes! But that's the point.

Om the same page you have the contradictions!

1) in one place Contactless is a must (as per your quote/ screenshot.
2) scroll down ans in another it says that you may use contactless alongside qr/app.

IMHO better and clearer wording would be that App/QR is allowed to be used alongside contactless.

This would mean that primary is considered as contactless and other means are suplementary/ may be used alongside

I am not native English speaker, but in my eyes the quote I posted puts contactless as supplemental to QR/App not vice versa.

There is no contradiction. It says you must have contactless, and you may have contactless alongside other methods like an app. There is no contradiction at all.

You are imagining the word 'or' in that sentence, it's not there so it doesn't mean you can have either.

 

[cezdoc]

...

they may offer contactless alongside other payment methods, that's also entire clear use of the english language.

...
Om the same page you have the contradictions!

1) in one place Contactless is a must (as per your quote/ screenshot.
2) scroll down ans in another it says that you may use contactless alongside qr/app.

IMHO better and clearer wording would be that App/QR is allowed to be used alongside contactless.

This would mean that primary is considered as contactless and other means are suplementary/ may be used alongside

I am not native English speaker, but in my eyes the quote I posted puts contactless as supplemental to QR/App not vice versa.

I am a native English speaker, although I was schooled in the 70's/80's when useful things like grammar weren't taught in state schools.
Surely clearer wording would be "may offer other payment methods alongside contactless" instead of "may offer contactless alongside other payment methods". I'm with @yessuz on this, it is not "entirely clear" use of English IMO. I'll duck out now as I gather grammar discussions on the Internet are dangerous places

The fact remains that when read as a whole the regs imply some form of contactless payment is going to be mandatory at public charge points, subject to the exclusions/lead times discussed above.

 

[Overworked]

Warning about Larkhall SC, when heading North on M74 - there is a sign on the slip road northbound today saying that it will be closed from 9 July for three weeks!

With Gretna and Abington still closed there is going to have to be some travel planning

 

[Carts850]

Gulp.

 

[cezdoc]

Warning about Larkhall SC, when heading North on M74 - there is a sign on the slip road northbound today saying that it will be closed from 9 July for three weeks!

With Gretna and Abington still closed there is going to have to be some travel planning

Thanks for the warning! I had a look at www.traffic.gov.scot - that just seems to list various M74 July single day evening (after 20:00) closures for grass cutting around Junction 8. From 8th July it says the northbound slip will be part of a diversion route but nothing I could see about multi-day closures. It wasn't the easiest list to work through though (I found the map the easiest way to navigate their list). I will still be wary though, given it's such a critical charge stop location.

 

[zexpe]

Thanks for the warning! I had a look at www.traffic.gov.scot - that just seems to list various M74 July single day evening (after 20:00) closures for grass cutting around Junction 8. From 8th July it says the northbound slip will be part of a diversion route but nothing I could see about multi-day closures. It wasn't the easiest list to work through though (I found the map the easiest way to navigate their list). I will still be wary though, given it's such a critical charge stop location.

This is the best site for roadworks in Scotland: Scottish Road Works Online

Shame this info isn’t sent to the car’s navigation system automatically. A lot of people will arrive at the junction unaware that they would have been better off exiting a junction earlier…

 

[Sean.]

Yes! But that's the point.

Om the same page you have the contradictions!

1) in one place Contactless is a must (as per your quote/ screenshot.
2) scroll down ans in another it says that you may use contactless alongside qr/app.

IMHO better and clearer wording would be that App/QR is allowed to be used alongside contactless.

This would mean that primary is considered as contactless and other means are suplementary/ may be used alongside

I am not native English speaker, but in my eyes the quote I posted puts contactless as supplemental to QR/App not vice versa.

The actual regs are unequivocal.

The web page is above is not the actual regulation, but a digestible summary - as the title suggests - it is merely 'guidance'.

"You should read this guidance alongside the regulations."

Actual regulation below:

PART 2​

Payment requirements​

Contactless payment​

5.—(1) For a new public charge point with a power of 8 kilowatts or above, a charge point operator must, within one year from the date on which these Regulations come into force, ensure that a person using that charge point is able to pay by contactless payment to charge an electric vehicle.

(2) For a rapid charge point in operation before the date on which these Regulations come into force, a charge point operator must, within one year from the date on which these Regulations come into force, ensure that a person using that charge point is able to pay by contactless payment to charge an electric vehicle.

(3) Where an existing charge point becomes a public charge point after the coming into force of these Regulations, a charge point operator must, within one year from the date on which the charge point becomes a public charge point, ensure that a person using that charge point is able to pay by contactless payment to charge an electric vehicle.

(4) In this regulation—

(a)“contactless payment” means a payment made at a contactless payment terminal using the contactless payment facility of a payment card that does not require the payer to have entered into a pre-existing contract with the charge point operator;

(b)“existing charge point” means a charge point with a power of 8 kilowatts or above in operation before these Regulations come into force;

(c)“new public charge point” means a public charge point installed after the coming into force of these Regulations.

 

[Sean.]

I did post them earlier. Maybe you should post what you think states this.

OK. See post above this one.

 

[Roy B]

I think the time may have come to create a new thread to discuss the Public Charge Point Regulations 2023. In fact, I suspect there will be no shortage of existing threads from 2023 that have hashed this all out already.