Uncorking 75Ds in the UK

[WannabeOwner]

probably even the whole EU

I read that some folk in Sweden got uncorking. That's the only one I remember reading ... but I've only read some of the multitude of threads ...

Uncorking official for most 75Ds!
Uncorking official for most 75Ds!

 

[arg]

it’s highly probable that you’ll be uncorked if you have the GEN III onboard charger on your 60D or 75D

If true, that would mean that all Model X are uncorkable, and for Model S broadly all facelift cars uncorkable, pre-facelift not.

The Gen3 charger was developed for the Model X (as it has no under-seat space for the original format charger), and was introduced to the Model S around the time of the facelift changes - possibly part of the facelift changes so that all facelift cars are Gen3, possibly as an independent change so that there could be a few cars that have one but not the other.

It makes a certain amount of sense - not that the charger itself is relevant to uncorking, but the high-voltage junction box used to sit between the pair of separate chargers and is now done differently with the single Gen3 charger.

But OTOH it may be that this is only one of the things that has to be in place for uncorking.

 

[DJP31]

@arg @JonG A UK S owner with VIN 141XXX, very early facelift, has been advised my email that his car can’t be uncorked because “at the particular time your car was built, the powertrain was not designed for an enhanced level,of performance”.

Does that add anything to the debate around fuses and splitters, all of which goes straight over my head I’m afraid.

 

[JonG]

Don know and I’m giving up speculating for now and just reading. I’ve an owner in the US that’s sent me all his codes yesterday and is being uncorked later today, that might show something.

I find the whole saga depressing, Tesla may have been building cars with a lucky dip approach to some key components that were mixed on the line. They may think they’re being helpful uncorking earlier cars who by chance had the appropriate/higher capacity bit(s) fitted but it’s making the whole thing look a shambles.

I’m hoping for those with 75s (I personally have a 90) who are being told no that it’s is a mistake, or a temporary issue. The random selection of owners being given extra performance will kill brand loyalty for those that don’t get it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Its daft isn't it, a complete PR shambles. Every time Tesla open their mouth they seem to be able to put both their feet in it. At least when my Mother-in-Law does that she's entertaining ...

 

[DJP31]

@arg This extract from a query escalated by a US owner via the My Tesla message link:

1. Are all facelift cars going to eventually be approved? -it's hard to tell, and even given the latest information regarding fuses on dual charger cars, and rapid splitter Gen III onboard chargers that don't deal with a fuse and are believed to be equipped on all facelift cars, uncorking is being treated on a case by case, car by car basis.

Seemingly some cars in the US that were initially told no and now getting a yes, perhaps suggesting it’s a controlled rollout. If that is the case what a pity that Tesla have made such a hash of the communications. I’m hoping the 100% ‘not eligible’ in the UK will start to change ‘soon’.

 

[arg]

I find the whole saga depressing, Tesla may have been building cars with a lucky dip approach to some key components that were mixed on the line. They may think they’re being helpful uncorking earlier cars who by chance had the appropriate/higher capacity bit(s) fitted but it’s making the whole thing look a shambles.

While there's no argument that Tesla have stuffed up the communications, the underlying facts are not unreasonable.

To the extent this is related to fuses, we know that original cars were fitted with a conventional HBC fuse - and those fuses were entirely satisfactory in their original use. Then, in order to get the enhanced performance for the P90DL with adequate reliability it was found that a simple fuse simply couldn't do the job (too little margin between "OK, fuse must remain intact" and "fault condition, fuse must open"), so they designed the electronically-activated fuse. When first introduced, this new fuse would have been expensive and of uncertain long-term reliability, so it made sense to only fit it on the P90DL cars that needed it. Over time, the new fuse's reliability became better trusted and economies of scale and procurement work will have reduced the price so it became reasonable to fit them more widely: probably logistical reasons made it sensible to fit them to all 90 packs fairly early on, and (we now speculate) eventually to all cars. Since the fuse (and the contactors) are part of the battery pack, and battery packs are built separately from the cars with some level of inventory of completed packs, it's not surprising that there isn't a clean VIN-number cut-off for cars having all the right parts.

So, calling it "lucky dip" seems a bit harsh.

 

[JonG]

Has anyone done the maths - the P90DL fuse was designed to increase the current limit from something like 1500 amps to 1700 amps (I'd have to check the details), are the 75 packs anywhere near that limit when uncorked?

You're right up to a point, but the P90DL battery pack went through a number of iterations, each one releasing a bit more power, but for the 75D we're seeing batteries in cars built many months apart. And either way, they should have made a hard and fast rule and differentiated the cars. 0.1s difference is small to the driver (albeit it large in the technical challenge to do so), but a whole second is mega and potentially devalues some owners cars in favour of ones which go faster. I know which I'd buy.

 

[DJP31]

While there's no argument that Tesla have stuffed up the communications, the underlying facts are not unreasonable.

To the extent this is related to fuses, we know that original cars were fitted with a conventional HBC fuse - and those fuses were entirely satisfactory in their original use. Then, in order to get the enhanced performance for the P90DL with adequate reliability it was found that a simple fuse simply couldn't do the job (too little margin between "OK, fuse must remain intact" and "fault condition, fuse must open"), so they designed the electronically-activated fuse. When first introduced, this new fuse would have been expensive and of uncertain long-term reliability, so it made sense to only fit it on the P90DL cars that needed it. Over time, the new fuse's reliability became better trusted and economies of scale and procurement work will have reduced the price so it became reasonable to fit them more widely: probably logistical reasons made it sensible to fit them to all 90 packs fairly early on, and (we now speculate) eventually to all cars. Since the fuse (and the contactors) are part of the battery pack, and battery packs are built separately from the cars with some level of inventory of completed packs, it's not surprising that there isn't a clean VIN-number cut-off for cars having all the right parts.

So, calling it "lucky dip" seems a bit harsh.

@arg thanks for this, and describes exactly the process someone has articulated on the FB forum for his P85DL, at a not insignificant personal financial cost.

 

[JonG]

Just done some dodgy fag packet maths.. A P90DL can pull about 510kw, 400V battery thats a peak current of 1275A (something isn't quite right as I've also read the peak current is 1520A but bear with me)

The uncorked 75Ds are reporting as high as 360kw with a 350V battery, thats a peak current of 1028A so way down on a like for like basis.

We can also look at the peak current per module, I believe the 90 has 16 to the 75s 14:

So current per module in the 90 is 1520/16 = 80A
in the 75 its 1028/14 = 73A - also a fair bit down.

I'm not sure I buy that its because some have the upgraded fuse thing that made it to the P90DL and later P100DL

 

[arg]

400V battery thats a peak current of 1275A (something isn't quite right as I've also read the peak current is 1520A but bear with me)

The voltage won't be 400V if you are pulling 1275A out of it....

 

[JonG]

The voltage won't be 400V if you are pulling 1275A out of it....

And it won't be 350 on a 75 - same argument

 

[arg]

And it won't be 350 on a 75 - same argument

Yes - I was mainly aiming to explain your "something isn't quite right" rather than shoot down your argument.
Your "current per module" calculation is also spurious as the modules are in series not parallel, but again not relevant to your argument.

One thing you are leaving out is that the conventional fuse to protect a 350V pack will need to be smaller than that to protect a 400V pack, even if the nominal (non-fault) current is the same, since the potential short-circuit current will be lower (the PSSC sets the maximum size of fuse you can install before it stops being a fuse and is simply another piece of wire).

I'm inclined to believe that the numbers are in the right range for uncorked performance to be possible with the new fuse and not with a conventional fuse, but it's hard to prove that for certain one way or the other.

 

[BartJ]

still no mass uncorking started in UK ?

 

[DJP31]

still no mass uncorking started in UK ?

I escalated via My Tesla and responded to my Service Centre “not eligible” email on the 24th Oct and haven’t had a response to either. The tracker seems to be showing more US cars getting uncorked, providing they are 75D’s, and I’m hoping they are rolling out gradually to Europe/UK etc.

The WARP service system is a global list, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, it doesn’t mean it’s being updated en masse. I’m taking some comfort from the range of VIN’s that are getting uncorked (I’m Dec 16 build 171XXX) and despite patience not being something I have an abundance of I’m going to sit tight and see how it unfolds over the next few days/weeks.

 

[Peteski]

I think Tesla opened Pandora’s box by uncorking some of the earlier 75s. It should have been either all or none or perhaps made it a paid upgrade for those who really want the extra performance.

 

[DAN60]

Got bored yesterday and escalated to Tesla "what are UK cars being treated differently to USA cars?"

Received a response this morning stating "My VIN does not meet the specifications required for this update. At the particular time my car was built, the powertrain was not designed for an enhanced level of performance".

No mention of actually answering my question.

Has anyone made any progress with any UK car? 60D, 60D updated to 75D or 75D? It would be great if all UK owners (who are looking for an upgrade) to keep on their service centres and MyTesla escalation for an explanation and efforts to allow us Brits in on the party...

 

[BartJ]

I asked the same question about US versus EU via MyTesla and got exactly the same answer :


The reason is at the particular time your car was built, the power train was not designed for an enhanced level of performance.

Sorry to disappoint.

I keep escalating until my question is answered...
I recommend all of you to do as well ....

 

[AMSUK]

I sent the following to [email protected] and also via the MyTesla page (I ticked the box to escalate the problem too):-

"It is somewhat puzzling that a very large number of 75Ds in the US have been confirmed as eligible for being uncorked. Plenty of these are early facelift mid-2016 cars with VINs as low as 141xxx.

As far as I am aware, there appears to be a blanket ineligibility for 75D cars in the UK, save for very recent cars (post June 2017).

Can you or someone else at Tesla please explain why this is? If you could be specific in your answer (i.e. not simply say that my particular "powertrain was not designed for an enhanced level of performance"), that would be appreciated. Is it a certain component which was used for UK cars in general, or just mine, or is uncorking actually possible and something that will be rolled out to UK customers following some sort of validation process?"
​

That was sent on 28th October. No reply yet.

 

[DJP31]

I escalated a couple of days ago and have also had the same stock response. I have politely replied pointing out, again, the US build dates that are the same as mine (12/16) and asking why my car appears to have been built to a lesser spec than others.

I have also asked, again, about whether it is just UK/Euro cars that have yet to join the upgrade rollout, or whether in fact our cars genuinely have different components. I can’t believe that is the case but who knows.

Agree with @TEH75D and @BartJ that we keep knocking on the door.