Upgraded 85D?

[Stoneymonster]

What's weird about all this is that Tesla has said nothing publicly. It's not in the release notes (I haven't checked the manual). They haven't tweeted, no blog post. If you aren't on this forum you could only discover Sport mode accidentally.

 

[arijaycomet]

What's weird about all this is that Tesla has said nothing publicly. It's not in the release notes (I haven't checked the manual). They haven't tweeted, no blog post. If you aren't on this forum you could only discover Sport mode accidentally.

Was thinking the same thing. Heck, I bet a lot of the Product Specialists selling the cars won't even be aware of this update.... very odd.

 

[llavalle]

Nothing in the manual. Just checked...

 

[rpc364]

Here is a before and after, both 8 seconds of data. I can try to figure out how to get the raw data out too maybe, not just plots, but you should be able to overlay these.

Before SW update:
View attachment 77602

After:

View attachment 77603

The speed as a function of power and acceleration definitely suggest they are squeezing more torque out of the motors. Not just an "overclocking" of the motor (allowing more current) to achieve higher horsepower at the higher speeds. TM has been sandbagging on their motors - and I love it! Brilliant! Trying to imagine how the discussion went down in the secret TM strategic planning room ... "hey - let's release the car with one set of speced motors and use the sw to limits its performance. THEN, we'll release an update in the middle of the night that unlocks more potential!" Or maybe they've adopted a Moore's Law kinda thing and will meter out 15% improvements every month...

 

[Tree95]

Just drove my car with the update. Nothing scientific - just from the "butt feeling". Was at 55% SOC for the record.
Couple of notes
-This is the first time I get a bit of torque-steer on my car.

I'm glad it's not just my imagination. There is a bit of torque steer under full power

 

[breser]

I'd say that sport mode draws more power. I did a normal and a sport launch and then drove into town. I used about twice as much energy as I usually would. However, it was raining pretty heavy this evening. I should have some better idea on energy usage next week during my commute. I've got a pretty good idea of energy usage on the way in.

 

[biciklanto]

Sorry, but I had to ask

370KW = 495hp

So how have you got 495hp out of 2x 221hp = 422hp motors that are supposedly only rated at 211hp in the S85D.
Not only that, you are well under 4secs for the 0-60 from your chart.

Now I am really confused (and P85D owners going to be pretty pissed too)

@thegruf, if you look at any of Tesla's non-US websites, they show that the motors are actually 261DIN/257SAE horsepower, front and rear. The 422 horsepower rating is lower than their combined "nominal capacity" of 522DIN/514SAE power. On the UK site, for example, they call it "motor power," and on the German site it's called "nominal capacity."

So these cars are definitely capable of putting down 370kW.

 

[thegruf]

@thegruf, if you look at any of Tesla's non-US websites, they show that the motors are actually 261DIN/257SAE horsepower, front and rear. The 422 horsepower rating is lower than their combined "nominal capacity" of 522DIN/514SAE power. On the UK site, for example, they call it "motor power," and on the German site it's called "nominal capacity."

So these cars are definitely capable of putting down 370kW.

Thanks.
Hey, that post you referrred to was <24h ago
A lot has hapened in the tesla world since then, increasing information about motor power.

 

[caps04]

I feel the torque steer too and hopefully they'll fine tune it in a future update. I'm basing it on the fact both motors being the same plus a 50-50 weight distribution, it's mechanically possible to keep it stable.

Another thing I noticed was that my average kWh has gone down quite a bit. From mid 300s to now just under 300 with the same driving conditions but a few punches at lights in the sport mode. Anyone else?

 

[chriSharek]

To those in the thread that are having P85P85+ buyer's remorse . . .

You have lead the others. You took the risk and jumped into the deep end head first. You are our pioneers and all owners after you should thank you for your early adoption.

Frankly, I'm jealous as hell that I haven't been able to get my MS any sooner! But I need to hand off my Volt to my son first . . .

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

Agree with the post above me! Guys, we're all Model S owners here: We've got the best car money can buy (in my opinion). If I were a P85 owner and saw this news, sure I'd maybe regret getting it at the time, but we've all got to realise we're leading the future of cars.

 

[justaddsun]

btw, I am 100% sure there is no real update coming for the 85D (even if TM says there is) and that it has always been 4.4sec fast (as has been documented weeks ago). Anything new felt will be placebo effect of an upgrade. I think TM is just getting out of their own way in regards to underrating the 85D originally, thinking it was smart product placement and/or to encourage P85D sales initially.

Omg, I've never been so happy to be proven completely and utterly wrong! TM put me in my place. Bow-down.

 

[AWDtsla]

Just wanted to point out a pattern here they may not be obvious to everyone. This is perfectly linear ramp means that they are purposefully limiting torque output to a single value until maximum torque intercepts with maximum power, then they hold maximum power. The torque ramp may be due to traction alone, you should try with better tires, especially since you noticed the fronts slipping. Also can we do a P85D?

 

[Johan]

Just wanted to point out a pattern here they may not be obvious to everyone. This is perfectly linear ramp means that they are purposefully limiting torque output to a single value until maximum torque intercepts with maximum power, then they hold maximum power. The torque ramp may be due to traction alone, you should try with better tires, especially since you noticed the fronts slipping. Also can we do a P85D?

Would it not be unlikely for the ramp to be that clean and linear if it was controlled by grip/slip feedback? It must be a constructed/synthetic/programmed ramp of torque, as you're suggesting until it hits maxium power. It would be cool to have that graph without traction control enabled. Would it be full torque to the wheels immideately or not?

 

[Stoneymonster]

Just wanted to point out a pattern here they may not be obvious to everyone. This is perfectly linear ramp means that they are purposefully limiting torque output to a single value until maximum torque intercepts with maximum power, then they hold maximum power. The torque ramp may be due to traction alone, you should try with better tires, especially since you noticed the fronts slipping. Also can we do a P85D?

This data came from my car. I did not feel/sense any wheel spin.

 

[AWDtsla]

This data came from my car. I did not feel/sense any wheel spin.

Try better tires anyway. Traction control from other manufacturers, let's say like ferrari and nissan, already learn and predict maximum traction to limit torque output before lots of wheelspin happens, thereby maximizing available traction. Tesla is already running apparently at nearly 33Hz which would make some level of detection and torque limiting undetectable even without prediction.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Try better tires anyway. Traction control from other manufacturers, let's say like ferrari and nissan, already learn and predict maximum traction to limit torque output before lots of wheelspin happens, thereby maximizing available traction. Tesla is already running apparently at nearly 33Hz which would make some level of detection and torque limiting undetectable even without prediction.

I'll have to leave that to others to try.

 

[falconeer]

Just wanted to point out a pattern here they may not be obvious to everyone. This is perfectly linear ramp means that they are purposefully limiting torque output to a single value until maximum torque intercepts with maximum power, then they hold maximum power. The torque ramp may be due to traction alone, you should try with better tires, especially since you noticed the fronts slipping. Also can we do a P85D?

I doubt it. The ramp is probably the transient response limit of the inverter and other power electronics. I'm pretty sure you would see a similar but steeper linear increase on a P85D.

You can try taking the car to a drag strip (with a prepped surface ) to increase traction instead of changing the tires. The P85D is not noticeably faster on a prepped drag strip, so that tells me that it is inverter limited (not traction) until it reaches max power. In fact, the P85D did 0-60 in 3.3s in the rain!

 

[rpc364]

Just wanted to point out a pattern here they may not be obvious to everyone. This is perfectly linear ramp means that they are purposefully limiting torque output to a single value until maximum torque intercepts with maximum power, then they hold maximum power. The torque ramp may be due to traction alone, you should try with better tires, especially since you noticed the fronts slipping. Also can we do a P85D?

Not a proper interpretation. This graph is power (kw, horsepower, etc.) not torque (Nm, Joules, ft-lbs). You get (rotational) power by multiplying the torque by the rotational velocity (or alternatively, force times the velocity in linear movement; or volts x amps in electrical power). The fact that the power linearly increases as a function of speed is exactly what you would expect for an electric motor with a "flat" (i.e., largely independent of rotational speed) torque curve. It peaks at 3XX kw because the power draw of the motors (or battery?) is presumably hitting its amperage/heat/electrical capacity limits. ICE horsepower curves are not so beautifully predictable as for electric motors because they don't have constant/flat torque curves, e.g., you will see the power (hp, etc.) of an ICE bend and fall off when it reaches a point where the torque curve is falling off faster than power gained by higher rotational velocities.

Sorry. Too much engineering/physics/thermodynamics education. I recognize this is not general knowledge and power, torque, and velocity relationships are not that intuitive. Offering a simplified rubric: torque is the dominant factor for acceleration (getting off the line fast, dragging, "launching") and an ability to pull things (trucks); power (hp, kw) is the determinant factor in the highest sustained speed, e.g., racecar.

Plenty of other places where this is discussed. Google "torque curve of tesla motors" for lots of fodder...

(All this geek speak aside, I bought my 85D because the engineer in me just fell in love with the marvel of what Tesla created. It is like they stole engineering plans for a car from 20 years in the future!)

 

[thegruf]

... I bought my 85D because the engineer in me just fell in love with the marvel of what Tesla created. It is like they stole engineering plans for a car from 20 years in the future!

+1

As a non-Apple owner it really is the iPhone moment in the car industry. The BMW i8 is the Windows 8, pretty at first glance but utterly misconceived.
VW/Audi may well be the first mainstream manufacturer to get there, but will they become the google?